Happy birthday George W

[FlashLackey]

That's right. The man you love to hate is a notch older today!

I suppose the scoff, moan and wise-cracks are coming. But, some food for thought as the decision regarding his replacement nears for those of us in the US:

It's cool to tow the corporate corruption, votes are bought line. I mean, how good does it feel to blame someone else for not being a millionaire?! Get enough people to agree with the idea and it's easy to imagine that you might have been a multi-business owning, charity founding, pullitzer prize winning author and olympic athlete "if only Bush hadn't messed it all up!"

Now, let's examine some facts as they are today. The DJIA is at 13,611. An all time record high. Before it is said that that only reflects positively for the top 1%, allow me to point out that that is incorrect. The unemployment level is 4.5%. A historic low. 132,000 new jobs were added in June. The latest reports show that the last few months strong numbers are actually stronger than previously thought. 190,000 new jobs in May and 122,000 in April. Reports show that salaries are increasing due to the tighter job market. Despite the leveling housing market, construction employment grew. Both manufacturing and non-manufacturing sectors show growth. Planned job cuts fell 22 percent in June. The auto industry is stabilizing. And so on... all despite a natural disaster, terrorist attack and an unpopular war.

Just some things to consider. Make of it what you will.

[gerbick]

**** him. And happy birthday.

[mr_malee]

i don't really get US government much. So you've got your big guy "Bush" then his administration, then Defcon 5 right?

I bet he got a toy nuke.

[yasunobu13]

FL and W sittin' in a tree...

[lefteyewilly]

all those stats are all well and good ...historically our economy has done great during a war....the corruption and lies are what i'm pissed about

happy fk'in birthday jackass

[FlashLackey]

assuming there were instances of lies and corruption, are you pissed because it's the status quo or because it affected you? does doing better than ever economically count for anything to you?

**** him. And happy birthday.

cheers to that. love or hate. he's the only president we have.

FL and W sittin' in a tree...

actually, im disappointed with a lot of what he has done. of course, those moments of disappointment come from the times that he did things his opposition has already been trying to do for years and will do a lot more of if given the opportunity.

In other words, the only people that could mess things up worse than Bush are the Democrats.

[TheOriginalFlashDavo]

does doing better than ever economically count for anything to you?

I have friends of mine who regard this area as the most important of all as well with regards to the Oz government.

I don't.

[MagnusVS]

I won't start to discuss whether he's a good president or not (we always ends up in those discussion FlashLackey).

But about the economic aspects: We've had several years with quite high economic growth all over the world, so Bush might not have had that big influence on the Dow. If we claimed that the leaders were the biggest reason to stock prices, China's economic politics would be the best in the world... But it probably isn't.
(Of course the politics will affect the country, but there are many other factors as well)

[MagnusVS]

By the way: He's 61 right?

[hanratty21]

I got him this...happy b'day...

[FlashLackey]

Hanratty always knows how to get to the heart of the matter.

I have friends of mine who regard this area as the most important of all as well with regards to the Oz government.

Where did I say it was the most important? Do you think it is not important?

But about the economic aspects: We've had several years with quite high economic growth all over the world, so Bush might not have had that big influence on the Dow. If we claimed that the leaders were the biggest reason to stock prices, China's economic politics would be the best in the world... But it probably isn't.

No. The numbers in China simply demonstrate that capitalism is more effective than communism.

I definitely agree that economic conditions are not always tied to an administration. But, sometimes they are. It just depends on what the legislation is. Sometimes their lack of messing with conditions that are working is something after all. When you look at the platform of those opposing Bush, it involves some radical reforms that likely would have an effect on our economy (increasing taxes for businesses, government run health care, etc).

By the way: He's 61 right?

I don't know. Come to think of it, it's kind of odd that his birthday doesn't seem to have been covered at all by the media.

[MagnusVS]

He's 61. I checked now. I read about his birthday on a Norwegian news page yesterday.

Those radical reforms may make the difference between rich and poor smaller, but it isn't sure that e.g. government run health care will have an overall negative effect. Even though it might cost a bit, it may improve the general health level and productivity

[FlashLackey]

It might. A person might be born with the ability to recite Shakespeare too. We just don't have any examples of that happening.

Besides that, why is it desirable to make the difference between the rich and poor smaller? Isn't that whole idea based on an incomplete reading of statistics? Consider the fact that, in the US, the majority of the people who found themselves in the lower 20% of income during the 1970s have since found themselves, at some point in their lives, to be in the upper 20%. If most people are finding their way to the top, shouldn't we want the top to be higher?

[MagnusVS]

You mean that people who live in countries with free health care doesn't have better health than those who haven't got access to this?

Here's just a link i found (it doesn't show health levels though):
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

I'm far from a socialist, and I think that people should be awarded for hard work. But one of the big problems is that some people are born into poor families while others are born into rich ones. Some people have physical or mentally handicaps, and one can't expect them to be able to compete on the same level as everybody else. Therefore, we need some public services.

I don't want to make this thread into a debate about taxes and public services as I guess we've discussed this before, but these are my views on this case. Many Americans are against public services, which is understandable as it's a result of your history. But as Michael Moore says: You have public services like police, fire department and army. Why not health care?

[argonauta]

I just realized that talking to FlashLackey about politics is about the same as talking to silverx about sex.

[PCRIDE]

Im just waiting for 2008... Go Hillary!

[yasunobu13]

I don't know. Come to think of it, it's kind of odd that his birthday doesn't seem to have been covered at all by the media.

That's really not odd at all. I would hope there is bigger news in the world than someone's birthday.

[gerbick]

HR, that tool doesn't need any enlarging.

And I'm never... I repeat, never parting with "Big Bertha"... never.

[FlashLackey]

That's really not odd at all. I would hope there is bigger news in the world than someone's birthday.

No. Its not like its a life-changing thing. But, they usually throw in a 5 second spot for birthdays of world leaders and some other prominent figures. I didn't see any of that.

[TheOriginalFlashDavo]

But about the economic aspects: We've had several years with quite high economic growth all over the world, so Bush might not have had that big influence on the Dow.[/IMG]

This is even more so in Australia, with the size (or lack of) of our economy. But of course, current leaders will always claim it was "their" initiatives that resulted in the booming economy! Of course, they'll then blame global influences when the opposite happens.

Economies are too entwined now for any government to claim much credit. Basically it's about not making too many mistakes more than anything else in many cases.

And yes, economic issues are important, but not over social and welfare issues. And yes, once can lead to improvement in the other, but not always, and not often enough in Australia's recent history. Will let an American give their views on internal US recent history, but externally... well, let's not go there.