Fi says adios to Flash

[lesli_felix]

I think they're spot on personally. As a games/app/widget etc developer I've always said that flash is best suited to content rather than entire sites.

There are exceptions to this, but I think the only sites that should be built entirely in flash should be promotional microsites for brands and portfolios for flash developers/digital media agencies and other creatives.

The last few big brands I've worked on use flash everywhere, but they prefer to use flash where its appropriate and where it does the job best, and that means using another technology for the structure of the site. Even the last 100% flash website I built was a promotional gig for a company that has a much more sensible html corporate and client facing presence.

It's not under threat at all, it's just that web people are getting more mature about where it's being used, and it's being used in far more places now than ever before.

[jAQUAN]

Flash will definitely still be around for a long time but I'm really curious if Silverlight will have a work on the market or not. Because I've heard a lot of positive stuff about it but I just don't see people using it, who knows...

There are plenty of discussions in the CL about whether or not flash has a future. The answer is always yes. This discussion is about how much it hurts an otherwise solid campaign.

Do the job, take the money and if they don't understand that what they want isn't that good and the page might suffer in certain fields like SEO, well, that's his problem.

What a wonderful attitude. How's business?
If a client has a $30,000/month ad spend, they should not have to hear that the cool fun way is less cost effective. By now the issue should be history.

The reason for that is because flash has a future, not that it might not without the ability to be indexed. We really should just be free to make full page flash sites at will without so much as a thought of how it will rank.

It can be done, a spider theoretically should be able to follow tab order in an .swf and collect text snapshots from the results. It would just be a bit of a monster to build. The current number of flash sites doesnt really demand the time be spent but after all, something as simple (yet complex) as an .flv gave us youtube.

[fx.barrett]

What a wonderful attitude. How's business?

Thanks for asking, you won't believe it, but it's wonderful, and you ?

If a client has a $30,000/month ad spend, they should not have to hear that the cool fun way is less cost effective. By now the issue should be history.

Everyone does whatever he wants with his money and some clients simply don't care if it's good or bad, they want it a certain way... that's when you shut and do the job without asking.

It's true that many people abuse Flash and create lots of crap web pages that are a shame to the industry but the same thing is true about the guys doing HTML just that no one talks about them... I've seen tons of crap HTML pages done but 10 year old kids, and the numbers aren't too far away from the Flash pages... everyone should do whatever he knows best and let the philosophy part the philosophers...

Take care.

[jAQUAN]

Everyone does whatever he wants with his money and some clients simply don't care if it's good or bad, they want it a certain way... that's when you shut and do the job without asking.

nonsense. You wouldn't sell someone a house without a roof unless they signed a piece of paper agreeing not to sue you. I've never met a client that wouldn't get uncomfortable around a similar disclaimer for the web.

It's true that many people abuse Flash and create lots of crap web pages that are a shame to the industry but the same thing is true about the guys doing HTML just that no one talks about them... I've seen tons of crap HTML pages done but 10 year old kids, and the numbers aren't too far away from the Flash pages...

Care to post any evidence of that? You actually raise a very good point that supports my argument. Even bad html can rank. Hypertext has simply been catered too that much. I say flash has earned the same attention.

everyone should do whatever he knows best and let the philosophy part the philosophers...

Take care.

Is that why you have a design philosophy section on your site?

[FlashLackey]

Heh. I'm curious to see where the "Arrogance level" lands at next update.

[fx.barrett]

nonsense. You wouldn't sell someone a house without a roof unless they signed a piece of paper agreeing not to sue you. I've never met a client that wouldn't get uncomfortable around a similar disclaimer for the web.

lol, come on, be serious... if you buy a car without tires, you sign the contract, are you really sure that you can sue anyone because your car has no tires ? You signed the paper when you bought it the way it was...

Care to post any evidence of that? You actually raise a very good point that supports my argument. Even bad html can rank. Hypertext has simply been catered too that much. I say flash has earned the same attention.

Ever heard of google ? Good luck with it.

Is that why you have a design philosophy section on your site?

Btw, did you daddy tell you to be so offensive ? Don't worry, I'll take your clients anyways, your tiny and ugly html site can't touch me And watch out with your Flash because it's weak...

[MyFriendIsATaco]

Plenary, you have an awful big head. Watch it around here. There's more talent swimming around than you can imagine.

[fx.barrett]

Ohh, did you come up with that on your own or did someone tell you what to reply? Just because you have a beard doesn't that you can run around giving advices on how should one be, sit down and keep it shut. If I'm be interested in your opinion, I'll as for it but if I don't ask, just keep it to yourself... Thanks.

[Frets]

Lets stay on target and stop the personal attacks.

I don't want to be giving out flashkit vacations today.

[jAQUAN]

Let him keep digging. It's funny.

[villain2]

Nope we changed the artist of the week last wednesday so Aerosmith is no longer in the code. It'll be changing again today to Korn, so no the ranking wasn't number 1.

And I think you're missing something here when you talk about making the site "twice". In order to get proper rss feeds, your content has to be scripted in a different way than displaying it in a web browser. Hence, to do PROPER rss feeds from your site's content, you have to "make it twice" as well.

OR, you could look at it as you have content in a database that can be published for html, flash and rss.

And no, your ego does not impress me so I will not "check who I'm talking to". Thanks for trying.

[Frets]

rss is such a crapshoot still with flash. Your rss could be fine and as soon as you come across a site that likes to sabotage rss and your trying to run the feed on your site your dead.

OR, you could look at it as you have content in a database that can be published for html, flash and rss.

Now that's the way do do it. Write once run everywhere.

Xoops and word press were the only portals/blogs I've ever run where I could take the rss straight into flash no fuss no muss.

[gerbick]

Try Flex. It's like 5 lines of code... tops.

Works at just about every thing RSS I've pointed it towards.

[jAQUAN]

And I think you're missing something here when you talk about making the site "twice". In order to get proper rss feeds, your content has to be scripted in a different way than displaying it in a web browser. Hence, to do PROPER rss feeds from your site's content, you have to "make it twice" as well.

OR, you could look at it as you have content in a database that can be published for html, flash and rss.

I should have clarified. When I said, "been there done that." I should have added, "And it works great." Still you're tasked with styling and/or parsing the content twice. Granted it's not the worst thing you could do to your site.

And no, your ego does not impress me so I will not "check who I'm talking to". Thanks for trying.

Suit yourself. I was just trying to save you some face. I have many leather bound books that smell of mahogany.

[villain2]

Yawn ...

Anyway, it should be noted that f-i released a few new flash sites for nintendo and a very cool fiv site for the FWA (www.fwatheatre.com). Cool stuff.

[FlashLackey]

Pretty damn solid site.

...but, does it degrade gracefully?!

[jAQUAN]

I think their new mario kart site is near perfect. Not just the execution of the UI but the solid content and cohesive experience.

[jAQUAN]

Well looky who seems to agree with me.
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2008/...awl-flash.html

[whispers]

well thats good news... regardless of who it agrees with..

[jAQUAN]

Yeah I know it's not huge news. It basically just means that crap flash sites will have less crappy rank. But great to see Google take it seriously. I can't wait until %100 of my markup is the embed tag.