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Thread: US Vice President choice thread...

  1. #241
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashLackey
    The additional Palin quote is just a re-iteration of what she already said. Not sure what the point of that was. She asserts that we should pray that our plan is in line with God's will. Not really groundbreaking in my view.
    Wow.

    The soldiers are on a mission from God. That's what was said. No revision necessary. The continuation she had doesn't stop me from thinking, are people really believing that people are killing other people in the name of God? So this is another Crusade?

    It's really amazing how people see things sometimes.

    I think that Kalnin's statements are worth looking into further. But, those aren't really comparable to what Wright has said, imo. Many in pro-life faiths, including Kerry's own Catholic faith believe that being pro-choice is a disqualifier for any public office. The other statement was ham-handed, imo. But, not in the same category as racist comments and 9/11 conspiracies.
    Let's be honest here. You will never look into Kalnin's statements ever again. You know it. I know it. You simply will not.

    There is no conspiracy. She stayed with this church for 26 years, longer than Obama... yet you question Rev. Wright and what he says in private. Yet this man questions your ability to get into heaven if you vote for Kerry. He says that if you talk about Bush, you're going to hell. And that's who had 26 years of influence on Palin.

    And that's ok. Because you back her. You support her. You don't support Obama. You don't back Obama. So you question when an ex-marine says one comment that falls out of line with you beliefs. Yet dismiss something that apparently falls in line with your thinking or policies, right? And it's relegated to conspiracy theory when some person says something like this, yet when the same rhetoric comes out of somebody else's mouth; it's a problem.

    And you don't see the dividing lines, the bias.

    Oh well. No worries. You'll have McCain in the office by any mean necessary. Since you're not affected by the verbiage since it came from a "like mind/alike type of person", it's ok.

    I seriously get your view now.

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  2. #242
    Mod cancerinform's Avatar
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    Palin is not so hot any more:
    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/...s-eroding.html
    As I predicted, FL
    So what is the difference between McCain and Bush?
    Answer: the age.
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  3. #243
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by japangreg
    Whoa, whoa, whoa - not this time: there were specific questions there, buddy - I'd like some specific answers. Where did you get the arguments you were just making?
    lol. What are you, the KGB?

    The arguments are my own. I've honestly looked through so many blogs and news sites covering this that I don't recall which pointed out what information. But, I followed up to more direct sources before reaching my position. Are you contesting that there is a web version and a broadcast version that were edited differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by japangreg
    You claimed there was a transcript - none was to be found.
    Actually, it was so easy to find that I didn't realize you couldn't find it. You quoted a large portion of it from another site. So, I assumed that wasn't an issue for you.

    Here it is: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2...5782924&page=1

    Note that they call it "EXCERPTS". So, I'm not sure what they removed from it. But, it includes the part in question that was not included in the broadcast that I posted earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by japangreg
    You claimed that she gave the same explanation in the speech he quoted - which the video shows she did not.
    Sorry. I didn't word that "claim" very well. I was meaning to say that Gibson didn't realize that she had said to pray that the task is God's will, just as she explained to Gibson. Because they cut her contention of his misquote from the broadcast, it appeared as if she was rationalizing.

    Quote Originally Posted by japangreg
    You claim that she was reasserting what she said and correcting a misquote - which she was not.
    lol. Are you serious?

    Do you typically say things like "You know, I don't know if that was my exact quote" and not expect people to think you are contesting the quote?

    Quote Originally Posted by japangreg
    Again, where did you get these "facts"? Did you make them up whole cloth, or were you just repeating something you read on a third party web site without bothering to do any checking yourself?
    I've already given you the source for the edited broadcast video. Except for the transcript which I thought you would find by googling "abc gibson palin interview". Since you were quoting the text of the interview yourself, I didn't realize that you were asking me to source that too.

    Quote Originally Posted by japangreg
    Really, I'd like to know - I'd rather not think that someone I've spent so much time discussing this stuff with would be so intellectually dishonest as to simply parrot ideas and soundbites without doing due-diligence. I like you FL, I really do - even if we are on opposite sides of most political issues - but I don't want to feel like an idiot for spending my time arguing against someone who isn't going to be honest about what ideas are his and which are just lifted.
    I'm sorry that you're taking this to the point of questioning my honesty. But, I have to call funny-like-Gallagher on this one. Conspiracy theories about why a person comes to a conclusion are not good arguments and are intellectually dishonest themselves. But, I am fully amused by the mock consternation.
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  4. #244
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick
    The soldiers are on a mission from God. That's what was said. No revision necessary. The continuation she had doesn't stop me from thinking, are people really believing that people are killing other people in the name of God? So this is another Crusade?
    She said that we should pray that our task is from God. She did not claim to know that it was. There is a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick
    Let's be honest here. You will never look into Kalnin's statements ever again. You know it. I know it. You simply will not.
    That depends. Obama's campaign already has a team of people looking into them, I assume diligently. If they find anything worth criticizing, I'm confident that it will find it's way here or to some other outlet that I follow.

    This is the exact same level of "looking into" that I gave Wright's statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick
    There is no conspiracy. She stayed with this church for 26 years, longer than Obama... yet you question Rev. Wright and what he says in private. Yet this man questions your ability to get into heaven if you vote for Kerry. He says that if you talk about Bush, you're going to hell. And that's who had 26 years of influence on Palin.
    You are mistaken. Kalnin was only at the church since 1999. She left that church in 2002. The pastor who was at the church during most of her involvement there was some guy named "Riley."

    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick
    I seriously get your view now.
    That's an interesting assertion. I'm on the fence as to whether you really don't get my view or you do and just disagree for other reasons.
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  5. #245
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    I disagree for my own reasons with you on quite a few things - usually to suss out your reasoning on most cases; however as it stands, collectively you've made yourself and your stance honestly clearer than even my own.

    So yes. I get your view now. That statement is - in my own humble opinion - more than true than false. It's not up for discussion and at a later date, I may be proven wrong. You've done that too, quite lately.

    And it's not in disgust that I state it. I just had to collectively look at things. And I just "got it". It's all good

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  6. #246
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashLackey
    Her correct quote is Christianity 101. You may find it "nutty". But, it's a sentiment held probably by a majority of Americans.
    Reports (although likely not perfectly accurate) indicate people of no theism are the fastest growing group in America. Maybe the reports are slanted, or maybe they're the tip of the iceberg. Personally I feel the larger that number gets, the faster it will grow since people won't be so afraid to openly doubt that a really good allegory is also historically factual.
    Grouping inherently defines limits.

  7. #247
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick
    And it's not in disgust that I state it. I just had to collectively look at things. And I just "got it". It's all good
    Gotcha. All good.

    Quote Originally Posted by jAQUAN
    Reports (although likely not perfectly accurate) indicate people of no theism are the fastest growing group in America. Maybe the reports are slanted, or maybe they're the tip of the iceberg. Personally I feel the larger that number gets, the faster it will grow since people won't be so afraid to openly doubt that a really good allegory is also historically factual.
    Grouping inherently defines limits.
    I can believe that group is growing. But, I'm not sure about less fear being a factor of increased growth. At least in my experience, it's been the opposite. People are more afraid of being judged for religious views in public.

    I have heard people insult religion in business meetings numerous times. I have never heard anyone insult atheism in a business meeting.
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  8. #248
    Mod cancerinform's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jAQUAN
    Reports (although likely not perfectly accurate) indicate people of no theism are the fastest growing group in America. Maybe the reports are slanted, or maybe they're the tip of the iceberg. Personally I feel the larger that number gets, the faster it will grow since people won't be so afraid to openly doubt that a really good allegory is also historically factual.
    Grouping inherently defines limits.
    Where did you hear that? That is new. I heard about 80% of people in US are seriously religious meaning they regularly go to church.

    Although I can believe (and FL will disagree...) that after 8 years Bush people have lost faith in God and must think that Bush's God or God is an alien who wants to destroy the earth
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  9. #249
    Mod cancerinform's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick
    Ok... FL. I'll ask you this.

    What do you feel about this?
    Check this:
    http://timesonline.typepad.com/usele...linked-el.html
    By itself it is interesting and shows a bit more about Lady Palin. Hoever, I don't think she has anything against black people, at leadt not when they are from a different country.
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  10. #250
    associate admedia's Avatar
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    Talk about a witchhunt...

    now the left is parsing through Sara Palin's prayers looking for evidence of christian witchcraft.

    All they are doing is justifying the rights exposure of reverend Wrights hate sermons and making reason to keep bringing it up.

    They are also making it more apparent there is a large overtly anti-christian contingent on their side... and this is through the eyes of an irreligious Jew.

  11. #251
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Where the hell were you when the "lipstick" comments came out, or the Indonesian school, or the continued rumors that Obama is muslim, et al?

    Talk about witch hunts. Seriously. This entire election is full of them. Only person that's not been hit with any so far is Biden.

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  12. #252
    associate admedia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick
    Where the hell were you when the "lipstick" comments came out,
    Definitely a low point in the McCain campaign... an absurd link to Palin

    - or the Indonesian school,
    I think it was legitimate to look at that aspect of Obama's life

    - or the continued rumors that Obama is muslim, et al?
    I haven't seen anyone here claiming Obama is a muslim or pointing to evidence to that fact other than the youtube rednecks for a laugh.


    - Only person that's not been hit with any so far is Biden.
    Interesting, Biden... Binladen. I think there is a coded message there.

  13. #253
    Mod cancerinform's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by admedia

    - or the Indonesian school,
    I think it was legitimate to look at that aspect of Obama's life
    - or Palin's fanatic religious believes,
    I think it is legitimate to look at that aspect of somebody who potentially will lead a country as powerful as the US.
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  14. #254
    associate admedia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cancerinform
    - or Palin's fanatic religious believes,
    I think it is legitimate to look at that aspect of somebody who potentially will lead a country as powerful as the US.
    Yes I think we have proven beyond a reasonable doubt she is in fact what we have suspected all along.

    ... a typical Christian.

    I would hardly call her beliefs fanatical... I think to consider her beliefs fanatical... fanatical.
    Last edited by admedia; 09-17-2008 at 10:42 AM.

  15. #255
    Mod cancerinform's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by admedia
    Yes I think we have proven beyond a reasonable doubt she is in fact what we have suspected all along.

    ... a typical Christian.

    I would hardly call her beliefs fanatical... I think to consider her beliefs fanatical... fanatical.
    I was a catholic and I know many Christians, so I would not call her a typical Christian. 80% of Americans go to church and probably call themselves Christians. If all of them are like Palin.....? Not even the pope is inviting witchhunters to predict the future.
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  16. #256
    associate admedia's Avatar
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    Ok yea since I have never been one myself I shouldn't claim to know what a typical Christian is...

    but I do know to claim she is some kind of fanatic and to continue attacking her based on her Christian beliefs is definitely a losing battle.

  17. #257
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashLackey
    I can believe that group is growing. But, I'm not sure about less fear being a factor of increased growth. At least in my experience, it's been the opposite. People are more afraid of being judged for religious views in public.

    I have heard people insult religion in business meetings numerous times. I have never heard anyone insult atheism in a business meeting.
    Interesting point. I guess it depends on what sector you're in at the time.
    That's really messed up to call someone out on their views in a business meeting. It would be equally wrong to bring ones own up during a meeting too imo. I'm openly against organized religion but there's a time and a place to get into that.
    Quote Originally Posted by cancerinform
    Where did you hear that? That is new. I heard about 80% of people in US are seriously religious meaning they regularly go to church.

    Although I can believe (and FL will disagree...) that after 8 years Bush people have lost faith in God and must think that Bush's God or God is an alien who wants to destroy the earth
    Note I did not say it's the largest group, just the fastest growing. It's estimated some %75 of American still belong to a religion.

    Also I wouldn't give Bush credit for anything, let a lone turning the religious tide.

    Also note that being against organized religion is not the same as being against faith in general.

  18. #258
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by admedia
    Yes I think we have proven beyond a reasonable doubt she is in fact what we have suspected all along.

    ... a typical Christian.

    I would hardly call her beliefs fanatical... I think to consider her beliefs fanatical... fanatical.
    I'm a Christian. Her verbiage and values are not supported by the Bible. They're supported by a smaller section; one that is not in my scope as a Christian. Killing in the name of God is not, should not be used as any justification for a war - I don't agree with that as I have been taught in my 34 years of being a Christian.

    To me, it's nigh-fanatical. And a sticking point for me.

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  19. #259
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    Isn't her church of the jesuscamp kind?

  20. #260
    Didn't do it. japangreg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashLackey
    Actually, it was so easy to find that I didn't realize you couldn't find it. You quoted a large portion of it from another site. So, I assumed that wasn't an issue for you.

    Here it is: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2...5782924&page=1

    Note that they call it "EXCERPTS". So, I'm not sure what they removed from it. But, it includes the part in question that was not included in the broadcast that I posted earlier.
    Which is the version I alluded to earlier - which I could have sworn did not have those pieces; I could be wrong, but my questions still stands: "The full transcript of the interview is on their web-site" was the assertion, as if you had seen it. I have yet to see one that is not labeled Excerpts or exists in an unsourced form on a 3rd party site.
    Sorry. I didn't word that "claim" very well. I was meaning to say that Gibson didn't realize that she had said to pray that the task is God's will, just as she explained to Gibson. Because they cut her contention of his misquote from the broadcast, it appeared as if she was rationalizing.
    Which makes more sense - the statement you made did not convey that sentiment. I still don't buy it, though.
    I'm sorry that you're taking this to the point of questioning my honesty. But, I have to call funny-like-Gallagher on this one. Conspiracy theories about why a person comes to a conclusion are not good arguments and are intellectually dishonest themselves. But, I am fully amused by the mock consternation.
    I do take this seriously - I wish everyone would. I spent far too long arguing with people who did nothing more than google my arguments and then come back with a copy-paste version of some rebuttle they found without understanding the sourcing or methods behind that conclusion; my consternation is not feigned, by the way. Perhaps you may take it as melodramitic, but I wasn't prepared to spend another minute of my time discussing issues with someone who would treat these issues as some sort of game.
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