US Vice President choice thread...

[Frets]

If your only consideration is the emotive value of a candidate do you choose the angry one or the hopeful one?

Re McCain rise. It is baffling that the quieter he is the higher his ratings are.

[cancerinform]

What about Obama's current strategy is the culprit? I'm curious to understand what you would change specifically?

I would make Obama an American patriot, a church goer who is determined to maintain family values. Obama doesn't have any wife-cheating scandals, which is of his advantage. He seems to have a healthy family and two lovely kids. He can gain important votes from some conservative religious groups who are not very excited by McCain and disappointed by Bush. That will also get him closer to blue collar workers. He will get democratic votes anyways, but that will not be enough to win. Also I think that some of the young voters (with the exception of Frets )turn away from him, because they are disappointed, since he is not keeping his promises.

[Frets]

McCain did better at saddleback if your goal is appeasing the religious right.

However as Obama was quick to point out in ads and other speeches.
Voting Republican has not changed Roe V Wade and there is no proof that electing McCain will change that.

[FlashLackey]

I would make Obama an American patriot, a church goer who is determined to maintain family values. Obama doesn't have any wife-cheating scandals, which is of his advantage. He seems to have a healthy family and two lovely kids. He can gain important votes from some conservative religious groups who are not very excited by McCain and disappointed by Bush. That will also get him closer to blue collar workers. He will get democratic votes anyways, but that will not be enough to win. Also I think that some of the young voters (with the exception of Frets )turn away from him, because they are disappointed, since he is not keeping his promises.

I see. So, my question would be, how do you "make Obama an American patriot?" What should they be doing to get across the points you want people to see? It seems like those types of things are just there and people generally decide if that is what he represents. I mean, what ads or speeches would he need to give to seem more patriotic or family oriented?

I think you touched on his problem. He has to balance between the base that gave him the nomination and now the entire country which he hopes will give him the presidency. These are two different groups. He's looking to find the formula that appeals to middle America without making the liberal base feel betrayed.

That's why I was wondering about your position on Biden. Because he seems like more of an appeal to the middle than Clinton would be. It appears that the middle hates the Clintons these days and the people who wanted Hillary for the nomination will probably still vote for Obama anyway, even though they say they won't.

However as Obama was quick to point out in ads and other speeches.
Voting Republican has not changed Roe V Wade and there is no proof that electing McCain will change that.

I would be curious to hear/read how he put pointing that out. Seems like an odd thing to do since he is apparently against changing Roe v Wade. "I definitely won't help you guys with Roe v Wade. But, my opponent won't either!"....?

[TallGuyLittleCar]

I would make Obama an American patriot, a church goer who is determined to maintain family values.

with a bucket of rev wright quotes i would not mention church.

I also think any chance of courting the religious groups went out the window with the abortion/pay grade comment.



Biden is a great middle of the road candidate. But seems, to me at least, out of step with the message of hope and change.

[jAQUAN]

McCain did better at saddleback if your goal is appeasing the religious right.

among everything else.
In case you missed it, here is a recap of the whole thing. Nm that it's all on godtube.

http://links.mkt1031.com/servlet/Mai...OQS2&mt=1&rt=0

I'm no more decided because of it though. All of McCain's answers could easily be replaced with, "what ever this audience will vote for, I don't know d*ck."
And while Obama's were some of the most politically careful, intelligent and non-exclusionary I've ever heard, I still want to hear where he plans to get the money.

The most scary thing was to realize that the religious vote still influences the future of the free world that much. If I could ask all christians two questions, they'd be:
"If the worlds most kind and giving man never heard of god, would he still go to heaven"?
and,
"Why do you need such a grand excuse to do the right thing, are you saying you'd be heathens without the goal of heaven?"

[cancerinform]

I see. So, my question would be, how do you "make Obama an American patriot?" What should they be doing to get across the points you want people to see?

It is difficult to make him a patriot in the eyes of some voters after he refused to wear a flagpin for some time. However, some negative ad on his opponent could do some trick. Show dead soldiers or sick veterans with the words: McCain does not want to get out from Irak, do you want this to continue? A real patriot wants to save American lives not sacrifice them for the wrong decision. etc.

[Frets]

This is the one thing I've noticed. 527 are pushing Obama's pro life stance very hard.
If you pull up a search on obama and abortion on youtube you'll notice an endless line of links. Mostly from conservatives.

[gerbick]

I still want to know what in the hell do people find appeasing in McCain right now... enough to give him a gain? It's not that one party is doing wrong. What is he doing right?

So far, I can only think of one thing...

[Frets]

A majority in congress with the same party in the whitehouse is oddly a rarity.
Usually when that occurs you get an abuse of power. I think the nation has already decided that the democrats will control both the house and senate.
And they are afraid of what happens when one party controls all three.

On another note did anyone catch Joe Biden's speech.

America needs more then a good soldier, America needs a wise leader

[FlashLackey]

"If the worlds most kind and giving man never heard of god, would he still go to heaven"?

Yes.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#847

"Why do you need such a grand excuse to do the right thing, are you saying you'd be heathens without the goal of heaven?"

No.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a1.htm#2126

It is difficult to make him a patriot in the eyes of some voters after he refused to wear a flagpin for some time. However, some negative ad on his opponent could do some trick. Show dead soldiers or sick veterans with the words: McCain does not want to get out from Irak, do you want this to continue? A real patriot wants to save American lives not sacrifice them for the wrong decision. etc.

I don't think people really care about the flagpin as much as some other issues. The Democrats have already been advocating what they believe are "real patriots" for some time. I think an attack ad showing dead soldiers related to McCain would be likely to backfire for Obama.

[gerbick]

I still don't get what the **** a flagpin has to do with anything.

[cancerinform]

I still don't get what the **** a flagpin has to do with anything.

In the primaries between Clinton and Obama there was a ABC News forum. One viewer asked the question, why Obama refused to wear the flagpin. Obama was winding himself to explain why but not convincing. If you carefully watch he is now wearing it all the time.

May be people here don't care, but here is a different world, which is often away from reality (which is nice too ). Reality is that many people want to see patriotism in simple signs, and words are not enough. Obama made one of the biggest mistakes at that time not to put on the flagpin. So if he starts defending his point, there MUST be an unpatriotic reason for him not to do so. That is what many people think. Together with all those islam rumors, his church problems and his middle-east middle name, his wife's statements there is great suspicion about his patriotism, which is as important as being religious.

That definitely costs him important votes and my opinion is to correct this as quick as possible, because Carl Rove is not going to wait a single minute to make use of that at the right moment.

I think an attack ad showing dead soldiers related to McCain would be likely to backfire for Obama.

That was only thought as an example.

[FlashLackey]

I think you have the flagpin story wrong. The reason why it became an issue is because he said that flagpins have become a "substitute for true patriotism".

It was more about him questioning other peoples patriotism than questioning whether or not he was patriotic for not wearing one.

[gerbick]

I seriously think that you have patriotism mixed up with fascism. Not all too surprising... verstehe?

[FlashLackey]

Here's one of the stories from when it happened: http://abcnews.go.com/politics/story?id=3690000

[FlashLackey]

I seriously think that you have patriotism mixed up with fascism. Not all too surprising... verstehe?

Me?

[If so, why? Because I offered a clarification on why something was a news story? lol

Surprising? No.

Random? Yes.]

[Frets]

Anyone see the latest McCain ad?
Apparently McCain is upset that HRC was not picked as the Veep.

I'm amused by this because of puma being called out. Which sometimes I think was missdirection controlled by republicans in democrat clothing.

[gerbick]

Me?

No. I placed the German in there as a pointer as to whom I was talking to.

Subtle? Yes.

[cancerinform]

I think you have the flagpin story wrong. The reason why it became an issue is because he said that flagpins have become a "substitute for true patriotism".

It was more about him questioning other peoples patriotism than questioning whether or not he was patriotic for not wearing one.

No, even that is making an issue out of it, stupid of him.

Here is the ABC event I meant:

http://www.therealitycheck.org/2008/...losing-it-now/