God-damn !!

[gerbick]

Mathematically proven, never touched:

quarks
gluons
quasars
dark matter
gravity
time
light (packet/wave)
other planets
water on mars
higgs boson

Do you believe in none of those despite mathematical proof and never touched them?

[deepakflash]

Its proven, so why not believe?

[gerbick]

Only in math. Not "touched"... as per your prior requirements.

What exactly is enough proof for you? Math equations? Something you can physically touch?

Then riddle me this. Why do you lose 21 grams when you die as Dr. MacDougall had measured?

That's a mathematical measure. Do you believe in souls now?

[chrismitchell]

ffs is this still going???

[deepakflash]

If there is some kind of proof then I dont find a reason to strongly disbelieve in the same.

Only in math. Not "touched"... as per your prior requirements.

My prior requirements are for those which were a "thing". Losing 21 grams can not be a "thing" and so does gravity, time etc..

ffs is this still going???

ffs?

[gerbick]

for **** sake. and you know. I'm done. I can finally tell somebody that I've tried to talk sensibly with a rock.

good luck on your endeavors.

[argonauta]

gerbs...I told you so

[silverx2]

[PAlexC]

Folks, let me atleast "try" to prove that God doesn't exist.

This oughta be good. Go ahead Nietzsche.

Now why do we believe that "something exists". Its because we are able to either see it, touch it, hear it, or feel it. If not, all the above. But if something that doesn't qualify even one of the above parameter can be termed as non-existing. So in case of God its none of the above parameter.

Ok now I can hear most of you say God is not a "thing" to prove he exists. If thats the case then how do we prove something which is not a "thing" exists? What is an example of a such a thing which is not a "thing" other than God

You really need to read up on existentialism. Please, just do it to avoid embarrassing yourself at a party. You've been talking out of your ass this whole thread, and I've done my damnedest to point you in the right direction because I think you'd find the subject fascinating given your questions.

You don't seem interested in learning, so much as justifying your anger at the hypocrisy in this world and whatever daddy issues you have. Your little "yes sir..." post pretty much solidifies your status on these boards as a petulant child.

I could tell you why I believe in God, and it won't do anything for you. You need to understand the concepts of free will and faith vs. science in order to have some perspective on the issue. The reason I know this is because you keep equating omniscience, omnipotence and omnibenevolence with direct divine intervention. You expect God to be miracles and a divine safety net, yet that's now how most sane religious people see it. You're effectively condemning all faith on the behavior of some people, what's commonly known as generalization and bias.

What you're really looking for is ammunition against people who are religious. Maybe you know some strict religious folks who are intolerant and believe you'll go to hell for not having faith, and that's unfortunate. Not everyone is like that. Your seem to be trying to justify the same intolerance from an atheist or agnostic POV. That's equally as unfortunate.

I'm pretty sure almost anyone who's read this thread will agree with most of what I've written.

And, for the record, I don't judge people who are atheist or agnostic. Because, unlike you, I try to understand the perspectives people are coming from. I have family members that, no offense to chrismitchell, have suffered even greater losses and have had their faith and world view jaded because of it. Good people don't judge or change how they treat someone based on their beliefs.

Do yourself a favor, read a few books. I give up.

[FlashLackey]

^ In such a case, I would make use of one more tool "common sense".
My eyes sends the visual to my "common sense", my common sense scans through it and rejects if the result is "undefined"

In other words, you take a leap of faith based on what you think other people will agree with. It was also once "common sense" that the world was flat.

When held to the same absolute standard you are trying to apply to religious belief, you can't prove anything that you believe either.

what would happen if all the priests,saints and believers from all over the world who have this "great faith in god" made to assemble in one large open arena and asked to do their prayers(or whatever). Inform them a week in advance that they could do any sort of prayers to help themselves except try to escape out of the arena. A huge rock ball whose diameter equals the total diameter of the arena will be rolled into the arena when they are ready.

The only thing this "test" demonstrates is how pedestrian your understanding of religion is.

There was a time in my life, several years actually, that I despised religion just as much as you do. I busied myself with thinking up all the reasons why people "fell for it" and I relished opportunities to confront religious people and question their reasons. But, as jaded as I was, I at least never ditched the value of knowledge itself as you seem to have. I studied religion and atheist thought. I read every book (and many letters, essays, etc.) written by Nietzsche and others. I suggest that you do the same. If you're going to be an ardent atheist, try at least not to be an ignorant, brazen one. Have some style about it and bring some knowledge. Or, do you want me to try and prove to you that manners and persuasiveness are appreciated by human beings?

hey FlashLackey, let me take the non-believer side, and see if I can argue against you, for no reason at all (I believe in God, but let's say I don't).

Thanks. I appreciate your reasoned response. I agree with most of what you wrote. In fact, it's exactly what I was driving at in asking deepak the questions I was. I was hoping that, by him (or her?) being forced to recognize how much of a role faith plays in everything that he believes, he might see that there is actually quite a bit to learn and understand about this subject and that his arguments are insufficient to most people who have spent any time thinking about it.

With almost everything else, you have evidence, either that something is fake or real, but you have ways to prove it up to a certain point. But God, is there any evidence that he exists?

I think that there is. It's just a different kind of evidence. To continue my little story from above about my atheist years: I eventually realized that I was full of myself and that, if I was to be completely honest in my heart, there was nothing "wrong" about the values I heard embraced at church. Just the opposite, everything that I felt good about deep down was exactly what I had heard there.

I believe that all the evidence a person needs is in their heart.

I think it's easy to lose sight of that because a lot of religious values are so entwined into society that they are no longer associated with their origins. From a purely historical perspective, Jesus was a radical figure that caused a dramatic revolution of morality. Today, many of the concepts taught by Jesus are part of our most basic laws and "common sense."

The evidence of God is in witnessing that the word of God speaks to what is true in your heart. It is to see that there is a morality that is persistent, higher than you and not relative to the interpreter.

so if I doubt the books I read, how could I based my faith in one single book, 'written by God', thinking that it has no errors, no false information....thought it was not convenient to include those books in the final edition of the bible?

Because, as a qualified mathematician can read a book on math and follow it's message, a person can follow the word of God in the bible and recognize that they are familiar, deep down, with the message. I would agree that the way that it is translated and preserved may not be 100% accurate to the letter. But, I think that the message is intact. That, despite all this time, origins in a time when methods for recording information were rudimentary at best, the message is just as relevant to life today as it was then speaks more for the Bible than it's age and origin does against.

for **** sake. and you know. I'm done. I can finally tell somebody that I've tried to talk sensibly with a rock.

lol

[chrismitchell]

can we please lock / destroy this thread as its now taking the total piss.. ffs there is no reasoning and no point to it anymore...

[Googooboyy]

can we please lock / destroy this thread as its now taking the total piss.. ffs there is no reasoning and no point to it anymore...

That isn't a mandatory rule in the T&C of posting in these forums, so.. let's see what happens.

Btw, this thread title is already blasphemous. Bah!

[deepakflash]

I am done with this loop.

What you learn form this thread so far:
God is : "faith".
Why God? : undefined
Why faith? : undefined

[FlashLackey]

More like:

answerBothWhyGodAndFaith + deepakflashListeningSkills = null

[deepakflash]

^ variables not found

[FlashLackey]

I realize that your listeningSkills are not to be found. That's the point.

But, I answered both of your questions just 5 posts up.

[deepakflash]

I answered both of your questions just 5 posts up

Oh just a sec

[deepakflash]

It was also once "common sense" that the world was flat.

Wrong!! It was a blind belief.


EDITED:

I believe that all the evidence a person needs is in their heart.

Yea, I would be so glad if you had given a nice straight clear answer(in one line) from your heart to my two "really simple questions"

[FlashLackey]

lol

Your responses are getting weaker by the post.

Your belief that a lion has attacked a zebra, if you analyze what you really know and what you do not, is just as much of a "blind belief" as the people who thought the world was flat. In fact, your belief that the world is not flat is just as much of a "blind belief" as the belief people once had that it is flat.

I did give you a clear answer from my heart. Are you seriously now trying to change your requirement for answering your questions to needing to be "in one line". I'm sorry that my multi-line answers were so daunting for you.

[deepakflash]

Your responses are getting weaker by the post.

Seriously mate, i am running out of fuel. As i said, I am already done and done.