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Thread: God-damn !!

  1. #161
    Chaos silverx2's Avatar
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    ^lies. if you had any commonsense you would stop digging the hole you are stuck in and get out.
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  2. #162
    Banned deepakflash's Avatar
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    ok guys, now lets play a fun game. The Game is called "Test of faith and belief"

    what would happen if all the priests,saints and believers from all over the world who have this "great faith in god" made to assemble in one large open arena and asked to do their prayers(or whatever). Inform them a week in advance that they could do any sort of prayers to help themselves except try to escape out of the arena. A huge rock ball whose diameter equals the total diameter of the arena will be rolled into the arena when they are ready.
    Last edited by deepakflash; 11-29-2008 at 09:40 AM.

  3. #163
    poet and narcisist argonauta's Avatar
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    hey FlashLackey, let me take the non-believer side, and see if I can argue against you, for no reason at all (I believe in God, but let's say I don't).

    First of all, I don't think that seeing is believing, as your eyes can be tricked very easily, every single piece of your body can be tricked to perceive something that is not there. Magic tricks aren't real magic, but your eyes tell you they are. Another example, some people with hipothermia can feel hot, eventhough they're freezing to death. Drink two tequilas, and the fattie sitting next to you will look hot, too.

    So, you're right, a video of a lion eating a zebra might be fake or might be real, under certain conditions. First of all, yes, you do have to have some amount of faith to explain your own existence. You have to set rules and laws to the environment you're in, so that you can understand and explain everything you 'see'. If I didn't know that there's computers, 3d, photoshop, then I how could I doubt that a video of a zebra eating a lion is not the real thing? If you go back 100 years and show Jurassic Park to the people living at that time, they'll think it's real...how could you fake a dinosaur that looks so real? So, back to the zebra-lion video, while it could be fake, I know that there are ways to prove it's right: I can go to Africa and watch something similar by myself, I know there are video sources and I could, if I wanted, try to get them. I know that a video like that is possible, because I've seen a real cat eating a real rat. While I haven't seen a lion eating a zebra, I've seen them in a zoo. And gathering all that info, I know that even though there's a chance that a video like that is not real, it's more probable that it is, based on all the knowledge I have about the content in that video. Based on the same concept, I know that the video of an alien has more chances to be fake (eventhough it can be real) so I choose to think that it is a fake.

    And yes, I have to believe in one of those two options (fake or real), because it's very difficult to prove which one is right. And if I want to prove it, I'll end up doubting my own existence, because most of us know nothing about everything, except for what you're told by somebody else, or read in books. You trust the people that teach you, and the books you read, but you know they can be wrong....when I was a kid, I read that Pluto was a planet, now people are telling me it is not? I was taught that all the physics in the world could be explains with Newton's laws, and know people tell me that it's not the case all the time? There are concepts in mathematics that I have to trust (what's pi, why is it 3.14, how can a number never end, why is it not 2?) eventhough I can't prove they're right. So, yes, my world exists due to faith, but it's a bit different with God.

    With almost everything else, you have evidence, either that something is fake or real, but you have ways to prove it up to a certain point. But God, is there any evidence that he exists? is there any evidence that he doesn't exist? I think there's none for either side, but also based on the idea that usually the easiest explanation for something is usually the correct explanation, most of the nature and behavior of what God is supposed to do can be explained by physical, bulletproof, more logical facts that do have evidence. There's no video, photo, or proof that God exists. There's no evidence that he doesn't exist, but it's more probably, and more logical...so why would do people choose to believe in God and not in aliens? Even more, most of the explanations of the supernatural nature of God is contradictory. We can explain the behavior of aliens and UFOS better than the behavior of God...so, if you believe in God, and you're a bright reasonable person, I assume you also believe in aliens?

    And the same goes for the bible....I don't think there was one single book that I used in highschool that didn't have a typo, or a factual error, or that presented some sort of subjective info, and also, there's a lot of 'facts' that I read in books, that now are proven wrong....so if I doubt the books I read, how could I based my faith in one single book, 'written by God', thinking that it has no errors, no false information....even more, when that book is a collection of books written during a couple centuries, translated and over translated, and that there's reasonable proof that the new testament was not written by actual witnesses, and that there's a reasonable doubt because there are other books which challenge the whole bible, which were at one point part of the same collections of books that form the bible, but somebody, or a lot of people, thought it was not convenient to include those books in the final edition of the bible?

    I think that if I had to doubt God, I'd do it because how could I believe in an all powerful, always present being, if we, the human race are very close to be at the level we think he is at. He created life? I think that in a few years we'll be able to do so as well...he can be everywhere, at any time. We are like 1% there with technology, and probably in a couple of centuries, we'll be able to track everything in this planet. We can perform miracles...I think that we're very close to perform any kind of 'miracle': resurrecting the dead, magically cure you with the power of modifying your dna, moving thing from china to australia in a second, etc. (that very close is probably a few centuries, but it's possible). If we will overpower God, then maybe God doesn't exist, and it's just a concept of everything we can't understand yet, but will someday, and that'll be the day God dies.
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  4. #164
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepakflash
    ok guys, now lets play a fun game. The Game is called "Test of faith and belief"

    what would happen if all the priests,saints and believers from all over the world who have this "great faith in god" made to assemble in one large open arena and asked to do their prayers(or whatever). Inform them a week in advance that they could do any sort of prayers to help themselves except try to escape out of the arena. A huge rock ball whose diameter equals the total diameter of the arena will be rolled into the arena when they are ready.
    Your test truly needs work. This doesn't test a believer in the slightest sense.

    You've equated prayer and placebo. Which... honestly an atheist would do.

    How about this. Prove to yourself that God cannot exist.

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  5. #165
    poet and narcisist argonauta's Avatar
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    Gerbick, discussing the non existence of god needs an intelligent person for it to be somehow productive, and rational. You're asking too much.
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  6. #166
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Fine... since you're talking, I'll play devil's advocate. Let's say that God does not exist, and science reigns supreme.

    With that said... all of the matter in the universe has never been explained as to how it become to be. Big Bang, Big Bounce... the nigh-algorithmic chaos and entropy that ebbs and flows in macro and micro environments, from molecular to subatomic... there seems to be a sense of patterns if you know how to look at them.

    Is there a driving force behind the patterns? If so, is it algorithmic, is it a prime number we've yet to get to... or does positive and negative infinity (infinite big/infinite small) have some limit that is so incomprehensible that we would be better off just assigning a letter to it to represent how fast, vast, or small it is.

    Oh wait. We do that. C = speed of light. ∞ (a sideways 8) equates to infinity. π (pi) equates to a never ending, naturally occurring sequence that lends itself well to circles. ϕ (phi) is the golden ratio... yet I don't see any doubt cast to their limits, existence or boundaries.

    So it takes a formula to prove them. Like I said earlier... it took almost a century to prove E = mc2 (theory of relativity)... and yet people taught it in schools, universities, etc. for that hundred years like it was truth.

    Now... to draw some parallels... people spoke the gospel like it was the truth. Even wrote it down. No proof was given for most, if any of what was being said. But people believed.

    Seriously... the parallels of higher science and faith are pretty damn the same to me. Some things will never be proven. People built atom bombs from a potentially flawed equation. Nuclear plants from a potentially wrong equation. So... a society based on an unproven religion that just says - at its basest of statements - that we should be as kind to others as we want them to be to us - the Golden Rule - then it's not all bad.

    Sure, bad things happen in the world. Explain the bad things, excuse them, look away, do something about it. Just like bad things will happen in science... like a better virus being created out of curiosity. Or never finding the cure for AIDS or cancer. Or the destruction of a city or two.

    Same things/rules for religion. It's not all good. Neither is humanity.

    And I'm not a conflicted person... I believe in both science and religion.

    But seriously. Explain to me why I shouldn't believe that God doesn't exist. Prove beyond a starving person in a picture - don't want that person to starve any longer, go there, sponsor that person. I did it for 4 years with a family - until their oldest one went to college and he took over. And I did it directly with the family.

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  7. #167
    poet and narcisist argonauta's Avatar
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    wait, you confuse me? questions with two negatives are difficult: "Explain to me why I shouldn't believe that God doesn't exist"...does that mean you want me to prove why you should believe god exists, or why you should believe he doesn't?
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  8. #168
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Exactly.

    Why should I believe you when you can't explain yourself.

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  9. #169
    poet and narcisist argonauta's Avatar
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    you don't need to believe me, because I don't know what I'm talking about either.

    But you can listen to what I have to say, and after that make your own conclussions, because someone doesn't need to be right for you to hear them and get the right answer out of that.

    You can't believe me? what if I wrote a book, would you then?

    I don't need to explain myself. I don't need to defend a god that if he doesn't exist, I'd be wrong to defend, and if he exists, he could defend himself or probably has better things to do.

    You make me sick, you you, Adriana Lima hater.
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  10. #170
    poet and narcisist argonauta's Avatar
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    On another topic, what do you know about what's good? is killing a man good or bad?
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  11. #171
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    And this is where I always tend to fail myself. I like to either be: right, proven wrong, or learn something.

    Everything else is a waste of vocal cord vibrations and finger motion. You've made up your mind a long time ago.

    </devil's advocate>

    Bah. I don't hate Adriana Lima. Just find some other women much, much more psyc... I mean hotter.

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  12. #172
    poet and narcisist argonauta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick
    Everything else is a waste of vocal cord vibrations and finger motion. You've made up your mind a long time ago.
    uhhh, if dee dee told me that, I would be in heaven....mmmmhhh finger motion and vocal cord vibrations...

    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick
    Bah. I don't hate Adriana Lima. Just find some other women much, much more psyc... I mean hotter.
    good, because Adriani Limi is mine, so if I ever see you trying to get to her, I'll pray and pray until my friend Jesus goes to your house and kicks your ass...btw, Jesus Montes, the best puertorican hitman you can hire for $100.
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  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by argonauta
    On another topic, what do you know about what's good? is killing a man good or bad?
    Some people deserve killing. Just not over flat screen televisions.

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  14. #174
    poet and narcisist argonauta's Avatar
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    yeah, though I think it's more ironic to die while attending a religious festivity
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  15. #175
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by argonauta
    uhhh, if dee dee told me that, I would be in heaven...

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  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by argonauta
    yeah, though I think it's more ironic to die while attending a religious festivity
    Irony... or a showcase of when humanity goes very wrong?

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  17. #177
    Mod cancerinform's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepakflash
    If "we are all" children of god then why does he love to see this children suffer? Why does he love to see innocent babies and women get killed? Why does he love to see his children begging on streets? And yet, why do people say he is kind and exists?

    To all those believers, what makes you think he is kind and exists?

    I would be surprised if I get an answer that is genuinely convincing.
    I don't care God exists but if it (he or she or anything) exists it watches life on earth like a comedy or tragical movie in TV (HD TV now) without interfering. It is not kind nor cares about what happens. It must be pretty amusing to watch life on earth like some poor handicapped fellow being hit by a truck.

    God is a sadist.
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  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by cancerinform
    I don't care God exists but if it (he or she or anything) exists it watches life on earth like a comedy or tragical movie in TV (HD TV now) without interfering. It is not kind nor cares about what happens. It must be pretty amusing to watch life on earth like some poor handicapped fellow being hit by a truck.

    God is a sadist.
    Thanks for feeding the kobold.

    Now, as it stands, enjoy that beautiful new television. I'm sure it does HDTV.

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  19. #179
    Mod cancerinform's Avatar
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    Of course, it's one of the better ones with high resolution. We are immigrants. We save before we spent. We don't know the word recession.

    Probably God bought it's TV long time ago. It should get a coupon from the government for a converter box
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  20. #180
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    I don't buy anything smaller than a car unless I have the money at hand. Something that my parents taught me, it's not unique to immigrants.

    My point, is that you are not really making any statement that truly does nothing but oppose calm conversation... back up your statement.

    Do you know if God even watches us? I'm still stuck in devil's advocate mode. So prove to me that he does exist, thus would qualify as a sadist.

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