Top down space shooter: Game play questions

[justkevin]

I'm working on a 2D shooter where the player controls his space ship from a top-down perspective. The player can rotate the ship and use thrusters to accelerate. The view is always centered on the player's ship, so all motion is relative.

Two questions about what would be best from a user experience perspective:

1. Should the ship's main gun always fire forward, (as in Asteroids), or should the player be able to control a turret with his mouse (as in Etherwar)? The former is a simpler and easier control scheme, the latter offers more freedom of play (the player can both evade and attack at the same time).

2. How should momentum be handled? Option 1 is that the player stops as soon as the forward key is released. Option 2 is that the player slows down and eventually stops when the forward key is released. Option 3 is that the player does not slow unless the reverse key is pressed (i.e., "real world" physics).

Additional points that may be relevant: The player's ship will represent a large ship more like Galactica than an X-Wing. The player will acquire various power-ups that will require additional attention/controls (shields, missiles, warp escape, etc).

Finally, in the domain of top-down space shooters, what games do you think are "best in class" that I should look at for inspiration?

[Squize]

I feel your pain on the control method mate.

I'm currently doing a Asteroids clone, and I've been posting the progress on our blog ( http://blog.gamingyourway.com/Catego...ry,Xtreme.aspx ).

The control method has been torn apart by a lot of people, and I've cracked and I'm going to offer multiple options, from the current GWars style keys and mouse one, to 8 keys, 4 to move, 4 to shoot ( I'm not going to support actual asteroids style movement, which could well be weird for an asteroids style game, but it's another re-write of all the movement routines and the game will play a lot differently that way. Then you get the whole "But he used those controls" in regards hi-scores. It needs to be a level playing field, or you're going to the lengths of a separate leaderboard for every control type, which is just mental ).

Anyway, I didn't post the link just to whore myself, there are some great comments in there from people with some more alternative ideas for control methods, could be worth a read.

As to the other two points... check out Morpheus on the C64 ( If you've got the original disc before you d/load the rom etc. etc. ), that was written by the author of paradroid / uridium and in that you control a large ship moving over a starfield, and it played a treat ( It's yet another game I want to do in Flash one day ).

Squize.

[justkevin]

Nice, I like your textures. Did you do the artwork yourself?

Do you feel more people prefer the "cardinal" style controls (or however you call the control scheme your game uses) as opposed to the "thrust" style controls?

[Squize]

Thanks, but no, most of the art is place holder. The planet texture is of Mars. The final game will look at least as good, otherwise we'll have screwed up badly ( I won't be doing the art. Look & Feel is as far as I can go, then it all goes down hill from there ).

As to the controls, I thought in general people liked the GWars / Twin stick but-with-a-mouse control, it's fairly standard, but as the blog comments show there's a lot of anti that method replies.

Now I'm not sure if this is an old / young divide or not, in that a lot of the "GWars control is nasty" are older gamers, people who remember Asteroids first time around and it may have just jarred with them, I don't know to be honest.

I personally much prefer the GWars approach, it allows for a lot more control, Asteroids style movement relied too much on the movement itself to be a gameplay element ( Taken to it's natural extreme with games like Thrust ) and that to me just clutters up the game.
It's like those old style horizontal shooters where the first couple of power-ups you got just gave you the fire power and speed you should have started with any way, it's an almost lazy way of trying to make the player feel like you've added some extra value to the game ( And fine back in the day, but now a lot less so ).
If you're making a game harder to play for the reasons of movement, then the movement should be the key point that everything else is built around, such as a balance game on WiiFit, but if you're making a game where you shoot the crap out of big rocks, then movement should be as easy and helpful to the player as possible.

Squize.

[ColbyCheeze]

I like the points you've made Squize...good things to consider.

[Squize]

Thanks CC

Squize.

[PRadvan]

After playing around with different controls, I went with this one (my favorite):
http://www.philip-radvan.com/stuff/m...-nav-test.html
WASD/Arrow keys to move
Click and hold mouse to shoot

Then there's this one, also kind of works:
http://www.philip-radvan.com/stuff/m.../fpo_main.html
WASD to move

And everyone's least favorite:
http://www.philip-radvan.com/paralla...lax_v048b.html

I hope this helps you see what works/what doesn't or at least gives you a push to try something else instead of wasting time.

[PRadvan]

Found another control system I had laying around: http://www.philip-radvan.com/fpo/

Also fixed some issues with this one (still my favorite): http://www.philip-radvan.com/stuff/m...-nav-test.html

So which control systems do you guys like best?

[tidenburg]

You should really use what you think your target audience will prefer and not use your own preferences. If your going for the casual crowd then apparently it's generally best to stick with either the mouse or the keyboard exclusively and not mix them together.

As for movement, i've always prefered it slowing after the key is released in space shooters but not to the entent to which some asteroid games take it. At max they should stop in 3 seconds, that way the momentum isn't intrusive but still makes it feel more "fluid".

Again, these are all personal preferences, so take them with a grain of salt.

[renderhjs]

or offer like 3 control shemes one can choose from in the options

[TOdorus]

I think this depends on the situation. If your ships are more of the fast agile fighter type I'd prefer the keyboard control with fire directed at the front as I need to concentrate on my own ship more to dodge enemy fire. If your ships are more of the slow bulky artillery/capital type I'd prefer the keyboard with mouse, as dodging is less of an issue, but directing fire is.

[PRadvan]

I’ll have to agree with you tidenburg, I always disliked the asteroids control scheme where the ship the just kept going and going. I know that’s how objects would behave in space, but that doesn’t mean it makes for fun game play. Sometimes you have to sacrifice realism for game play.

Offering more than 1 control system is a lot of work, and it raises the “he used this control system, so he cheated” argument. Since we’re talking about browser based games, there’s usually a highscore involved or some sort of ranking system.

TOdorus, I think you make an excellent point.

[justkevin]

Found another control system I had laying around: http://www.philip-radvan.com/fpo/

Also fixed some issues with this one (still my favorite): http://www.philip-radvan.com/stuff/m...-nav-test.html

So which control systems do you guys like best?

I like your favorite the best as well.

[PRadvan]

Another space shooter topic I would like to get your guy's opinion on: RPG elements.

How deep do you think you can go before it becomes too complicated (think Eve Online) or too simple? (think Asteroids)

Which features would you borrow from Eve (or any other RPG) for a top down space shooter with RPG elements?

[Squize]

Asteroids, too simple ?

Squize.

[PRadvan]

Asteroids, too simple ?

Squize.

In terms of RPG elements! <3

P.S. i read the comments on your blog, and people brought up good points about space shooters. The conclusion that I came to is that it's almost impossible to please everyone. So just go with what makes you happy?

[tidenburg]

Popcap put a presentation on the net a while ago with these sorts of questions in it. It's might be a bit simple for ya' but I can upload it when I'm back from College.

[Squize]

"So just go with what makes you happy?"

I normally do, just every now and again I worry that I'm making choices due to my ego rather than doing what's best, so I thought I would be more receptive ( Although as you can see from the comments it has back fired slightly ).

I think it was the almost universal "We hate that control method" that made me think, as there's always something wrong with everything ( For example I was told last night the transition takes too long ), but for lots of people to say the same thing, and all of them people who I respect when it comes to game dev, well it carries some weight.

tidenburg post it up mate. I know Popcap are looked at as being "developers for middle aged women" by a lot of people, but they really nail usability, gameplay and presentation. They shift an insane amount of games, so it's fair to say they do a lot more right things than wrong ones.

Opps, taken over this thread slightly, sorry Kev.

Squize.

[tidenburg]

It's basically just a FAQ/Guide on how to leech to casual gamers with gameplay styles etc, but when I first got it the content was really useful (to me at least), especially the score giving parts.

Link:
http://www.insite-world.com/Jason_Ka...urope_2006.zip

[PRadvan]

Thanks for sharing that. Yes, some points are obvious but when you combine everything it makes for a good read. I like that "Blood wars" example too