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Thread: Wikileaks leaks and US government is embarassed

  1. #1
    Mod cancerinform's Avatar
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    Wikileaks leaks and US government is embarassed

    My opinion: What is said behind closed doors from one person to another, as long as it does not involve to commit a crime it should not be made public, since that is part of diplomacy.

    What do you think?
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  2. #2
    Custom User Title Incrue's Avatar
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    If the govern's goal is to serve the people, they should have nothing to hide.
    IF

  3. #3
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    There is a vast divide between the average citizen and someone who's been vetted and backed by a lifetime of honorable public service as far as being entrusted with certain information. It's rather arrogant to assume that just because you pay taxes, you're entitled to full disclosure.

    I've met some of the top brass serving our nation and their mere presence makes you well up with pride. The idea that they are somehow subverting our liberties by participating in privileged conversations is the height of arrogance. If these warriors don't feel you should be privy to what transpires, they have a damn good reason.

    There is a very fine line between bringing crimes to light and aiding and abetting. I doubt wikileaks has carefully measured that line and is carelessly throwing sh*t at the wall and hoping something good comes of it. Its negligent, potentially harmful and ironically shows less respect for their fellow americans than is claimed. These guys are not Daniel Ellsberg.

  4. #4
    Flashkit historian Frets's Avatar
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    Vetting doesn't mean people are somehow immune to corrpution and deciet. Benedict Arnold was a model Leutenient before he switched sides.

  5. #5
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    david petley's Avatar
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    I think that the US gov't needs to focus on finding whoever is behind the leaks in the first place, and stop focussing so much on the publishing of the leaked documents. Time to start kicking some employees' butts into jail, rather than trying to shoot the messenger.

    davidp
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  6. #6
    pablo cruisin' hanratty21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jAQUAN View Post
    It's rather arrogant to assume that just because you pay taxes, you're entitled to full disclosure.
    Agreed 100%, though arrogant may be a colossal understatement.
    "Why does it hurt when I pee?" -- F. Zappa |

  7. #7
    Custom User Title Incrue's Avatar
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    If these warriors don't feel
    These what!??
    Oh man, you keep kissing the govern's ass like this and sooner or later you will be forced to do something stupid, like fight some useless war based on lies of mass destruction.
    Oops, this is already hapenning!
    Well, thanks God i'm not american.Good luck!

  8. #8
    pablo cruisin' hanratty21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incrue View Post
    These what!??
    Oh man, you keep kissing the govern's ass...
    The warriors he's referring to are not the govern's (as you say)...don't confuse the two.

    Secondly, what is this trend of people needing to abbreviate every single word? Govern's? Seriously? Was it going to be that tough to type m-e-n-t? Thank god you are not an American, indeed.
    "Why does it hurt when I pee?" -- F. Zappa |

  9. #9
    Custom User Title Incrue's Avatar
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    Thank god you are not an American, indeed.
    Yes, definately.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGfeWpM2MqM

  10. #10
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    Conducting a war and starting one fall under different departments. I'm just as disgusted with this illegal war on an idea as the next american but I couldn't be more proud of how the majority of our military carry out their orders.

  11. #11
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    What I don't get... and I don't mind being corrected... is that how is this accountability when it's largely non-diplomatic stuff being leaked? For instance... Coca-Cola did business with both Nazi Germany and Apartheid South Africa... did it hurt their sales or image?

    In this case, the stuff being leaked out, while sensitive, looks like a who's who of bad stuff said behind closed doors - not all, but some. It looks like gossiping in some cases.

    But ultimately, what do people get from knowing this stuff?

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  12. #12
    N' then I might just
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    david petley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
    But ultimately, what do people get from knowing this stuff?
    In the case of some leaks, perhaps a different view of diplomats? Maybe it will make the diplomatic path gritty instead of smooth.

    If one were to kiss an ass in public, and then describe the kissed as a moronic pipsqueak with bad breath in private, and later have that disclosed, it might affect future discussions.

    david
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  13. #13
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Who trusts any government to begin with?

    I view a lot of this as high school cheerleader gossip. Who cares if somebody says some pipsqueak has bad breath (for instance)... gift that person with a Sonicare and some mouthwash.

    [ Hello ] | [ gerbick ] | [ Ω ]

  14. #14
    N' then I might just
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    david petley's Avatar
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    this guy sees it a bit differently -
    http://www.redroom.com/blog/earl-mer...eaks-info-dump

    Let's consider just one example cited in the Wikileaks: a briefing by the Pakistani internal security to a select group of Paki legislators from which a "sensitive" statement was quoted (or paraphrased, I'd guess) in a State Department report. Among other tidbits, this provides a date and location/venue as to when and where the statement was made, and likely a list of names as to who was present therein.

    Pretty inconclusive so far, I'll admit... but let's say that one has the inclination to walk the cat back to create another list-- this one, say, of who met with/talked to Islamabad-based State Department diplomats between the date of the briefing and the date of the leaked memo, using either official "contact-report" records or even covert surveillance logs.

    The result is a second list of names to be Venn-diagrammed (actually, by computer; you don't want to miss the fact that a briefed official has a brother-in-law he maybe used as a cut-out, eh? There are some really cool logarithms involved here, fer shure!)

    Multiply this exercise a few times, and the same names will start showing up on the various lists. Aha! --you've refined a nice little manageable list to be subsequently cross-hair'ed and/or invited in for the various levels of interrogation most favored in your country and culture.
    No longer a Flashkit mod, not even by stealth

    Insanity is just a point of view. After all, the world looks pretty normal through your own underpants.

  15. #15
    Mod cancerinform's Avatar
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    Some of the stuff, which was leaked is something like this:

    Ambassador soandso stationed in the country A gives his view of foreign minister soandso back to the US. He collected his information from talking to a number of sources. The view is that the minister is not very capable. One of the sources was a party member of the minister. Officially country A is an ally of the US. Normally nothing would happen. The relation between the two countries is not changed. However, now Wikileaks makes the documents public. And now all people involved have problems including the party member, for whom a search is started. Happened so to the German chancellor, the foreign minister and the US ambassador in Berlin.

    It is as simple as that. Such documents don't belong to the public. Germany is a stable democracy and a stable ally of the US and some individuals cannot change that so easily. However, the relation between the two countries has done some harm because of that. Now imagine the volatile relations in Asia and the middle East. It can cost people's lives and can cause wars. We don't want the total transparency. It is like facing each other and telling the total truth. No country, no business can function properly under such circumstances.
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  16. #16
    Flashkit historian Frets's Avatar
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    The entertainment business seems to be operating qute successfuly under those circumstances.

  17. #17
    Flashkit historian Frets's Avatar
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  18. #18
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    Disagrees with what? I don't have the time to read or watch that link atm.

  19. #19
    Senior Member random25's Avatar
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    "In a free society, we are supposed to know the truth. In a society where truth becomes treason, we are in big trouble." ~ Ron Paul

    If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. Carl Sagan

  20. #20
    pablo cruisin' hanratty21's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who's bored to tears with Ron Paul?
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