Can you will somebody to be sane?

[gerbick]

Seriously. Stupid question of the day... and dammit, it got me thinking.

Background: Friend of mine used to date a really cool woman. As his friends, we (our "inner-circle") all approved of her, and he had like 2 years of easy-going peace and quiet with her in a relative good relationship. Along came the economy - she lost her job and has been out of work for the last 6 months - and living with him until she can get a new job. It's eroded something away from her self-worth and now lack of self-esteem is a daily battle in their relationship.

Dilemma: Him having a job is a problem - but he works in a relatively essential position with the US Gov't. She makes him feel bad for having a job sometimes in a very roundabout way - the "inner circle" has stopped that line of thought with him... not his fault he has a job and she doesn't. A guilt-trip plain sucks. And she's giving him one. So he's now taken on the mantle of trying to get her to be "more sane".

I've said don't do it. She'll resent you (him) because she needs to get back what she lost on her own. And invariably sees things differently than she does.

Question: Can you actually will somebody to be "more sane"? I say hell no. I've had my share of psychos, unhappy women... and good women. It could be considered just genetic; however it's more than likely it's just their disposition and how they were raised, see themselves... and other variables.

What say you lot? I'm telling dude to run. Run hard.

[flashpipe1]

Tough call...insanity can come...and, it can go. I've seen it happen first-hand in the not too distant past.

When someone has a life changing or character changing event (loss of job, family/friend, divorce, major birthday, etc.) it's amazing how that can affect their character, give them pause on their entire past and affect how they deal with life and everyone around them.

There's NOTHING that your friend can do to change her mindset. He basically has two choices:
1) bug out and look for someone else who may/may not eventually go through the same thing, have lots of other unknown character traits, flaws, good traits, etc.
2) stick around being the good guy, taking the high road, remember to be proactive for himself and NOT reactive to her...and hope that she eventually comes around to realize that things aren't so bad, that life does go on and everyone changes, evolves and moves on.

Really tough decision to make and I don't envy anyone that choice. Sort of have to weigh the options...has the relationship (overall) been happy enough to warrant waiting for "sanity" to return? Is the current situation even livable? There is the option of moving out, taking a break and seeing if things get better with some distance...

Anyway, not sure that helps much, but sanity can't be "fixed" by anyone except the person who's insane, and they can only fix it if they can address it and be open enough to recognize it and try to overcome/adapt...

We should all just get dogs and become celibate...I blame all our troubles on the penis...

[atRax]

She only have to prove herself of what shes worth and be good at it.. like anybody.
She is relying on him while she need to be more individual and find herself.

Doing nothing at all to save her own situation gives a good look on how she cares for others.

I guess its a show and prove on what he wants.

[silverx2]

if things were good and the only thing that changed is she lost her job, then all the ***** needs to do is start working again and she should become sane.

[david petley]

It is a big leap, from depression to insanity...is she really not sane anymore?

"used to date a really cool woman" ...sounds like somewhere, someone has made a decision that he is now not dating a really cool woman anymore.

What sort of roundabout ways does she use to make him feel bad? Is it all her baggage? I think if the relationship has gone on for 2 years, then the fact that life situation has radically changed for one will affect both parties to some degree.

Can she see how her actions are affecting him and their relationship, has he discussed it with her at all? Does she need some counselling?

I think too little information for people who don't know them to offer meaningful advice.

david

[gerbick]

ok... to further explain. by "sane"... she's bat**** insane. it's far past depression, it's into unknown regions now.

from his point of view, her job validated her. it's no longer there, so it's an odd situation.

[jAQUAN]

I agree with flashpipe in that sanity can come and go. The sense of worth a paying job brings can be hard to handle when its gone. When I first moved out here work was scarce and that coupled with the brand new environment really put me in a slump.

Will, when defined as "really really wanting" doesn't exist. When defined as, "acting as if its already a reality" actually does have a positive effect. Not in the way "The Secret" claims with its magnetic attraction to goals, but in that it provides a sense of success and security that things really aren't that bad.

There's no single silver bullet fix though, different astrologically signed people respond differently. Leo's for instance hate hearing, "Oh it'll be ok." while others need exactly that.

Any fix however, is Pavlovian. Any action or inaction that conveys the idea that it's OK to act out on others instead of coming to terms with shame only fuels the situation. It gives form to a problem that does not exist.

I've learned from enough trial and error that coddling does everyone a disservice. If your friend is supporting her actions by letting his fear of a break up dictate his, he might as well add a third person to the relationship. It's really that useless.

Be a man, call her on her bullsh*t and let her know you don't think any less of her. She just needs to know she's an equal in the relationship.

[gerbick]

Be a man, call her on her bullsh*t and let her know you don't think any less of her. She just needs to know she's an equal in the relationship.

I'm sending this to him directly.

I think the problems are deeper... and he's enabling her by not saying anything.

[argonauta]

even if she goes back to work, and recovers her sanity...it's weird that what you think of yourself depends on what you do, and not who you are. The next time something unexpected happens to her (she gets fat, pregnant, old) she's going to be unhappy again...if she's not sane, they should seek professional help...sometimes just talking to somebody (psychologist) can help a lot. If she's not willing to admit she has a problem, then it doesn't matter what anyone tells her, she won't change.

[gerbick]

Well... after my last post to now... I've even heard more. She apparently goes to therapy - nothing is wrong with that, has a couple of meds - as long as they work, that's fine too... and has had a history - that's the part that even he was not prepared for.

Yeah. Apparently there's a deeper back story to this than even he knew.

Sad part, I was in his place last year. We still communicate, but I had to dead-end our relationship on the spot once stuff hit the fan - for the tenth time. This year... meh, the sane one just got stupid.

[lefteyewilly]

i completely agree with Jaquan's last sentence in his last post as well as Argo's.

De-insaning someone is not possible. We're all insane in someway when s*** hits the fan...people can learn how to deal with situations as long as they are given the right motivation/advice.

[FlashLackey]

What is that dude thinking? Keeping his job in light of her losing hers is pretty damned arrogant.

Actually, I'm with your advice. Better to find out now while she is a gf and no kids are involved. RUN!

[cancerinform]

Being married once and now for 25 years my experience is that. A job is one of the if not the most important thing in everybody's life. Due to our jobs we are always in the situation of loosing it and we always imagine what if. That is No1 to understand. Already the fear of loosing the job can cause insanity.

A good relation always involves that both are supportive of each other in every way. If the guy loves the girl he will be supportive all the way and be with her all the time. It is especially important now where she does not have a job that he is 100% on her site even she behaves insane. Man swallow it if she is jealous that you have a job. Wouldn't you be be if it is the other way round? It is these situations which proof if a relationship is working or not.

[FlashLackey]

Don't you think that it goes both ways?

Allowing someone to treat you badly is not a form of support, imo.

[Frets]

It may be intended and have unintended consequences.

I remember this one chick I knew who had a system.
Find a guy lose a the job hang on the guy. move back to mom blame everything on the guy, find a job find a guy, lose the job hang on the guy. She'd last at jobs two weeks, last in the rent free relationship 6 months to a year. She started hanging around my doorstep all friendly and happy to see me, She was trying to create an exit strategy for her current relationship (I guess mom had enough)

I don't know if she ever broke out of the cycle. but I did see it repeated over the course of 5 years. Yes she may have been depressed, yes she may have been wacko at times but I believe it was just her not having the skills to work thru long term relationships and looking for an easy out.

[cancerinform]

Don't you think that it goes both ways?

Allowing someone to treat you badly is not a form of support, imo.

I don't know the guy and that relationship. May be the guy gave her a good reason for complains. May be Gerb is reporting this one-sided and believes fully the guy's side of the story. It is understandable since they are friends. So I'd be cautious doing the blame game on the girl.

[jAQUAN]

Allowing someone to treat you badly is not a form of support, imo.

You just summed up my whole post.

[gerbick]

Well, thanks to Flashlackey, jAQUAN, and two other of my friends, we got my friend to see that what's going on isn't healthy for him. Nor, is she entirely "insane", but there's an issue there in terms of what validates her.

So... they're going to therapy together, as friends, he's keeping his job, she's moving out to her parents this upcoming weekend - they're supportive.

Consider this a FK intervention for my friend. Now mine is upcoming (no joke)

[jAQUAN]

"Gerbick, we are no longer going to be enablers for your flex use."

[gerbick]

"Gerbick, we are no longer going to be enablers for your flex use."

*pulls out switchblade*

Say what?