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Thread: Elements. Fantasy cards game

  1. #461
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    I seem to have the worst luck ever. I've lost the past 5-6 games against myself because I always get a horrible hand (previously Nova-less, now just quantum-screwed).
    On the other hand, my new deck seems to be working alright.

  2. #462
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    I've been trolling this forum for a while while playing the game. The new updates sound awesome and just wanted to say that your sugestions for the future (leveling up, actual pvp, things like that) sound like they could make the game huge.

  3. #463
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    I think I would like to have Full PvP first before anything. Then after that I'd want to have the card level up option, and finallly I'd like to have the upgradable stats. This all seems awesome and now I have a much better chance against novas. Thanks Zanzarino!

  4. #464
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    I have a feeling the new dominant deck type will be dual-color, with a major color fueled by pillars and a different, minor color fueled by the Mark.

    It might - might - still be worth it to play with 6 Novas just so you can use all the powerful 1-mana effects... Poison, Freeze, Purify, etc.

  5. #465
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    I made a mutation deck after the change today (quantum pillers, novas, photons, lycans, mutation) and it has been prity good. Only lost a few and those were mostly due to other side phase shifts.

  6. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by zanzarino View Post
    The new cards are:

    Fire - immolation: Sacrifice a creature to get 5 fire quantums + quantum for each non-fire element

    Light - Miracle: cost 12, completely heal you (back to 100hp) consumes all the light quantums left after the spell

    Gravity - Titan(weapon): cost 5, damage 7, momentum (this weapon has also something else special, but I'll never tell you)

    Entropy - Discord(weapon): cost 3, damage 7, special:every successfull attack randomly switches quantum type in the opponent quantum reservoir.

    Immolation will be sold at the bazaar soon, the other 3 are rares and it will take a while for them to show around.
    Haha I can see once Miracle starts getting into circulation more its going to be in every firefly deck out there because what better way to spend all that extra light quanta than a full revival, hehe.

  7. #467
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    Since the rare cards have changed prices I am reposting it. The numbers in red are old numbers. Please post any accurate info you may have about changes and I will keep updating this list

    Arctic squid cost: 3 water, damage: 1, health: 2, special: 3 water to freeze target.
    Arsenic cost: 3 death, damage: 2, special: 1 poison (poison is cumulative).
    Druidic Staff cost: 3 life, damage 2, Special: heal up to 3 hp.
    Eternity cost: 5 time, damage 4, special: 3 time to return target creature to owner's deck.
    Fahrenheit cost 3 fire, damage: 4+x, special: extra damage, x is numer of fire quanta owned divided by 5
    Lobotomizer cost: 4 aether, damage: 5, special: 3 aether to remove the special ability from target creature.
    Morning Star cost: 5 light, damage: 7, special: cannot be stolen or destroyed.
    Owl's Eye cost: 3 wind, damage: 5, special: 2 wind to deal 3 damage to target creature.
    Pulverizer cost: 5 earth, damage 5, special: 3 gravity to destroy target permanent
    Trident cost: 3 water (but says aether on card), damage: 4, special: 3 earth to destroy up to 3 pillars in a stack
    Vampire Stilletto cost: 1 darkness, damage: 2, special: return damage done as healing

    Oh, and I love the new changes, and the ideas for coming ones.
    Last edited by kethaq; 06-17-2009 at 05:12 PM.

  8. #468
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    fahrenheit costs 3 quanta now
    Artic squid still costs three
    (as a side note, dive has been reduced by one for both the wyrm and the pegasus so dive combos might be more worth it now, not sure though because I haven't played a deck like that)

  9. #469
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    Some early notes...


    Playing with my old deck, it's actually running at about 50-60% efficiency. If I took the now useless cards like Otyugh and Parasite out, it would probably run even better.

    You need two Novas to get a Lycanthrope into play, and three for a Graboid, but when you do the combo is still very very good. So... Nova is still a great card and I'll probably be playing with 4-6 of them and a rainbow of 1-cost cards, in addition to whatever two-color combo I settle with.

    The repriced rare weapons are now very powerful. If you own Lobotomizer, Morningstar or Owl's Eye it's now really worth looking at building a deck just to work with that weapon.

    Once the Miracle card comes out, the top 50 is gonna be swamped with Firefly decks because of Mastery wins (play Miracle on your last turn, boom 40 electrum!). I wonder what the best deck is to counter a Firefly deck? At least for those of us who won't get a copy of Miracle...
    Last edited by -Manwe-; 06-17-2009 at 01:50 AM.

  10. #470
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    I prefer my all aether deck still because I win against most decks(except samura who's dark/time combo really starves all my expensive cards, but I'm not sure how it does against other decks with cheaper cards). It works pretty well against firefly decks because I can usually stall long enough with my dimensional shields so that I can get enough dragons out to beat him down before I die from his mob. Not sure how I'd do against a deck with a few miracles though becausethat could save him for two to thrree turns if he's low on health. An earth deck with titanium shields could probably do well against it because the fireflies would only be doing 1 instead of 3. Until my deck doesn't work efficiently(against most decks that is) I'm not going to mess with my strategy unless I happen to get quite a few of a certain couple of rare cards.

    Another potentially devasting strategy that could be employed is a fire deck with rain of fire. It'd wipe out all the fireflies and rustlers and if you have enough quanta you could use firebolts to weaken the queens to wipe them out in the rain of fire as well. This could be a very effective counter strategy if a ton of people start suing firefly combos with miracles. a strategy they might try to use the reflective shield so that you can't hit them with the rain of fire anyways(I think the reflective shield works with spells against your monsters anways, I'm not sure though if its only direct spells towards you though. If you could help clear this up zanzarino it'd be helpful or anyone else who knows for sure on this topic.) So really it all just depedns if people are really able to amass enough miracles to make them truly effective in their decks.
    Last edited by DarkGate; 06-17-2009 at 02:57 AM.

  11. #471
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    I haven't gotten the update yet. (I think its because my name got changed)

  12. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by zanzarino View Post
    Fire - immolation: Sacrifice a creature to get 5 fire quantums + quantum for each non-fire element
    cool!

    Quote Originally Posted by zanzarino View Post
    Light - Miracle: cost 12, completely heal you (back to 100hp) consumes all the light quantums left after the spell
    cool, but seems too powerfull ... how about "consumes all quantums left after the spell" (not only the light..)

    Quote Originally Posted by zanzarino View Post
    Gravity - Titan(weapon): cost 5, damage 7, momentum (this weapon has also something else special, but I'll never tell you)
    cool, wait.. i'm confused.. is a weapon .. why the momentum?.. something to do with the dimensional shield..?

    Quote Originally Posted by zanzarino View Post
    Entropy - Discord(weapon): cost 3, damage 7, special:every successfull attack randomly switches quantum type in the opponent quantum reservoir.
    way too cool ... maybe too powerfull - I'd increase the cost to 4 or even 5?

    Quote Originally Posted by zanzarino View Post
    1 - Go ahead and develop a full pvp/multiplayer version.
    Can it have the AI-PvP option anyway? .. like the in the same lvl 4 .. And adding a lvl 5 button? ... or more simple - have all on lvl 4 pvp .. but it will play AI-pvp mode if there is no one else on the room in ..say 20 sec .. scores: Human-pvp the winner gain the loser lose score; AI-pvp, only the active player lose or win score

    Quote Originally Posted by zanzarino View Post
    2 - Add an "upgrade card" function ...

    3 - Add levels. When a certain score is reached, and paying a certain amount of money, the player will gain levels. ...
    Pure awesomeness!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bianary View Post
    Initially, you could only allow rares to be traded for other rares (Or for straight up cash -- but either way, no trading of cards you can simply purchase from the bazaar) Alternatively, they could just be sold for electrum and when you put it up you put up the minimum price that gets compared to for anyone who has bids up on the item already (If you allow people to say WTB, basically)

    Just let people put up a card and what they want, and if someone likes the trade they fulfill it.
    I totally agree on trading - i think the problem is that with instant trading cards it could be exploited - for example, someone can create many accounts to feed his "real" account with rares... I think a way to avoid those situations is to put the card on auction with a minimum time of one day.. for all to be able to see and auctioning for the card on those 24 hours with bids...


    Quote Originally Posted by Levethix View Post
    8. I think it would be nice to somehow win rare cards - either by getting a certain ranking, getting a certain score, or by charging a very high price (at least over 10,000 electrons, perhaps a minimum number of buys).
    I like very much this idea

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkGate View Post
    I prefer my all aether deck still because I win against most decks(except samura who's dark/time combo really starves all my expensive cards, but I'm not sure how it does against other decks with cheaper cards)...
    indeed .. i've been able to uber pwn with that combo geting strikes of 10-20 wins .. even the fast decks .. I was unsure how the AI-pvp was handling well or not with the strategy...

    I think he is going too well because players are yet re-balancing theyre decks tho..

    (btw - the deck was thinking on 2 things - for the pillars the dark devourors, for the dropped creatures by Novas the time reversals .. but it worked better than I thought since Nova got nerfed ... weaknesses - if the other deck relies heavier on pillars (like.. if is constructed to put 7 pillars on the first turn - like the most of the simplest Dragon+Firebolts fire decks) - or if it relies on free mana like fireflies+rustler .. but somewhat my time reversals had been most of the times there when needed... Also - if enemy dark devourers are drooped before mines i'm dead xS lol )

    Quote Originally Posted by warrenpeace View Post
    I also think that the level system will be good as long as you only fight within your own lvl. I think that you should have some type of ladder as you do with the VS the comp. I also think that you should still offer to fight against the comp that way people can try thier decks out before they go in and get slaughtered...
    imho, if ladders has to be installed, the best way to do it is evaluating the deck electrum total cost of each player for each fight... there is no meaning that 2 different players with the same deck (or the same total cost..) got hyper-different score gains ...
    Last edited by -Samura-; 06-17-2009 at 04:34 AM.

  13. #473
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    imho, if ladders has to be installed, the best way to do it is evaluating the deck electrum total cost of each player for each fight... there is no meaning that 2 different players with the same deck (or the same total cost..) got hyper-different score gains ...
    @Samura

    When I meant ladders I was thinking that he should implement a system that has tiers. Lets say it has 5 tiers. On those 5 tiers it might look like this

    Tier 1 Game score of 500 or less
    Tier 2 Game score of 1000
    Tier 3 Game score of 2000
    Tier 4 Game score of 4000
    Tier 5 Game score of 6000 or more

    Or when it is upgraded to the lvl system use lvls

    Tier 1 Level 5 or below
    Tier 2 level 10-15
    Tier 3 Level 15-25
    Tier 4 Level 25-35
    Tier 5 Level 35 and above with a lvl cap of 50
    and then like World of warcraft when you see that alot of people have reached 50, then offer 10 more lvls new cards/skills for those lvls

    @Samura.... again
    I beat your deck a couple days ago with a rustler firefly combo, The AI played terribly, reversing a firefly instead of the queen

    @Zan
    I found a glitch. I was going to use lightning but instead opted to end my turn without pressing the cancel after the select target message came up. I was then able to select a target and use the card in the middle of the AI's turn. I did it several times in a row. A couple times after the AI put out new creatures.

  14. #474
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    Fire

    Hi there--I've never posted before, but this game has been a huge distraction. To my knowledge (and i've played against almost all top 50) I'm one of the few who has played with a creatureless fire deck (almost everyone includes the dragons or those 0/2 pumpables):

    In the last update, obviously, the Nova/Lycanthrope decks were overpowered (along with Chrysaora and Deflagration). Nerfing nova fixed that, but created a much bigger problem IMO.

    Creatureless mono fire. I developed this deck in the environment for the previous version, and it won 95% of the time against the computer, 2% of the time against player decks (it had a tough time with speedy lycanthropes and poison). But when i logged back on after the patch, I was basically unstoppable. The reason is that Fire is the only element that can successfully field a non-creature deck. Load your deck up with about 15-16 fire pillars, and there is almost literally nothing that any deck in the environment except for Aether and another mono-fire deck can do to stop you. And to stop you, Aether would have to run Immortals, which is not a common choice (although, a build of a 6x immortal, 6x dimensional shield deck is almost as strong as Fire).

    The reason it's so strong is twofold.

    1) It completely negates the effectiveness of approximately 50% of the cards in the game. None of your cards can be infected, damaged by spells, eaten by otyugh, frozen, or put back on top of your deck. That alone will make you win against half of the decks out there.

    2) It has unparalleled card advantage. Rain of fire and Fire Shield can destroy almost any number of cards out of your opponent's hand at the price of a bit of life (from them dmging you, and you waiting for maximum yield) and 7 quantums. Fire and darkness are the only two elements that can get rid of a fire shield that I can think of, forcing any good metagaming opponent to run one of those two elements, and if they play darkness, almost all of darkness's creatures are weak against rain of fire/fire shield anyway, negating the Steal advantage.

    Add to that the control ability of deflagration, and the massive damage of Farenheit, and you can sit back and easily amass 100+ quantums to kill your opponent with only 3 of your deck's 6 Fire Bolts.

    There are some cards in this game that just need to go or be heavily modified because they screw up your otherwise complex metagame. 1) Dimensional Shield. 2) Fire Bolt.

    I suggest capping Fire Bolt at 12 dmg, and have it be 2 dmg for every 6 quantums. That will eliminate abuse of the decktype, and force fire to play with creatures, which will cease to make it a deck you must meta against specifically, or else you lose.


    Anyone disagree?

  15. #475
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    List of decktypes that have no chance whatsoever against mono-fire:

    Firefly decks.

    Dive.

    Darkness/death/time infect/swarm decks of any sort.

    Time swarm decks that rely on card advantage.

    Aether dragon decks that rely on parallel universe/dragons. They actually get shut down in 2 possible ways. 1) resource denial due to deflagration or 2) fire shield/rain of fire. Fire bolt also goes through dimensional shield.

    Gravity (all cards).

    Water (all cards).

    Emerald (all cards but dragon and shield--but they'd have to play with more than you had deflagrations).

    Stuff that does have a chance:

    Decks with many Colossal Dragons and Parallel Universe. Decks with many Blessings they can play as soon as their creatures come out.

    Aether decks that abuse dimensional shield and Immortals.

    Decks that abuse Anubis, and are lucky enough to draw into both types of quantums in sufficient quantity before you have 500 fire quantums to kill them.

    Entropy decks that don't rely on their lycanthropes too heavily. Mutation is actually cheap and can work. Sometimes. Then again you could become a 0/1 material Immortal that lets you pay 1 water to gain 2 white quantums.


    End rant.

  16. #476
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    @warrenpeace

    ok, I was talking if there was only the building deck variation .. in this measure the WoW is not a good example because players differ by HP and other stats .. which is not what is right now .. ofcourse as the game goes with other stats per player (Stamina, Empathy, Intellect, Dexterity, and Card upgrades) which are completely level dependent like WoW then I totally agree with your view .. until then, because right now the level of the player is not linked with any advantage in the game set, I think levels cannot be (makes no sense to be..) laddered

    For a static set (players have the same access to the same cards, no upgrade cards, no proper stats per player, etc) the only 2 valid options I can see is:

    - score independent score gain: everyone can fight everyone [no ladders], the score gains are linked to the total electrum cost of the decks of each player for each fight

    - score dependent score gain: everyone can fight everyone [no ladders], the score gains are linked to the expected win (by skill - not by his stats) and to the difference of scores between players [Elo-like score sytem] (the player that win a higher player win more than if he wins a lower player .. and if loss lose less with a higher than with a lower)


    Quote Originally Posted by warrenpeace View Post
    I beat your deck a couple days ago with a rustler firefly combo, The AI played terribly, reversing a firefly instead of the queen
    @zanzarino:
    interesting, I think AI can be improved with simple things .. like

    Time Reversal > For the enemy creature - Target only at the end of the turn creatures with no freezes and with no time bubble; Target the creature that as no quantum to be played next; if not possible, target the creature that as more cumulative effects on it; if not possible, target the creature that have higher cost to play; if not possible, target the creature that as an ability that can be used next; if not possible, target the creature that as more attack; if not possible, target the creature that as more defense; if not possible, target the last played

    Dimensional Shield > summon the DS in hand if there is other in play with counter at 0 and the total damage x2 greater than the hp left

    .. well idk if this would realy help or not ...


    (btw, @warrenpeace, the deck was made today... you beat on other .. but the same problem with AI time reversal would have raised.. )
    (EDIT: LOL - I got a lucky hand and did a Elemental Master against myself ... woot! rofl.. )

    Quote Originally Posted by Elecid View Post
    Anyone disagree?
    hmm... I disagree... look: Entropy/Dark + Novas, Earth/Aether + Novas, Air/Life, Air + Novas, Dark, Life, Life/Light, Air/Light, Light, Death/Dark, Death, etc
    I'm counting on you having 16 pillars + 6 firebolts + 8 (? fire shields + ? deflagrations + ? Farenheit + ? rain of fire) (2+2+2+2)?
    Now, a firebolt will do 33 damage with 101 quantums .. but for 100+ damage is 2 of 101 quantum + 1 of 111 quantum, ...hmm.. ok:

    100+ damage:

    1 firebolt of 102 damage with 331 quantum
    2 firebolts of 51 damage each with 161 quantum each
    3 = 2 fb of 33 damage with 101 each + 1 fb of 36 with 111 q
    4 = 2 fb of 24 d with 71 q each + 2 fb of 27 d with 81 q each
    5 = 1 fb of 18 d with 51 q + 4 fb of 21 with 61 q each
    6 = 2 fb of 15 d with 41 q + 4 fb of 18 with 51 q each

    possible very optimistic scenario:

    8 pillars (8 quantum) (0 damage)
    8+1 p (17q) (0 d)
    8+2 p (27q) (0 d)
    8+3 p (38q) (0 d)
    8+4 p (50q) (0 d)

    after this 5th tun you have at the beginning of the 6th 50 quantums .. you can use a firebolt of 15 but
    you'll have to be lucky for only get pillars untill now and then a firebolt .. which is too unlikely .. anyway

    it continues..

    8+4 p (50-3+8+4 = 59q) (15d)
    12 p (59-3+12 = 68q) (15+21=36 d)
    12 p (65+12=77q) (36+24=60 d)
    12 p (74+12=86q) (60+27=87 d)
    12 p (83+12=95q) (87+30=117 d)

    this way I think is the faster (or very close to the faster way..) will need in the total

    10 turns
    12 pillars
    5 firebolts

    so is all about if he can get you before 10 turns! (well 10 turns is like the the faster that deck can be ..) .. and i think there is some speedy decks that can kill before that
    Last edited by -Samura-; 06-17-2009 at 10:40 AM.

  17. #477
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    Dark/Fire control could handle a mono-Fire deck pretty well, since it relies on limiting your opponents amount of quantums. Firebolts wouldn't be as effective.

  18. #478
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    @Samura
    I beat the deck that you had on here 3 days ago and I just beat your new deck, again by luck you must have had a bad draw. Although AI did reverse the queens this time.

    I really like the new revised morning star. I just wish I had owl's eye and morning star. Then I could put a couple flying weapon cards in and see how that goes.






    PS......You also stole my shield and I want it back.

  19. #479
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    Oops, nevermind.
    Last edited by icecue7; 06-17-2009 at 07:58 AM.

  20. #480
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    Rebalanced generators and sheilds are a win for creative gameplay.

    But I just started a new account only to be infuriated anew by the petty imposition of a tedious grind through the 'economic' barriers before entering the entirely different economy of the core game.
    Initially it's the old -- Sell junk low to buy slightly better junk high, and repeat, just to crawl out of the pit -- racket.
    Pay more electrum, get quantum-cheap and superior tools.
    At the bottom, wealth is permission to choose better.

    Ideally, all cards would have equal electrum cost (if any), and the quantum cost and challenges of playing them well and in combinations would be trusted to keep it interesting from the start, just as it ultimately has to be for those who 'earn' enough to ignore electrums.

    (By "junk" I mean a temporary affordable crutch, often incompatible with the target deck)
    Last edited by notStaying; 06-17-2009 at 08:48 AM. Reason: clarification: "junk"

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