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Thread: Elements. Fantasy cards game

  1. #681
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    rare crisis

    A solution to the rare crisis might be to make PVP be more then just the top 50. if it were top 150 then the chance of getting the one messed up deck is reduced by a factor 3.

    I think limiting the rares to 2 in a deck would also help a lot.

    It might be possible to have a used counter on rares, so a deck could be played against only so many times, before the rares stop being given out by it. If a rare is chosen by the spinner it gets a counter incremented, if that counter exceeds a certain value then it becomes un-give-able, if the spinner chooses that card it just spins again. all the rigged decks would give out would be pillars after some number of rounds.

    just a thought
    Polygot.

    @zanzarino

    any thoughts on my previous suggestions?

  2. #682
    I am still here, but sometime I also have to work on jobs that are actually paid unlike elements... I have weaknesses too, like the need to eat and pay the rent.

    Anyway...
    Of course rare cards are fun and balanced only if they are rare; "rare" meaning hard to get; "hard to get" meaning how it was before a few people decided to find a way to distribute rares to anyone because... it was too hard... I can not buy it, the chances to get those card is insanely low... well. Rare cards have been the subject of harsh comments since the beginnings of elements, I am just letting people enjoy abundance of rare cards for a while, before I put things back to the way it was before.

    With the new patch when a deck is composed mostly of pillars, the slot machine will also give pillars as a prize, this should take care of the pillars+rares decks.

    About all the rares that are out there right now... I don't know. Any suggestion? I'll probably have to turn them into common cards, because it is what they are right now: reduce the stats, increase the cost and change the name, so that the "owl's eye" will be turned into a "bow", damage 2, cost 5, sniper cost 3.... or just delete all of them... going back through 70,000 decks trying to determine which rare was earned and which one was not is just unfeasible.

    Sadly, for a couple of days I can not take care of this, when I'll be back the plan is:
    - Fix the rares that are not rare anymore
    - Add the new cards
    - Back to developing the pvp system

    Thank you for the comments and the concerns, rest assured that I read all of them, even if I am not answering all the times.

    P.S. :
    I am going to copy and paste some of the comments about the rare cards from different portals, so you can have a laugh at it while I am working on fixing things:

    I'll describe this game in one word- RETARDED. IT is EXTREMELY one sided for the opponent, you can't get hardly any cards except for those crap cards, JUST TERRIBLE. 1/5

    I keep replaying hoping to see improvements, but it's the same grind - now with imbalanced weapons that you have little to no chance of getting.
    Last edited by zanzarino; 06-24-2009 at 10:48 PM.

  3. #683
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    um.....

    it's been a while since my account got resetted,

    i dont know what cause this but....

    well since no one can help me roll back or do something about it...

    i may hav to quit this game

    thanks for the previous help zanzarino

  4. #684
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    Haha at the rare cards comments zanzarino. I think a good option would be to just delete all the abused rares out there and then make it so people have to earn them again(I know this would be tought for those of us who worked hard to get our rares legit, but I think its a good sacrifice to help bring fun back to the game). I still think that Ragorak2should be banned for what he did and anyone else who tries to exploit that in the fiture should be banned as well.

  5. #685
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    This sucks. I have played over 700 games in the last 3 weeks or so and I have a total of only 5 rares (2 owl, 1 druid, 1 vampire, and 1 morning star) playing a good combination of lvl 3 and 4.

    I would be pissed if all the rares are just deleted or downgraded for everyone just because a couple retards screwed the game over... BUT I agree it needs to be fixed.

    So, why not just delete ALL rares, then assign a random rare to everyone for every 150 games they played. So, I would get my 5 back, at random, and everyone would get the same ratio.

    Fairest and easiest way... imho, without having to go through 70k accounts.

    Or just delete any rare over 2 or 3 in a persons account.

  6. #686
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    bigiowa22 I'm not talking about all the rares being dleted only the ones that were exploited which was only 2 so far, the Owl eyes and the Morning Star. You'd get to keep the rest of your rares while the ones that were affected are reset (I'll be losing like 8 rares from this so I know how painful its going to be).

  7. #687
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    @DarkGate, I think others rares was given out the same way too .. like vampire stiletto .. I don't think it would be possible to anyone get like 8 vampire stilettos without this given rares floating around, also no ones know if ragorak2 was the only account doing that, also it is impossible to know for each one of the accounts if some rare in cause was given that way or not.

    If the spinning process changes like zanzarino said, then I agree with bigiowa22 that deleting and roll back randomly all the rares 1 per 150 won games would be a way of even things out without to have to downgrade rares

    (@bigiowa22, I don't agree that a solution will be deleting any rare over 2-3 because we really don't know how many different rares ragorak2 or others possible spam-rare accounts was actually given)

    In the meanwhile I like the way zanzarino is turning the crisis in to an somewhat experimental abundance of rares..
    Rare cards have been the subject of harsh comments since the beginnings of elements, I am just letting people enjoy abundance of rare cards for a while, before I put things back to the way it was before.
    .. I mean, with this abundance of rares we can see very nicely the balance issues it can arrive when the game got older (which at that age many will have a lot of "legit" rares)

    .. I can say that, when I saw those spawning Owl's everywhere I got crazy in setting a good counter deck (countering 6 Owl's is not easy .. but is possible..) .. i think I lose like 100-150 games on trying a way to defeat the Owl's decks AND the Fire decks AND the Aether-Dragon-copy decks without being one of them ... Gravity Shield is good against the first (because AI don't hit on his own Owl's to pass .. Gravity Shield is good against MorningStar too ..) Gravity Shield + gravity Dragons can somewhat hit the 1st and the 2nd and if you add Aether-Mark with those instant 5 damage plus some Oytugs you maybe can give away the 3rd type too .... after I gain Owl's I concluded that putting 6 Owl's on a 30-card-deck and relying mainly on them doesn't work properly... because of time reversal, freezes, Gravity-shields, direct damage, mutation, etc.. for vampire stiletto even worse because of the waisted blessings after a mutation or a reverse time...
    ok.. now you could think ... "ah.. but i have a 6 miracles + 6 morning stars deck" - imo it will not work - Dimensional Shield and/or Gravity Shield , and other cards to do damage or a simply long deck of 41 cards will win by discard

    so my conclusion (until now) is that the rares are doing accordingly to what a rare card are supposed to do on a deck - putting 1-4 of the same rare you got a strong deck, more than that is a waist if you are against a good deck - so I think is not so unbalanced after all...
    Last edited by -Samura-; 06-25-2009 at 06:35 AM.

  8. #688
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    Quote Originally Posted by zanzarino View Post
    Life: Empathic Bond, permanent (maybe you guys can come up with a better name); when Empathic Bond is in play every creature you control heals you for 1HP per turn. It is not much, but useful if you have a many creatures in play and can be used together with a shield
    That sounds like it would be incredibly strong with a Firefly/Rustler deck. You could have up to 6 of those out at a time, healing you for 6x the max number of creatures (potentially) each turn. You'd be basically invincible, except for the possibility of running out of cards. :O

    Quote Originally Posted by zanzarino View Post
    Death: Bone wall, it starts with 10 charges, every charge blocks one attack from a creature/weapon. When all the charges are consumed the bone wall is destroyed. Every time a creature is killed the bone wall regenerates, gaining back 3 charges. It will be very effective against a few big creatures, quite useless against many little creatures.
    Question: Will it be possible for it to gain more than 10 charges? For example, if you were playing against a Firefly/Rustler deck or a Skeleton deck and played a Bone Wall followed by a Firestorm?

    Quote Originally Posted by kethaq View Post
    I disagree that the new disipation sheild will be weak. It was not made clear if the sheild consumes all kinds of quanta or just entropy, but if it consumes all types, then if I have 10 quantum pillars out that would be the same as getting 30 pints of healing per turn. with no recurring cost. now that would be powerful.
    But there is a recurring cost... if you would be taking 30 damage per turn, it would be costing you 30 quantums per turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disaru View Post
    I can't see how you could summon enough creatures for this to have some benefit. Even once you summon 10 creatures, that's probably endgame where you or your opponent is about to die anyways. Maybe ALL creatures on the field, including your opponents., would make this shield better.
    Two words: Phase Shield.
    I've seen some games drag out very long when both I and my opponent were using a lot of Phase Shields. >_<

    Quote Originally Posted by polyglot View Post
    A solution to the rare crisis might be to make PVP be more then just the top 50. if it were top 150 then the chance of getting the one messed up deck is reduced by a factor 3.
    That sounds like a good idea. Top 150 or Top 200 would definitely open up the "PvP" mode to a lot more player's decks, too, which would hopefully improve the variety even more.

    Quote Originally Posted by polyglot View Post
    I think limiting the rares to 2 in a deck would also help a lot.
    I could see good points and bad points for both a limit of 2 and a limit of 3; either way, though, there really does need to be some restriction on the number of rares (possibly even a limit on total rares in the deck, too?), or else the decks that have a lot of rares tend to do very well against the decks that don't. =/

    Quote Originally Posted by polyglot View Post
    It might be possible to have a used counter on rares, so a deck could be played against only so many times, before the rares stop being given out by it. If a rare is chosen by the spinner it gets a counter incremented, if that counter exceeds a certain value then it becomes un-give-able, if the spinner chooses that card it just spins again. all the rigged decks would give out would be pillars after some number of rounds.
    Sounds like that might be another good idea, although I think -Samura-'s idea about the spinner would work better overall. It would still be something to keep in mind, although it would need to be a daily or weekly limit.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Samura- View Post
    so my conclusion (until now) is that the rares are doing accordingly to what a rare card are supposed to do on a deck - putting 1-4 of the same rare you got a strong deck, more than that is a waist if you are against a good deck - so I think is not so unbalanced after all...
    I do have to say, as someone who has somewhat recently started several new accounts to test different elements:

    Yes, against a good deck, they will do poorly. But when even the basic AI decks are using lots of rares, it can be very hard on the starter decks, especially for new players just trying to get into the game. That is already one of the hardest points due to all the budgeting that needs to be done to get to your desired deck, and it is a lot harder when all the opponent decks have rares and you don't yet have a deck that can counter them. Some of my decks spent a lot of time playing the Level 0 decks for electrum, and that is not any fun... especially when even those decks still get the occasional rare that will make your game a pain in the rear.

    I do have to say, one thing that could make the early game a lot easier on new players would be having the electrum won from a match always be at least equal to the electrum you would lose... that is, instead of only gaining 1 electrum if you had 1 life at the end of the match, instead have it be whatever the losing cost would be (or that + 1).

    Mathy example: Instead of giving (1...5) for the level 1 match, give either [(1...3) + 2] or [(1...4) + 1]

  9. #689
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    There is no "crisis" give me a break.

    People complain that rare decks beat non-rare decks, this is EXACTLY what was happening before except only a few very very lucky people, or people who played for huge amounts of time, got to use rares... and they beat the rest of us habitually.

    Now many many more people have rares, and are using them, which means the rate of jackpot rare gain for all PVP players will go up. Which is a more fair situation in my opinion - moving towards an environment where everyone has rares.

    Rob was happy beating everyone with his 5 "legitimate" Owl Eyes deck but now that more people have them he's crying foul over Ragorak's "unsportsmanship." Suck it up dude. If sportsmanship is "I get to snipe all your creatures because I played longer" then this part of the game is terribly designed.

    There's not even the money motive most CCG's have for stringing along the players who want rare cards. It's a free online game, it's ok for it to have unlockable features, but the expected price (in terms of games played) for even the most-used rares was ten thousand, fifteen thousand electrum before. Then there were rares that never got used, therefore never got jackpotted, so they stayed super-rare. Like Arsenic which was literally priceless in the old version of the game.

    I have 4 Fahrenheits that I got "legitimately" in about 500 games played. But I wanted Arsenic, Stiletto and some Owl's Eyes. Couldn't get them because there were TWO DECKS in the top 50 that used any of those weapons back when Aether Dragon was dominant. The "vicious cycle" of rarity that these cards faced was one reason why the jackpot system just wasn't working as a way to reward long-term play.

    Right now the "hyper rare" zan added, Miracle, is breaking the game again. It's the single most powerful card in the game. But because few decks use the color, you're probably never going to jackpot one.

    It creates a two-tier system between casual players, and players who got incredibly lucky or who play for samura-esque lengths of time each day.

    IMHO @Zan, you should should scrap rares ALTOGETHER, add a common weapon for each color, and focus on adding more BAZAAR cards for each color. This would expand strategies and make the game feel fresh again.

    Making the existing rares into nerfed commons is a decent idea, creating a new round of rares to replace them is a TERRIBLE idea. The game would be much better off with a new set of 12 bazaar cards than a new set of 12 rares. Especially if this new round of cards added more powerful options for Earth, Water, etc.
    Last edited by -Manwe-; 06-25-2009 at 01:32 PM.

  10. #690
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Manwe- View Post
    Right now the "hyper rare" zan added, Miracle, is breaking the game again. It's the single most powerful card in the game. But because few decks use the color, you're probably never going to jackpot one.
    Play tier 3, you can win them there. I got one that way...

    That being said, I agree completely about the jackpot system being ineffective for spreading cards, and the limitations it suffers.

  11. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Samura- View Post
    .. I can say that, when I saw those spawning Owl's everywhere I got crazy in setting a good counter deck (countering 6 Owl's is not easy .. but is possible..) .. i think I lose like 100-150 games on trying a way to defeat the Owl's decks AND the Fire decks AND the Aether-Dragon-copy decks without being one of them ... Gravity Shield is good against the first (because AI don't hit on his own Owl's to pass .. Gravity Shield is good against MorningStar too ..) Gravity Shield + gravity Dragons can somewhat hit the 1st and the 2nd and if you add Aether-Mark with those instant 5 damage plus some Oytugs you maybe can give away the 3rd type too .... after I gain Owl's I concluded that putting 6 Owl's on a 30-card-deck and relying mainly on them doesn't work properly... because of time reversal, freezes, Gravity-shields, direct damage, mutation, etc.. for vampire stiletto even worse because of the waisted blessings after a mutation or a reverse time...
    ok.. now you could think ... "ah.. but i have a 6 miracles + 6 morning stars deck" - imo it will not work - Dimensional Shield and/or Gravity Shield , and other cards to do damage or a simply long deck of 41 cards will win by discard.
    My time/aether did pretty well in pwning those decks and apparently the AI was a monster when it used my deck (Everyone kept complaining that it hardcore pwned them every time i asked if anybody fought against me in the "PvP" mode).
    Try it out:
    15x time pillar
    6x reverse time
    6x golden hourglass
    2x devonian dragon
    3x anubis
    1x eternity (replace reverse times with these if you have more than 1)
    9x aether pillar
    6x parallel universe
    2x dimensional shield


    Anyways I wont be able to play the game even when/if zanzarino patches it because I'm travelling
    Last edited by Slayd CraVen; 06-25-2009 at 02:16 PM.

  12. #692
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    I've played against your deck before I do pretty well against it. Also the owls eyes aren't all that strong you just need to know just how to play against them because you may have the same cards in your deck but agianst different decks you have to play your cards differently.

  13. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slayd CraVen View Post
    15x time pillar
    6x reverse time
    6x golden hourglass
    2x devonian dragon
    3x anubis
    1x eternity (replace reverse times with these if you have more than 1)
    9x aether pillar
    6x parallel universe
    2x dimensional shield
    Your deck is boss!

    (it will pwn flying Owl's for sure)

    weaknesses against - immortals, poisons, shields and weapon(not flying) ... also a Aether deck can multiple copy your Anubis after he hits the table and set them immortal before you can draw enoughs reverse-times (I know that can happen because I did play a similar but smaller version back when i got time mark... but I think yours are much better than mine)

  14. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Manwe- View Post
    Rob was happy beating everyone with his 5 "legitimate" Owl Eyes deck but now that more people have them he's crying foul over Ragorak's "unsportsmanship." Suck it up dude. If sportsmanship is "I get to snipe all your creatures because I played longer" then this part of the game is terribly designed.
    Mind climbing off my back, Manwe? I wasn't "beating everyone with my 5 legitimate Owl Eyes deck" - how about keeping comments about what my deck has been to yourself if you have never played against it? If I was doing what you suggest, I would be top 50 - I am not top 50, likely won't be as I don't have time to devote to the game on weekdays.

    My comments regarded ragorak2 doing the rare-spamming intentionally and without regard to it's possible effects.

    Taking rares and making them more palatable commons that are neat weapons for each element is a good idea, I agree there. Ultimately, whatever zanzarino decides is how it will be. Seeing as he got the game to this point, I have no doubts he will come up with something good and continue to put effort into improving his game.


    --rob77dp

  15. #695
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Samura- View Post
    Your deck is boss!

    (it will pwn flying Owl's for sure)

    weaknesses against - immortals, poisons, shields and weapon(not flying) ... also a Aether deck can multiple copy your Anubis after he hits the table and set them immortal before you can draw enoughs reverse-times (I know that can happen because I did play a similar but smaller version back when i got time mark... but I think yours are much better than mine)
    @Samura and SLayd Craven,

    guys to be completely honest, ur deck is really good. it will beat the owl's eyes no doubt but against my deck, I've never lost 2 u. it's mainly because im the whole parallel, phase, dimes strategy, but it works really well. IN my opinion, the entire Elements community should be thinkning about a way to counter the Owl's Eyes and still be a decent deck agaisnt everyone else. My suggestion would be a kind of Gravity/Light/Aether...

    Per say:

    10 Quantum Pillars
    4 Otyugh
    6 Blessing
    6 Dimensional Shield
    2 Freeze
    2 Gravity Shields

    Try it out

    This deck will effectively counter Slayd's Deck because with the Gravity Shields, none of his monsters could hit me. The only thing doing damage would be his Eternity and 3 damage per turn would run both of our decks clean before the game ends.
    Last edited by Zeta711; 07-01-2009 at 10:18 AM.

  16. #696
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    I just had a thought for how to help Entropy out: Make mutation a reliably good card. Here's what I'd do to it:

    Raise its cost to at least 3 Entropy, possibly higher based on how effective it's found to be.
    Make its first mutation on a non-Abomination creature *always* turn it into an Abomination.
    Make its first mutation on an Abomination *always* turn into a mutant (Still completely random as it is now.) If it has to have a backfire the rare complete destruction could go here, but backfires like that are very weakening to having cards be usable.

    This would really help Entropy have a power card of its own while still being random about it (Since you don't know which mutants you're going to get), which is something it's seriously lacking right now. It would also help there be more a point to putting Abominations into a deck.

    As long as Entropy is pure random, it's going to be unreliable -- and reliability is needed for effectiveness. Moving its cards into pseudo-random will really help the element be viable (As you're planning with Chaos Seed).
    Last edited by Bianary; 06-26-2009 at 06:22 PM.

  17. #697
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    multiple Rogue/rogue's in the top 50?

    How is it Rogue/rogue has several entries into the top 50? Do they really have enough time to get 3 different decks (2 with exactly the same name) into the top 50... top 10 even?

    Just wondering.


    --rob77dp

    Edit: Also it seem Ragorak2/ragorak2 and drago10/drago10... is it a server error??
    Last edited by rob77dp; 06-26-2009 at 08:24 PM. Reason: noticed more info

  18. #698
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    Lightbulb Time Aether Deck , Suggestions for the Rare 'Crisis' & Comments on new cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Slayd CraVen View Post
    15x time pillar
    6x reverse time
    6x golden hourglass
    2x devonian dragon
    3x anubis
    1x
    eternity (replace reverse times with these if you have more than 1)
    9x aether pillar
    6x parallel universe
    2x dimensional shield
    Can eternity be replaced with something else if someone had none?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I have a suggestion about the current rare crisis, not only for the Ragorak2 'Rare Event', but for the improved circulation of rare cards without being too generous:

    The spin machine is still ok to me, but i would say to change the basis. How about: The spin machine will select a rare and randomly select four other cards. The rare and the 4 others will not depend on the current deck's card composition, but on the mark of the enemy you just won against. The 5 cards will also stay the same and not change for the rest of the alloted spin times.

    How does that sound??
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    New Cards comments and suggestions:

    Bone Wall: too strong in my opinion, either switch with 5 charges, 3 recharge rate or 10 charges, 1 recharge rate.

    Dissipation Shield: [What do you mean consume quanta instead of hp? i doesn't consume hp currently...] The dissipation shield could still defend 1 dmg like now, but it now has a 30% chance of inflicting a random negative effect[like the new chaos seed]. Everytime this happens, 1 entropy quantum is consumed, and 1 random quantum is destroyed from your opponent.

    'Popped-up-in-my-mind st00f': Why not make quanta limiter cards like Quantum Break that destroys like 5 Qs or Pillar Bombardment that destroys up to 3 pillars in the target cluster like tsunami? These cards can be placed in the other category
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What do you guys think overall?

    ~~Codename: Ice Bolt Elemental; Username:auriel

  19. #699
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    hi there
    i just logged on and everything that was left was money and deck i was playing with
    i lost all my cards,my stats and points!what happened?!?!

  20. #700
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bianary View Post
    Play tier 3, you can win them there. I got one that way...

    That being said, I agree completely about the jackpot system being ineffective for spreading cards, and the limitations it suffers.
    If you're lucky. I played level 3 for ages and encountered many, many decks with more than one Miracle, yet I still haven't won one. Then I played level 4 and again encountered decks with more than 1 Miracle and still haven't won one.
    Quote Originally Posted by rob77dp View Post
    How is it Rogue/rogue has several entries into the top 50? Do they really have enough time to get 3 different decks (2 with exactly the same name) into the top 50... top 10 even?

    Just wondering.


    --rob77dp

    Edit: Also it seem Ragorak2/ragorak2 and drago10/drago10... is it a server error??
    That's usually just an error with the hi-scores, and their score was submitted more than once. It's happened before and zanzarino has been pretty fast about fixing it.

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