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Thread: Elements. Fantasy cards game

  1. #1321
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    Another option somebody else mentioned would be to change the bazaar so you can sell cards for the full cost- that way if you want to try a different strategy you can just "convert" your upgrades.

  2. #1322
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    I agree that a big part of the game's fun was trying out different types of decks. Now if you upgrade cards, you kind of lock yourself into a deck. And if you do change deck type, unless you've already got all or most of the cards already for the deck you want to try, you sink a big amount of your cash into getting the cards necessary for your idea. Someone suggested simply making cards sell for the same amount they can be bought for, and this seems the simplest and easiest way to get back some of the versatility that was there before v1.1. Or beta could be reimplemented for those wanting to play around with decks.

    A much better option (imo at least), but one much harder to implement, would be rather than buying upgraded cards, you buy upgrade slots, which you allot to cards you want to upgrade. Then, if you want to change your deck, you empty those slots of cards that are going out of the deck so you can allot them to cards in your new deck.

    I'm playing a False god game atm (Scorpio - death mark and water pillars) and he put out 3 sapphire towers and an abyss crawler in the first turn, and ends his turn with 3 death and water quanta in his bank. The problem is, abyss crawlers cost 5 water quanta to play, so he generated 5 water quanta from his 3 sapphire towers in the first turn. More likely it seems to me that the card though listed as costing 5 water quanta actually costs the same amount as the unupgraded crawler, which costs 3 water quanta. Please post or bug report if you've also noticed this.

  3. #1323
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    I have 3 different 0 upgraded cards decks that can currently win 60-75% of the matches vs top 50. I find it hard to believe my playing methods/in-game strategy luck are that good with over 2000 matches played overall and quite a few vs the new "upgraded t50". I'm not sure what kind of deck people are using that just "cannot beat top 50 enough to make money" but surely you can tweak it to win more often...? Disaru seems to be on to something to maybe assuage those wishing for the game to be easy but not dumb it down to bore those of us still winning without (or with...) upgrades.


    --rob77dp

  4. #1324
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    I agree completely with rob. I may use upgraded cards but I have a FFQ build that I know for a FACT wins consistently with MASTERIES(which is like triple the average win really) so it gives great money. I've helped new players in the chat who just started build decks that can win T50 even though they can't afford upgrades. All the whining that you guys are doing is because you don't want to play for awhile and think of a good strategy that wins consistently. You want everything handed you to a silver platter while there are those of us who have played this game for awhile wo have actually taken the time to think through our decks and because of that we have kept winning through the slew of changes that Elements goes through. This is a FREE game that is great and its a CCG. In rl you wouldnt be able to just get any card you wanted like you can throuhg the bazaar. The way to make this game worth it is to make it so there is a grind and there SHOULD be something like upgrades that seperate players who put in the thought and work into this game. Its how it is in many other games such as MMORPG's and they don't complain about it at all. They just go to work on making themselves better. the only thing that I would agree with doing is make level 4 into T50 without upgrades and then make level 5 into what the T50 is now with a bit better rewards.

    --rant over By DarkGate

  5. #1325
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    Quote Originally Posted by marauder68 View Post
    The current top score is over 1,000,000 BTW.
    considering highest score yesterday was ~83k (and that's still in place), i find this suspicious...

  6. #1326
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzz123 View Post
    considering highest score yesterday was ~83k (and that's still in place), i find this suspicious...
    I am still not a fan of the Top 50 system currently in place. Being in the Top 50 means that you have put a significant amount of time into the game and that's about it. It has nothing to do with the quality of your wins or your actual skill. Anyone can grind their way into the top 50.

  7. #1327
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    Quote Originally Posted by markson View Post
    I'm playing a False god game atm (Scorpio - death mark and water pillars) and he put out 3 sapphire towers and an abyss crawler in the first turn, and ends his turn with 3 death and water quanta in his bank. The problem is, abyss crawlers cost 5 water quanta to play, so he generated 5 water quanta from his 3 sapphire towers in the first turn. More likely it seems to me that the card though listed as costing 5 water quanta actually costs the same amount as the unupgraded crawler, which costs 3 water quanta. Please post or bug report if you've also noticed this.

    3 sapphire towers equals 6 water quanta on the turn they were played.

  8. #1328
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtravisp View Post
    I am still not a fan of the Top 50 system currently in place. Being in the Top 50 means that you have put a significant amount of time into the game and that's about it. It has nothing to do with the quality of your wins or your actual skill. Anyone can grind their way into the top 50.
    If anyone can grind their way into the top 50, go ahead and do it.
    Most of your skill isn't even during the game, your skills is actually constructing the deck and all the balancing before the game happens. Once the game happens, your cards, draws are already determined, and it's up to how well you put the deck together that determines if you beat your opponent, not if you use "ur skillz" during the game to win lol.

    You're right, top50 is all about time put into playing. Maybe there should be a separate PVP ranking like previously suggested, which would measure how well you fair versus other ppl, not a programmed AI.

  9. #1329
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    wtf! My account got reset and started out a different element?!
    4g
    0 win
    0 loss
    0 score
    no cards?!

    account name is the flame

  10. #1330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disaru View Post
    If anyone can grind their way into the top 50, go ahead and do it.
    Most of your skill isn't even during the game, your skills is actually constructing the deck and all the balancing before the game happens. Once the game happens, your cards, draws are already determined, and it's up to how well you put the deck together that determines if you beat your opponent, not if you use "ur skillz" during the game to win lol.

    You're right, top50 is all about time put into playing. Maybe there should be a separate PVP ranking like previously suggested, which would measure how well you fair versus other ppl, not a programmed AI.
    The way it's set up now makes me lose all interest in grinding into the top 50. I agree that most of the skill is in deck design. I would just like to see a rating system inspired by chess ratings, where the rating tells you something about the strength of the player, not that they have 50,000 points because they've invested 300 hours into the game.

  11. #1331
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtravisp View Post
    The way it's set up now makes me lose all interest in grinding into the top 50. I agree that most of the skill is in deck design. I would just like to see a rating system inspired by chess ratings, where the rating tells you something about the strength of the player, not that they have 50,000 points because they've invested 300 hours into the game.
    Psh I'm only at 250 hours so don't give me that much credit :P haha jk but this is the way that a lot of games are rated really outside of stuff like chess and backgammon(What kinf of person plays that anyways :P haha). A lot of online games are pretty much by whoever puts in the most time and whoever uses that time most efficiently. Anyways the matches are against the ai most times anyways so a chess style rating system would be har to implement.

  12. #1332
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkGate View Post
    Psh I'm only at 250 hours so don't give me that much credit :P haha jk but this is the way that a lot of games are rated really outside of stuff like chess and backgammon(What kinf of person plays that anyways :P haha). A lot of online games are pretty much by whoever puts in the most time and whoever uses that time most efficiently. Anyways the matches are against the ai most times anyways so a chess style rating system would be har to implement.
    Yeah, I can definitely see the difficulty. Maybe in the future a tournament system could be implemented (round-robin or Swiss style). Something that would make PVP more interesting and compare player skill.

  13. #1333
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    Just defeated Fire Queen fake god and a mastery win for 120 coins Easiest lvl 6 so far for me, and got my first upgraded card from the roll, feral bond lol

  14. #1334
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtravisp View Post
    The way it's set up now makes me lose all interest in grinding into the top 50. I agree that most of the skill is in deck design. I would just like to see a rating system inspired by chess ratings, where the rating tells you something about the strength of the player, not that they have 50,000 points because they've invested 300 hours into the game.
    The current way PVP works IS supposed to be somewhat similar to chess/backgammon ratings - a larger gap in the two opponents' score mean more at risk/gained/lost if the higher score player loses. Of course, it is the other way around if the higher score wins - less gained/lost in score by each respective player. The 'problem' is that some scores are high enough to make the player avoid risking it in random PVP on one match, and grinding still just gives out score based on qty of matches mostly, not quality of the matches won.

    Zanzarino, please correct me on this if the PVP scoring system (non-duel) does not work this way.


    --rob77dp

  15. #1335
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkGate View Post
    They just go to work on making themselves better. the only thing that I would agree with doing is make level 4 into T50 without upgrades and then make level 5 into what the T50 is now with a bit better rewards.
    For all the longwinded rants on both sides, there seems to be a pretty strong consensus for this.

    @rob: I can still beat 60% or so top50 fights too, but that's a far cry from before when I was winning 80-90%. This may not sound like a big drop, but since I'm racking up more penalties as well as getting fewer rewards it makes for overall about half the profit from top 50 fights as before (at least raw profit; with card draws it's not quite as bad, maybe 60-70% of the profits from before if card values are included.) So now I'm probably better off fighting level 3 AIs instead if I wanted money, which is both slow and terribly boring.

    Moreover, I got this deck in the first place by earning cash from the old top50 fights when I was winning 60-70% even with an inferior deck; if I didn't already have all my key cards I can bet I wouldn't be winning 60% nowadays.

    I think I might be making some headway on cracking some of the fake gods, which is both vastly more interesting and possibly more lucrative than other grinding options at this point (although it's horribly unreliable; last night I made some huge windfalls but also blew several thousand gold on fights that failed to yield any cards when I won, which still isn't often at all, so my net take for the night was modest but appreciable). So that takes some of the sting off from grinding, at least, but beating fake gods with an un-upgraded deck (or even with most upgraded ones, probably) is definitely not easy to jump in and do, and it takes a pile of gold to even try.

  16. #1336
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    So far no luck against Elder Gods, anyone got some tips they can post about what has worked for them?

  17. #1337
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    Despite the warranted complaining, I'll just like to post a humorous/sad screenshot of a situation I was just in...sucks.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  18. #1338
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggabriel View Post
    For all the longwinded rants on both sides, there seems to be a pretty strong consensus for this.

    @rob: I can still beat 60% or so top50 fights too, but that's a far cry from before when I was winning 80-90%. This may not sound like a big drop, but since I'm racking up more penalties as well as getting fewer rewards it makes for overall about half the profit from top 50 fights as before (at least raw profit; with card draws it's not quite as bad, maybe 60-70% of the profits from before if card values are included.) So now I'm probably better off fighting level 3 AIs instead if I wanted money, which is both slow and terribly boring.

    Moreover, I got this deck in the first place by earning cash from the old top50 fights when I was winning 60-70% even with an inferior deck; if I didn't already have all my key cards I can bet I wouldn't be winning 60% nowadays.

    I think I might be making some headway on cracking some of the fake gods, which is both vastly more interesting and possibly more lucrative than other grinding options at this point (although it's horribly unreliable; last night I made some huge windfalls but also blew several thousand gold on fights that failed to yield any cards when I won, which still isn't often at all, so my net take for the night was modest but appreciable). So that takes some of the sting off from grinding, at least, but beating fake gods with an un-upgraded deck (or even with most upgraded ones, probably) is definitely not easy to jump in and do, and it takes a pile of gold to even try.
    I personally think your statements above are EXACTLY what makes games like this fun. Changes make strategy adjustment necessary, requiring thought, some time, and effort to then become successful. This is not having it handed to you by the game, which is what I think some people would prefer Elements to lean towards. I know I enjoy it more winning 60% and having to think than winning 80%+ and just going bam bam bam. Just being able to play for 3 days or even just 2 weeks and then afford all sorts of upgraded cards would shorten the life of Elements as a playable game very drastically. Upgraded cards, having been out now for approx. 4 days, I don't get all the complaining about cost and not affording upgrades yet. I have a high score, lots of games played, plenty of matches won, and 0 upgrades with only enough coin to buy 1 at the moment, but still like the idea of it being a difficult, but fun, road ahead.

    As several have added lately, a Level 4 being added b/t lvl 3 and Top 50, such as a Top 50 sans-upgraded cards, would be a great stepping stone to allow somewhat quicker coin (and therefore upgraded cards) acquisition for those quickly becoming weary with adjusting/thinking/grinding.


    --rob77dp

  19. #1339
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    Just managed to beat an elder god (chaos lord) with a turbo black deck (devourers + black dragons). Barely made it too; at one point he mutated a devourer into some sort of super-death-dragon (13/9) so that helped.


    Won an upgraded pillar.

    Doubt I'll beat one again.
    Last edited by gambrinous; 08-05-2009 at 09:42 AM.

  20. #1340
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob77dp View Post
    The current way PVP works IS supposed to be somewhat similar to chess/backgammon ratings - a larger gap in the two opponents' score mean more at risk/gained/lost if the higher score player loses. Of course, it is the other way around if the higher score wins - less gained/lost in score by each respective player. The 'problem' is that some scores are high enough to make the player avoid risking it in random PVP on one match, and grinding still just gives out score based on qty of matches mostly, not quality of the matches won.

    Zanzarino, please correct me on this if the PVP scoring system (non-duel) does not work this way.


    --rob77dp
    I've posted on this before. The current system does not resemble a chess rating system. The only part that does is the way a score change is calculated. If you have a low score and beat someone with a high score, you get a big score boost. If you have a much higher score that your opponent and you win, you won't change much.

    The critical difference is that in Elements, you have a cumulative score, not a rating. A rating reflects skill. A score reflects raw number of wins. In Chess, no one has a rating of 50,000. It's not possible.

    This article is good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

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