something other than a mouse

[argonauta]

so, I just got a joystick...It's big and has a lovely shape...it's a shame that it doesn't vibrate, otherwise it'd be the perfect replacement for my vib....oh wait, going off topic here.

I've been looking for alternatives to the mouse, as I started having problems with my wrist, and i think there are just too few alternatives. Basically, your options are:
- a joystick, hacked to be used as a mouse
- a tablet, to use the pen instead of a mouse
- a trackball
- a couple of ergonomic mice (vertical mouse, finger mouse, and a mouse shaped like a pen).
- trackpad (like in laptops)

How come there are so few input devices types out there, given the amount of technology out there? For example, you can do simple motion tracking with a webcam and actionscript, so isn't there a market for a more complex one, native to the os (like a playstation eyetoy)? how come there are almost no options for alternative input device that use your feet for example...there are a couple foot pedals that are marketed as simple tools for transcript (one pedal is play, the other is pause), and for car games...wouldn't a foot pedal be great for alt-tabbing, or popular key combinations like copy paste, enter, space, etc? different types of sensors (accelerometer, color, pressure, touch, proximity, light, etc) are pretty cheap nowadays, so wouldn't it be nice to have usb hardware that do enhance the computer experience? for example, map an application to a wooden yellow block, put it infront of the sensor, and bam! application opened, take it away and application closes, or minimizes. Or have an accelerometer in a glove so you can use it as a mouse, or create a trackpad big enough (like a wacom tablet) that would work the same as a laptop trackpad, but instead of using a finger, you use the palm of your hand.

There are so many possibilities. For example, a simple motion sensor attached to the back of your screen. You hit your screen softly, and bam! alt-tab your in the next window (someone did this with a powerbook).

Or, for example, mice are pretty cheap nowadays...connect two of them to a pc, and you could simulate simple multitouch (if the OS allowed two pointers at the same time), you could grab a photo from the corners and resize it, just like we've seen in every multitouch screen demo.

or something more analog, like having a 'mini-keyboard' with two buttons, to perform simple macros (copy paste).

I've seen a lot of interest in these types of 'experiments' from the 'do it yourself' communities...why is there no commercial interest for nicer input devices? Multitouch screens aren't the final solution, motion tracking either, but it seems like every one is following that trend.

I think interfaces could be enhanced not just by interaction with the screen. You could have small usb toys that notify you when you have a new email (that exists as a toy) or small periphericals to display your feeds or twitter (that also exists, but not as common). Your phone could hook up to your pc to display info (like a list of running programs, or your cpu or battery status). You could have a light sensor that checks if it's day or night (more exact if connected to the internet) or if your lights are on or off, and set settings on the pc according to that (simple changes like wallpapers, or stuff like power settings, screen brightness, etc). I think macs do that with the keyboard (sense lowlight conditions and turn the keyboard leds on), but why don't they go beyond that? Why aren't there weird output devices like a buttonless mouse accompanied with a pad with two buttons: direction is controlled by your right hand, and actions by your left hand.

Or, why aren't companies making application specific hardware. For example, how many designers out there wouldn't love a simple cheap 20 key keyboard, which has the same layout as the toolbar in photoshop, and with little drawings of each key there, so you can choose the tool by pressing a key, making the experience of using photoshop more 'real'. A single purpose keyboard that only works with photoshop.

While it's true that you can achieve the same with keyboard shortcuts, or macro software like autohotkey and some a normal keyboard, but still, with some good marketing, and with a low price, people would by any kind of stuff (like a humping usb dog), so why not make more useful hardware?

A keyboard for dummies: one red button, one red button, and a black button. Push the black button, it opens your email application, push the green one, and the new mail screen appears, push it again, and it sends the email. Push the red button to check if there's new email, and it'll blink if there is new email. Simple stuff, but wouldn't people buy that for their grandmas who don't know how the interwebs work?

Or a twitter branded secondary webcam, with software integrated to twitter. Click a button on the webcam, it takes a photo and automatically sends it to twitter.

Or for example, a rounded pad, where you put your coffee mug. It tracks it weight, so it could intelligently tell how many cups of coffee you've drank a day. Or a simple one button peripherical, push it every time you want to track something...the software is a simple counter...so, for example, you use it to count how many cigarettes you smoke a day.

Or a lot of freelancers track time...use a color sensor and different color blocks, each block map to a project. Put the block infront of the sensor, and it starts tracking time for that project, move it away, and tracking stops.

A more complex device like a 'function maker / calculator' to be used with excel, click on a cell, then grab the 'calculator' type a function, and the cell is updated.

Toys like an accelerometer attached to a hat. You incline your head, and the window infront of you also rotates. So you can work or play with your head rotated. Or it could be used for more useful stuff. Hit ctrl, move your head to point to your second monitor, and the window follows.

usb elbow buttons that you can attach to a chair. Want to copy, hit left button with your elbow, paste, hit right button.

My main point is, why has there been no commercial evolution in the interaction with the pc...your environment basically reduces to a screen, keyboard and mouse, and so much potential is wasted, if you could use your body, chair, feet, even desk as an input device. And output devices seem mostly limited to your screen, while you could have all sorts of analog output devices. Why aren't serious companies doing that? I'm sometimes amazed that the most amazing advanced stuff is developed for toys, not for really useful applications.

[random25]

How about Soap ?

[jAQUAN]

Just wait until Retina Based Mouse Control is affordable. After that is mind mapping. Advertisers would be able track if you looked at their banner without you having to rollover it.

[silverx2]

Argo buy yourself a powerball.

i used to have horrible horrible pain in my wrists for 3 days at a time at least one a month, the powerball worked that right the **** out, now soon as i start to feel any discomfort ill just use my powerball for about an hour while i watch tv and im good to go.

[gerbick]

I thought you were building up to your "Richard Gere" experiment.

[WannaBe_80z]

Buying expensive hookers?

[Frets]

The eyes don't track as easily as one would imagine. It would be a workout just to control ones eye flow.

Touch pads are underrated an under available.
The problem with touchpads on laptops is thier posistion. If they were positioned according ergonomics the touch pad for right hand users would be situated under the numkeys

[WannaBe_80z]

what about lefties?

[gerbick]

Buying expensive hookers?

mouse. gerbil. he's moving on up.

[WannaBe_80z]

one step at a time.

eels next.

[argonauta]

The eyes don't track as easily as one would imagine. It would be a workout just to control ones eye flow.

Touch pads are underrated an under available.
The problem with touchpads on laptops is thier posistion. If they were positioned according ergonomics the touch pad for right hand users would be situated under the numkeys

I think one of the main problems is that there's no real integration between input devices. You have to move away from the keyboard to move the mouse, then position the hand again to start typing. I think one cool thing about laptops is the distance between keyboard and pad is very small.

Also, how many people really use the numpad on laptops (you have to press the function key to turn it on/off, unless you have some huge laptop which includes an extra numpad?). Also, the problem of moving the trackpad to the right is that it'd be obstrusive when you want to type.

I think the mouse should evolve more, and get integrated with keyboard functionality (for example, the back forward buttons should be mapped to control and shift by default). I think that a foot pedal should become standard for all pcs, just to press the ctrl key. That alone would make things easier, as you could press shortcut keys easily without repositioning your left hand.

The keyboard is so last century. The qwerty layout exists because of a mechanical problem in old typewritters. Why haven't pc makers pushed towards a more ergonomic key layout? Is there a way to switch to a dvorak layout in any os (there probably is in linux), or a way to remap keys in an os without extra software?

I think software and input devices are way behind on where they should be.
For example, the mouse is a very natural device, what you do outside the screen, moving the mouse, gets translated in the screen in a very natural way...somebody that hasn't every used a mouse could understand the concept of dragging a mouse, because it's natural. But two examples:

right click and alt-tab. Do you find it natural to right click to get the context menu? For me the right click menu seems more like a 'pull' action and not 'push'/click...so i would say it'd be better if you could lift the right side of the mouse a bit, to pull the right click menu?

Or going through windows with the alt-tab. That's very unnatural, and it's something that every pc user uses at some point. A clickwheel would seem a more natural way through browse windows.

How come mice don't have some sort of inclination sensor, sort of like a joystick and mouse combined. You drag it to the right, and also incline it to the right, and the cursor moves faster. Or with some technology like that it'd be more natural to perform actions like alt-tab, or right clicking.

Or how about the click. Why is clicking almost the only way you can perform an action. For example, a pressure sensitive mouse would notice when you are just moving around a scrollbar, or if you are trying to grab it and drag it. Mouse inclination and speed of mouse could become actions like going back in the browser history.

Anyway, my point is that interfaces and input devices suck. You could even say that about newer technologies like touchscreens, or motion tracking. They still focus on the same old paradigms of click, drag, minimize, maximize.

I'm not an apple fanboy, but I think that one of their small interface details is a huge improvement on interfaces: the os can detect if you're just clicking or if you're click and dragging...effectively eliminating the need of a scrollbar.

Ok, back to freaking work.

[Jujumon]

i would think that currently keyboard and mouse, in their simplest form, just work. u can sometimes unconsciously input functions such as alt+tap so quick with ur fingers. it is almost like u just think about switching programs and it just happens for u.

but if i were to guess, touch screen and motion sensor like Wii would gradually cross over to PC as well.

[gerbick]

dude. looking above... my advice is simple.

type less

my invoice is in the mail.

[zakp0]

You wouldn't have problems with your wrist if you weren't such a frequent mastur.. err.. I mean, what kinda problems are you having with your wrist? I ended up buying a Saitek Cyborg mouse that has a physically adjustable size, meaning I wouldn't feel uncomfortable after prolong use since I could adapt the mouse's size to my hands.

[el-Ignoramus]

So Argo you foot fetish is showing up dude...

And it STINKS!!

How about they stop all this crap and focus more on Voice Command, wouldn't that be better

Next thing AI advanced enough to talk to your PC in your everyday language instead of Barking off commands, repeating them, repeating them again and finally swearing at your PC

[jAQUAN]

Something that's been bugging me along those lines argo is the lack of separation display and input devices from the cpu. I should be able to forward my display output to virtually any screen in my house.

Per you input complaints, your solutions mostly involve adding more hardware


The key is to get rid of it altogether. Next to thought control, a learning AI would make the greatest impact. If your comp can get to know you well enough, most operations would take on the nature of predictive text where the completed task is previewed until you accept or change course. An entire web project could be created simply by creating a folder in your client folder including a shortcut in your ftp client, create an svn repo, create a db and any other menial repetitive tasks that you usually do when starting a new site. That's a hell of lot less input.

[argonauta]

So Argo you foot fetish is showing up dude...

And it STINKS!!

shut up, or i'll make you lick my feet, again!

How about they stop all this crap and focus more on Voice Command, wouldn't that be better

Next thing AI advanced enough to talk to your PC in your everyday language instead of Barking off commands, repeating them, repeating them again and finally swearing at your PC

I wouldn't have a problem with that, as long as it's multilingual. I switch from spanish to english every 2 minutes, and I hate how you can only use one language for everything. That's why I have spelling checkers turned off, because you write in one language, spelling checker set for another, so all the text is underline as mistakes.

The key is to get rid of it altogether. Next to thought control, a learning AI would make the greatest impact. If your comp can get to know you well enough, most operations would take on the nature of predictive text where the completed task is previewed until you accept or change course. An entire web project could be created simply by creating a folder in your client folder including a shortcut in your ftp client, create an svn repo, create a db and any other menial repetitive tasks that you usually do when starting a new site. That's a hell of lot less input.

well, you still need hardware in some form or another (like a cable connecting to your brain, or some special brain helmet and tracking devices for movement).

I think that at this point, some technologies aren't ready for consumer products, but there's definitely a lot that can be improved with existing technologies in input devices.

For example, we don't have some ai software that understands that you want to create a new web project, however, you can create a macro that creates all the folders, files, ftp connections, etc (i'm thinking silverlight or autohotkey). Having extra hardware to control those macros saves a lot of time. I guess in a few years we could get rid of all the extra hardware, but nowadays you need it and almost no one provides it.

I think the main idea is to make input devices more natural (for which perfect solutions are movement tracking, voice control, even thought control as some have mentioned) so that the pc environment isn't limited to just a screen keyboard and mouse. The idea is that the hardware in that environment becomes part of the environment, so you don't even notice it.

[jAQUAN]

For example, we don't have some ai software that understands that you want to create a new web project, however, you can create a macro that creates all the folders, files, ftp connections, etc (i'm thinking silverlight or autohotkey). Having extra hardware to control those macros saves a lot of time. I guess in a few years we could get rid of all the extra hardware, but nowadays you need it and almost no one provides it.

Either way you're talking about a product revolution. You're not going to find support for elbow-buttons in any OS if only a handful of peripherals are available. Not to mention the ergonomic stress testing for such a device that may or may not even be helpful to the vast majority of users. They say good design is when you can't take anymore away from it and yet still perform the intended task. An era of utility input devices would only be a brief failed interim between now and a time of more seamless computing. Seems time would better spent preparing for the inevitable. More hardware has never been a trend.

[argonauta]

Either way you're talking about a product revolution. You're not going to find support for elbow-buttons in any OS if only a handful of peripherals are available. Not to mention the ergonomic stress testing for such a device that may or may not even be helpful to the vast majority of users. They say good design is when you can't take anymore away from it and yet still perform the intended task. An era of utility input devices would only be a brief failed interim between now and a time of more seamless computing. Seems time would better spent preparing for the inevitable. More hardware has never been a trend.

I see a contradiction there. An era of more seamless computing needs hardware anyway. You can't interact with anything digital without some sort of input device, like a mic for voice control, cams for movement tracking, gloves for minority report type interface. So, hardware development is a must.

Also, while it's true that a boom in peripherals development would give a bunch of fails, I guess it would bring a bunch of good ideas as well. Yes, elbow buttons might be a total fail, but some other ideas might actually work.

I think there's definitely a market for new input devices, some not just a trend until the new real stuff comes out, but some actually a transition. Accelerometers, for example, are now being included in phones, even mp3 players, game controllers (wii), so I wouldn't find it crazy that they could be integrated for pc as well (inside the screen or as peripherals, or part of mice).

Also, OS native support is something that has to come for technologies that demand it. Touchscreens have been out there for years, but they haven't gained a good portion of the market, maybe one for the price, but also because os supports for touchscreens is awful (windows touchscreen support for example seems to be a crippled version of controlling a pc with a mouse)....but now you see the big interest in multitouch interfaces and actual interest in enhancing the OS for those input devices.

I started using pcs late in life (97 or so), and I'm amazed at how few the OS has evolved in terms of interaction with the real world. Compare windows vista to windows 3.1: same mouse interaction, same keyboard interaction, double clicking, right click, selecting, etc...everything has remain the same (maybe one of the greatest improvements in the mouse was the scrollwheel).
The OSs have evolved a lot: better graphics, better software, better drivers. The mouse has evolved a lot as well, from a brick, to a more ergonomic device with at least 3 more buttons, more precision, etc...but the interaction between the mouse and the OS hasn't changed at all.

[jAQUAN]

Necessity is the mother of invention. In the real world we manipulate the things around us with our hands, it was a natural precursor to a point and click interface. Good workflow is taking the shortest path, minority report gloves remain to be seen if it would actually speed up anyone's workflow. It's not cost effective without demand and frankly only 3d artists stand to benefit from that immediately. I'm by no means suggesting the current way of doing things is predestined, just that you're not the first one to make these obeservations. I'm sure many companies in a position to do something about it have tried and tested many failed attempts.

About fifteen years ago I saw these two-part input devices for 3d apps consisting a normal drafting puck for one hand and a hockey-puck looking dial for the other. Between the two you were supposed to be able to move things around in 3d space. I never met a 3d artist who didn't hate them but I guess you gotta crawl before you can walk.
http://gizmodo.com/374280/spacenavig...d-life-avatars

Reducing physical movement is a key ergonomic tenant (when not using wiifit) and I just think the era of AI pci cards are closer than we think. IMO, minority report gloves would just lead to a lot of spilled coffee.