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Thread: [DISC] MochiCoins

  1. #1
    Pencil Farmer cadin's Avatar
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    [DISC] MochiCoins

    Alright Squize, I'll take the bait...

    What do you guys think about MochiCoins?
    (Microtransaction system for Flash games).

    If you haven't seen them yet, you can check them out in my game:
    Plant Pong Deluxe
    There are a few items you can get for free in the game, though you'll still need to create an account.

    I don't think the (rushed) implementation of them in Plant Pong is ideal, but I do think there is some potential to do some cool stuff with it (and hopefully to make some cash too).

    For most Flash games, especially for those in the scope of what I typically make, I think it will work best to use them to allow players to purchase game 'enhancements'. Meaning that one could play the game normally without buying anything, but people who enjoy the game could get extras and cheats for a small price.

    For larger and more complex games I think you could even push it farther into something like a try-to-buy system.

    Discuss...

  2. #2
    Senior Member Alluvian's Avatar
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    Something like this unfortunately invalidates some of the free license agreements out there. Like I don't think the free license for TweenLite/Max would allow for microtransactions.

  3. #3
    Pencil Farmer cadin's Avatar
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    Possibly.
    Ideally you would be able to make enough money from the sales to afford the paid license though. If you're not making that much money from it, then it's probably not worth your time to implement the coins system in the first place.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Alluvian's Avatar
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    Without asking for details you may not be comfortable giving, have you had much success with your implementation of mochi coins in the game you linked?

    The game I am working on now would might work with micropayments. It is a dungeon crawl game and selling new dungeons or character classes would make sense for it. I am using TweenMax right now so definately not something I would do for launch. If the game was popular I could maybe offset licensing fees with it though.

    Hard to tell if micro transactions or just ads would work better. With ads I could try and keep things fresh by trickling out content and keeping an active email list that informs players when little additions are made (intentionally staggering content release to hopefully draw players back for another few games each time). They might be less likely to come back if they knew they had to pay a buck for the new content.


    Micro transactions have certainly been successful in the past, but it really seems to me to be something to add after the fact to a successful game instead of something to launch with. Flash success seems to be a really random thing. Some great games just don't get much attention while other games which are just another lame variation on 'how far can you jump/throw/fly' become popular.
    Last edited by Alluvian; 06-25-2009 at 04:49 PM.

  5. #5
    Custom User Title Incrue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alluvian View Post
    Something like this unfortunately invalidates some of the free license agreements out there. Like I don't think the free license for TweenLite/Max would allow for microtransactions.
    humm...same with box 2d?

  6. #6
    Senior Member tonypa's Avatar
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    Im a bit worried that hackers find these locked swfs good targets. Because the stuff you get from coins still has to be included within swf, it means it can be decompiled and unlocked too. Once the hacked version gets out, all those game portals will use it instead of your official version. Does it feature any new security stuff?

  7. #7
    Custom User Title Incrue's Avatar
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    Nonoba has a stuff like that, dont seems to be working:
    http://www.nonoba.com/developers/for...nonoba-payment

  8. #8
    Pencil Farmer cadin's Avatar
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    have you had much success with your implementation of mochi coins in the game you linked?
    Not really.
    Currently I'm making more from the ads than from sales of the in-game content.
    I think a game could potentially do very well though with the right audience and the right items for sale.
    Plant Pong isn't a hugely popular game and I don't think the items I have for sale are particularly compelling. It's mostly an experiment for me at this point.

    They might be less likely to come back if they knew they had to pay a buck for the new content.
    Very true.
    Again, I think it will depend on the game. Some will be able to get away with selling that type of content and some won't. I think a good option would be to give away the new levels for free, but offer superfluous extras for a fee (cheat codes/items, new clothes for characters, etc).

    Once people get more used to the system I think it will become easier to sell content as well. Especially since people will be more willing to buy something if they already have some coins sitting in their account. At that point it's less like spending real money.

    it really seems to me to be something to add after the fact to a successful game instead of something to launch with. Flash success seems to be a really random thing. Some great games just don't get much attention while other games which are just another lame variation on 'how far can you jump/throw/fly' become popular.
    I totally agree.

  9. #9
    Pencil Farmer cadin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incrue View Post
    humm...same with box 2d?
    Box2D uses a free zlib/libpng license so it shouldn't matter.

  10. #10
    Pencil Farmer cadin's Avatar
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    @tonypa:
    I don't think there are any new security features, but I'm not that worried about it.
    Sure you might lose some potential revenue if someone posts a hacked version, but you will definitely lose that revenue if you never use the system in the first place.

    There will always be thieves and bootleggers, it's just something we'll have to live with.

  11. #11
    Zombie Coder EvilKris's Avatar
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    Call me slow to jump on the bandwagon but this is the first time I ever heard of MochiCoins. After doing the research I think it's a terrific idea- that if properly utilized and safe-guarded could provide a decent career to the many casual coders who would like to ride the Flash freelancer train full-time instead of only after the day job. With the right business strategy I bet some games would have the potential to make not just thousands, but millions of dollars.

    I can see it working very well in the case of say, a game that has 5 levels and you can play half (so you're getting you're advergame income already) and then just as the player is getting hooked you ask for a small fee, say $0.50, to continue. 50 cents, come on, NOBODY is going to whine about that. In fact, even if the game does get leaked and people discover they've paid for nothing, I don't think anyone is going to p*ss&moan, after all it's a kind of charity that all goes towards the developer making great games of the same calibre. The extra $$$ will motivate some into developing top-quality professional level games, but at the same time the indy section of the industry will still exist and available for all.

    It's good that Flash is at a point where the casual coder harbours real earning power- not quite the time for major gaming companies to start dipping their fingers in yet.

    Real slap on the back for Mochi for doing a good job and always coming out with great and creative ideas. I'll definitely be looking into MochiCoins for my next project.

  12. #12
    Pencil Farmer cadin's Avatar
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    You're not too slow. It's brand new--still in private beta. I don't think they've even made any official announcements yet.

    Again I think the success is going to come down to how well they do getting people to sign up for (and fund) accounts. I might balk at paying 50 if I have to get out my wallet, but if it's only going to cost me 400 'coins' from my account then I wouldn't think twice.

    That's part of the reason iPhone games are so successful. Since they already have your credit card on file you just press Buy without even thinking about it. You never have that moment to reconsider when you're actually getting out your wallet to make the payment.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Alluvian's Avatar
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    Right, the impulse buys will only work for those who already have coins in their mochi accounts.

    The people who will balk at 50 cents are the ones who have to stop playing your game, do some research on what mochi coins IS, then register for mochi coins, probably requiring email verification, and then pull out their wallets, and then probably buy a lot more than 50 cents worth of coins, all just to play a few more levels in a flash game????

    That is crazy. It will only work if Mochi coins gets big to the point where most avid flash gamers already have an account with a few bucks worth of coins just burning a hole in their account pockets. But if that does happen, then it will be very nice as the impulse buys will be an easy sell.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Pazil's Avatar
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    The only problem I see is what Alluvian mentioned. Many many casual gamers won't even know what MochiCoins is, and it would be hard to target just them. I wouldn't suggest the "pay .50$ to keep playing" model, as that would piss them off. Instead, sell it off differently, and make everyone think they're playing the full game. Between levels or something, you can show offers of "extra" levels, another campaign, more weapons, everything for the low low price of 1-2$. This way, casual gamers won't get annoyed while playing, as they feel the real deal and genuineness of the game, and the ones that REALLY fall in love with the game, will take the time to look up MochiCoins, or already have an account, etc.

    I think the best way to exploit MochiCoins the most, will be by hiding it the best in your game...don't really blend it, but stow it away as to not really interfere.

    P.
    Last edited by Pazil; 06-26-2009 at 01:34 PM. Reason: Forgot my little "P." signature...
    WIP-ZOMBIES

    I love vegetarians! More meat for the rest of us!

  15. #15
    Hype over content... Squize's Avatar
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    I imagine Mochi will give you some free coins at sign up, just to get the ball rolling.

    It's the same with everything though, I don't have a credit card so I can't buy things from the Xbox arcade, I have to buy a points card ( With my debit card ) from Amazon.

    Cadin, good thread mate I seem to have been talking micro-transactions everywhere recently so I'm a bit burnt out ( Yeah, I'm a hypocrite ) but as soon as that passes I'll be sure to post some questions here, as I have a few.

    Squize.

  16. #16
    Pencil Farmer cadin's Avatar
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    Pazil:
    I think you're mostly right.
    It will be a balance though. You want the pay features to be visible enough that people know they're there, but you don't want it to be to bothersome or pushy for those that won't be interested.

    Squize:
    I'm not sure if they are giving free coins for signing up, but you can get free coins by completing some product trial offers (surveys and whatnot).

    You can fund your account with PayPal so you shouldn't need a credit card (PayPal can be linked to a regular bank account).

    There's still the problem of young kids who don't have any means for online payment. I guess this is a huge issue in the MMO space where micro-transactions are a huge revenue source. In Asian countries where these games are super popular I think kids can buy small denomination point cards with cash at brick & mortar stores.

    I'm a bit burnt out on this as well at the moment. There's a lot of talk right now, but we're all going to have a while still to see how everything plays out.
    There's a thread going on MochiAds about this right now too:
    https://www.mochiads.com/community/f...mochicoins#172

    The Mochi guys are on there answering some general questions, but still keeping pretty tight lipped about the exact details.

  17. #17
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    Great discussion guys! We've been learning a lot about what's working and not working in the few games that have launched so far. We'll be putting our research into case studies to better inform the community on how others have successfully implemented MochiCoins.

    Here's an article on TechCrunch about MochiCoins.

    http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/06/25...-are-stunning/
    Jameson
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    MochiKit : Making JavaScript Suck Less

  18. #18
    Pencil Farmer cadin's Avatar
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    Speak of the devil...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cadin View Post
    Speak of the devil...
    yarr
    Jameson
    Mochi Media

    MochiAds : The Ad Network for Flash Games
    MochiBot : Flash Tracking & Analytics
    MochiKit : Making JavaScript Suck Less

  20. #20
    Senior Member Alluvian's Avatar
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    @cadin, RE MMOs.
    This all pretty much started with the asian MMOs and has spilled over slowly into the US, some of the asian games are relatively popular here like Maple Story, and then you have games like Puzzle Pirates, and Free Realms that fund themselves through microtransactions. My wife works for SOE, so I don't want to go into details on Free Realms as I am fuzzy on where the line is between public and private info.

    The big companies are definately catching on, SOE, and Cartoon Network as well with their MMO FuzionFall. Whether big projects like that can be profitable on microtransactions is yet to be seen. Puzzle Pirates has cut out a nice niche, but that is much smaller on the dev end than something like FreeRealms

    I just find it odd that the US companies are so heavily targeting the child demographic. Sure, a child can annoy their mom for $5 here or $10 there, but I think adults would be far more likely to fall for impulse buys. A child has a pretty fixed income. Adults have all that beer money waiting to be spent on something else.

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