Health Care reform

[ViRGo_RK]

Alright let's run this thread in reverse.

Pinko Commies want to give everyone free health care at the expense of taxing everyone, even healthy people.

Nazi Reagonite Republicans want all the poor people to be sick.



Your thoughts?

[gerbick]

**** yes! Insert a rusty needle that a dead hooker was buried with after she stole it from death row and shared it with her 11 year old heroin addicted daughter into everybody and let God sort them out.

[dddwhite]

My position kinda depends, am I sick or healthy?

[random25]

The real problem is that no one cares if someone dies, they only care about getting paid.

People don't become doctors because they want to help people anymore, they only do it to make butt loads of money.

I have seen many people die because the couldn't afford proper treatment.

[TallGuyLittleCar]

The real problem is that human beings evolved to die, so as to further evolution.

Most americans don't really take care of their bodies.

[random25]

I guess I am just bitter after watching my dad die from cancer.

[hanratty21]

random - I seem to remember you posting about the high price of cigs sometime back. Have you quit smoking yet? If not, this seems like a much more proactive approach to address the issue of health care rather than looking for a more socialized one...

I'm not saying your dad was a smoker, or that is the direct cause, but given a family propensity, and the overwhelming slew of facts surrounding cigs and cancer causation, it's definitely food for thought.

Just my 2 cents.

Most americans don't really take care of their bodies.

'zactly.

[random25]

I've quit smoking probably 50 times since he died.
I guess I just don't have the will power or self control needed to stop.
Please, someone come follow me around and kick my ass if you see me smoking!

He was a smoker, also had a history of cancer on his moms side.
Could the cancer have been caused by asbestos exposure at work, or a genetic disposition to cancer, or the cigarettes, I'll never know for sure.

He worked at a company for 20 years insulating walk in freezers, when he got sick they "laid him off", screwed him out of his 401k, and dropped him from their insurance.

He was getting better, but as soon as he was no longer insured the doctors just sent him home to die.

I first witnessed the death of a family member when I was in 3rd grade, my dads mom who raised me and my sister, she was the closest thing to a mother I ever had, she died from an ulcer, and from that time on there was at least one person in my family that died almost every year.

I cant even tell you how many friends and family members I have seen die a slow painful death in their own homes.
All because they couldn't afford medical care.

Most americans don't really take care of their bodies.

Most Americans don't really know how,
blame it on the education system, blame it on the parent not teaching their children, blame it on there being no enforced requirements for people to reproduce.
My dad grew up in the 50s, they didn't know the risks involved with tobacco back then.
Tobacco companies used marketing directed at kids back then, he started smoking at 13.

Millions of Americans have died simply because they couldn't afford medical care.
Its not about evolution.
Its not about survival of the fittest.
Its about who has the money to help a greedy doctor finance their new speed boat.


Do some people deserve to die a slow painful death?
Sure.
Did my dad?
No, he worked hard and had the means to pay for his treatments until the company he worked for screwed him.
My dad died because of someones greed.

[FlashLackey]

This is why health care should not be tied to employers.

However, over-all, our current system does a better job against cancer than nations with universal health care.

[Loyal Rogue]

However, over-all, our current system does a better job against cancer for those who can afford the treatment than nations with universal health care.

Fixed.


I agree that healthcare shouldn't be tied to your job.

[FlashLackey]

So, you think it's better to have more people die of cancer each year than current rates?

[Loyal Rogue]

No, I just think there should be better options for those that can't afford treatment in the first place.
No reason we can't figure out how to offer all Americans the best of both worlds.

[FlashLackey]

I agree with that.

I just don't think that government run health care is the right solution for that problem since it has not performed as well as our current system in countries where it has been tried.

[Loyal Rogue]

I think we do a better job of government run fire departments and police departments than most other countries with those... maybe we can do a better job with healthcare also.
If anybody can get a combination private and public healthcare system to work it should be the US.

[random25]

I think the government should finance national health care but they should not run it.
Maybe if they just covered the hospitals actual expenses including reasonable salary's.

The money could come from places it should not be going now.
We should stop policing the planet, and focus on defense and national prosperity.
Stop spending billions yearly to incarcerate non-violent non-predatory offenders.
We need to fix the problems in this country before we spend another dollar trying to help fix someone else's country.
There is no reason we shouldn't have the best health care in the world for every citizen. Our tax dollars are being spent unwisely.

[hanratty21]

random - I understand you're upset with the way things turned out with your family members, but there's way more that goes toward the cost of health care than doctors salaries, which, in my opinion, are FAR from over inflated. Here's a good view on that...
The links in that article go thru a whole series of articles and editorials about health care costs in the US and how they're broken down and where the 'fat' is. You better check with the lawyers, insurance companies and hospital administrators for better answers than some doctors new speedboat.

[FlashLackey]

I think we do a better job of government run fire departments and police departments than most other countries with those... maybe we can do a better job with healthcare also.
If anybody can get a combination private and public healthcare system to work it should be the US.

Are our fire and police departments better run than in other countries? How do we measure that? Are they run the same way?

I think that there are solutions to expanding coverage and affordability that don't require putting government in charge. Not many will complain about fire and police departments in the US. But, the list of other US government programs that under-perform is pretty long. Odds are, government health care would be in that crap list.

I think the government should finance national health care but they should not run it.

That's pretty much what McCain's health plan was. Government funded health care accounts but otherwise privately run.

I think that plan has a lot of merit. It expands health care to those that can't afford it without changing factors that have allowed our health care quality to remain the best in the world.

On top of such a program, removing incentives and requirements for employer provided health care would create more competition and lower prices as well.

[TallGuyLittleCar]

Most Americans don't really know how,

I would like to say first that you have my sympathies for those you have lost in your family. But if you are going to use your family in argument you should expect criticism of them and yourself in the argument. So keep that in mind reading my reply.

With all do respect saying most americans don't really know how to take care of themselves is utter total ****ing bull****. You don't know that drinking heavily isn't good. A hangover doesn't clue you into that. Somebody this day in age doesn't know that sugar and processed foods are not good for you? The shortness of breath and inability to walk a distance from being obeses isnt a clue? Remember that first cigarette you smoked.. how did that feel.

Sorry, society is much better off without that level of obtuseness. And goddamn if i want one ****ing penny of tax payer money going to that instead of a naturally occuring disease. Somebody that has abused their body over a lifetime is supposed to get money at the expensive of somebody born with a disease, an affliction caused by no action of their own.

blame it on the education system, blame it on the parent not teaching their children, blame it on there being no enforced requirements for people to reproduce.

lets blame violence on video games to. Perhaps we should elect a government to carefully monitor every thing we read and learn to protect us from ourselves.

My dad grew up in the 50s, they didn't know the risks involved with tobacco back then.

really.. why did the call them coffin nails.

Millions of Americans have died simply because they couldn't afford medical care.
...
Its about who has the money to help a greedy doctor finance their new speed boat.

And millions were saved because there were doctors. Because there were researchers. Some of those doctors and researchers were promoted by greed. If you have problem with the motivation of those in the health industry.. why arn't you in the health industry? Why.. because becoming a doctor is a major POA.

Health care was much cheaper 50 years ago.. but the ability to heal and keep people alive no where near it was today.

Do some people deserve to die a slow painful death?
Sure.
Did my dad?
No, he worked hard and had the means to pay for his treatments until the company he worked for screwed him.
My dad died because of someones greed.

Sounds like the greed of the company he worked for, not tobacco or the medical industry. How old was your dad when he died?

[TallGuyLittleCar]

I think we do a better job of government run police departments

fascist.

[silverx2]

Here in massachusetts having health care is mandatory. either from your job, or by personally going out and getting it from a third party.

If you do not have health care when its time to pay taxes you get penalized for not having it in the form of higher taxes.

Thats how it should be. dont want to take care of yourself? then we are going to take more money. and before you say "we cant afford it" yes you can, try harder. america has gone soft.