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Thread: Health Care reform

  1. #21
    pablo cruisin' hanratty21's Avatar
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    If I understand it correctly, the implementation of the Mass-hole plan wont be fully complete until 2010, and they are already seeing some insurmountable issues with it. They are on the right path with this though...by trying to force employers to provide some sort of plan to employees would cover a good portion of the uninsured in this country. The medicaid crowd will continue to be an issue though. Cali has tried a similar style plan over the years and has somehow failed each time.
    Last edited by hanratty21; 06-25-2009 at 11:36 AM.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member random25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar View Post
    I would like to say first that you have my sympathies for those you have lost in your family. But if you are going to use your family in argument you should expect criticism of them and yourself in the argument. So keep that in mind reading my reply.
    Its hard for me to say, i see people eat until they cant walk, and I think how can you treat yourself like that?
    Or letting their kids gorge themselves on junk food.
    Meanwhile i am sitting there having a smoke.
    I guess the lack of education is actually in the self control / discipline area.

    I've always taken care of myself other than smoking.
    I started smoking at a time in my life when I would have been glad to die.
    Turns out that was the biggest mistake of my life.

    I don't want to pay for johnny porkchop to have a triple bypass, and I don't want anyone to have pay when my lungs fall out.

    But i also feel that a lack of money is not a good enough reason to let anyone die, even if it is their own fault.

    My dad was 45 when he died.
    I totally agree with everything you are saying, my perspective is just skewed due to my bitterness over loosing my dad when I just started to really get to know him.

    If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. Carl Sagan

  3. #23
    Not PWD ViRGo_RK's Avatar
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    I don't want to pay for johnny porkchop to have a triple bypass, and I don't want anyone to have pay when my lungs fall out.

    But i also feel that a lack of money is not a good enough reason to let anyone die, even if it is their own fault.
    And here, I imagine, is where the silent majority lies. In an intelligent, not righteous but conscientious area. The question is how to build a system to fit that.


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  4. #24
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by random25 View Post
    My dad was 45 when he died.
    I totally agree with everything you are saying, my perspective is just skewed due to my bitterness over loosing my dad when I just started to really get to know him.
    45. damn.
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  5. #25
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViRGo_RK View Post
    And here, I imagine, is where the silent majority lies. In an intelligent, not righteous but conscientious area. The question is how to build a system to fit that.
    Or perhaps the better question would be how do you unravel a system that supports it.

    I happen to believe the industrialization of food along with a lack of exercise are the key contributors to health related expenses in the united states. Yet large agriculture corporations (monsanto, tyson etc et) are so deep in the pockets of every politician (R and D) I doubt anything can really be done. In order to change this the health care system (and really the entire economy) must collapse.
    ONLY RON PAUL AND ALUMINUM FOIL CAN SAVE YOU NOW!
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  6. #26
    pablo cruisin' hanratty21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar View Post
    I happen to believe the industrialization of food along with a lack of exercise are the key contributors to health related expenses in the united states. Yet large agriculture corporations (monsanto, tyson etc et) are so deep in the pockets of every politician (R and D) I doubt anything can really be done. In order to change this the health care system (and really the entire economy) must collapse.
    Isn't this the self fulfilling part, though?
    Change needs to happen
    --> cant happen due to lobbyists from the agri businesses
    --> agri businesses create cheap plentiful food
    --> people want cheap, plentiful food (regardless of quality)
    --> people need to change eating habits, exercise
    --> change needs to happen (cycle starts again)
    Face it, we are a self serving society that wants to eat what we want, yet live forever, or at least longer than we should. If you want to live, eat right, don't smoke, get some exercise, go for a walk instead of playing COD4 with your cheeto-stained hands and life will be better. We need better quality than quantity of life.
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  7. #27
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    We need better quality than quantity of life.
    Besides me agreeing with damn near everything that TGLC has said... this statement is what needs to be focused on.

    But we've become a land of consumers.

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  8. #28
    Custom User Title Incrue's Avatar
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    You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.

    You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.

    You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.

    You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.

    You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.

    You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's
    initiative and independence.

    You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they
    could and should do for themselves.

    Abrahan Lincoln

  9. #29
    Spartan Mop Warrior Loyal Rogue's Avatar
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    Incrue, sorry to tell you you're a victim of a political hoax.
    Abraham Lincoln never spoke those words.
    That's actually a 1916 quote by William J. H. Boetcker, a religious leader and political conservative.
    (Don't feel bad, Reagan made the same error on national TV.)

    A conservative political group printed that quote in a 1942 pamphlet alongside some Lincoln quotes to try and give their views some legitimacy.
    While the rhetoric sounds reasonable when spun with that choice of words, unfortunately in the real world it's nothing but flowery false logic to justify the unequal distribution of wealth.

  10. #30
    Custom User Title Incrue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loyal Rogue View Post
    Incrue, sorry to tell you you're a victim of a political hoax.
    Abraham Lincoln never spoke those words.
    That's actually a 1916 quote by William J. H. Boetcker, a religious leader and political conservative.
    (Don't feel bad, Reagan made the same error on national TV.)
    A conservative political group printed that quote in a 1942 pamphlet
    That sux

  11. #31
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loyal Rogue View Post
    Incrue, sorry to tell you you're a victim of a political hoax.
    Abraham Lincoln never spoke those words.
    That's actually a 1916 quote by William J. H. Boetcker, a religious leader and political conservative.
    (Don't feel bad, Reagan made the same error on national TV.)

    A conservative political group printed that quote in a 1942 pamphlet alongside some Lincoln quotes to try and give their views some legitimacy.
    While the rhetoric sounds reasonable when spun with that choice of words, unfortunately in the real world it's nothing but flowery false logic to justify the unequal distribution of wealth.
    Regardless of who wrote those lines, I believe that most of those points were well demonstrated in the case study of communist Russia.

    And Lincoln was also religious and conservative (depending though on how we are defining the term).
    Last edited by FlashLackey; 06-29-2009 at 05:52 AM.
    "We don't estimate speeches." - CBO Director Doug Elmendorf

  12. #32
    Retired SCORM Guru PAlexC's Avatar
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    One of the biggest problems to healthcare in this country is that we are not concerned with health, only curing ailments.

    We go to the doctor when we're sick. Not nearly go often enough for regular checkups. Doctors don't help us with lifestyle changes such as recommending stress reducing techniques, dietitian consults, therapy, pointing us to exercise regimens that would be beneficial or helping us quit smoking. We hear "lose weight", "get some exercise". Your healthcare provider won't spend dollar one to help you with those goals.

    We wait until something is wrong, then go to the emergency room.

    Why shouldn't your HMO offer you a plan or system for helping you quit smoking? Why can't a gym membership be partially subsidized? Why doesn't your HMO open a chain of them? Why don't the HMO's try to influence agricultural policy so we don't produce a glut of corn?

    Because it's cheaper to do nothing, and deny as many claims as possible when the come rolling in.

    Just had a baby? Get back to work. In the union? That baby is classified as a self-inflicted injury, it counts against your sick time. Two parents working with a newborn? F*ck you, too bad if you can't afford daycare. Burnt out? Here's your two weeks, use them wisely.

    We don't care about quality of life in the US, we care about your ability to spend.

    How can government be any worse than the private sector?
    Last edited by PAlexC; 06-29-2009 at 01:17 PM.
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  13. #33
    Senior Member WannaBe_80z's Avatar
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    I think it's time for all of us to pitch our funds/abilities together and just get a private island.
    "Let us declare nature to be legitimate. All plants should be declared legal, and all animals for that matter. The notion of illegal plants and animals is obnoxious and ridiculous."- T. McKenna

  14. #34
    Retired SCORM Guru PAlexC's Avatar
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    Welcome to FK Island: No fat chicks.
    "What really bugs me is that my mom had the audacity to call Flash Kit a bunch of 'inept jack-asses'." - sk8Krog
    ...and now I have tape all over my face.

  15. #35
    Senior Member WannaBe_80z's Avatar
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    Time to go scour ebay. They always have islands for sale
    "Let us declare nature to be legitimate. All plants should be declared legal, and all animals for that matter. The notion of illegal plants and animals is obnoxious and ridiculous."- T. McKenna

  16. #36
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAlexC View Post
    One of the biggest problems to healthcare in this country is that we are not concerned with health, only curing ailments.
    Does Preventive Care Save Money? Health Economics and the Presidential Candidates

    Quote Originally Posted by PAlexC View Post
    Because it's cheaper to do nothing, and deny as many claims as possible when the come rolling in.
    Isn't the idea though that we are paying more than we should for the health care we are getting? In other words, if we could find ways to make it less expensive (via competition for example), people could afford more for the same cost or less.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAlexC View Post
    We don't care about quality of life in the US, we care about your ability to spend.
    I think that quality of life is a cousin to excess for many people.
    "We don't estimate speeches." - CBO Director Doug Elmendorf

  17. #37
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashLackey View Post
    In other words, if we could find ways to make it less expensive (via competition for example), people could afford more for the same cost or less.

    You know because competition is really what I want when a surgeon is cutting me open.

    Competition doesn't magically reduce the price of an object. It requires competing companies to offer similar things with slightly different variations, or different manufacturing distribution methods. Medicine(not including pharmecuticals), unlike a box of mashed potatoes or automobile pretty much has one right way of doing things.

    Cutting edge or advanced health care has to stay expensive to fund further research.
    ONLY RON PAUL AND ALUMINUM FOIL CAN SAVE YOU NOW!
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  18. #38
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    And when two options do something the same way, people compare cost. Don't they?
    "We don't estimate speeches." - CBO Director Doug Elmendorf

  19. #39
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashLackey View Post
    And when two options do something the same way, people compare cost. Don't they?
    Indeed they due. But what are your two options when facing cancer.. or a triple bypass?
    ONLY RON PAUL AND ALUMINUM FOIL CAN SAVE YOU NOW!
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    Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

  20. #40
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Assuming that there is a correct medical solution and equal competency, you could have the option between different costs.
    "We don't estimate speeches." - CBO Director Doug Elmendorf

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