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Thread: [Disc] Is it the Summer holidays here already ?

  1. #61
    ********* mentuat's Avatar
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    I come here multiple times a day, and I'm starting to finally realise that's just out of habit.
    I think I came to a similar realisation a little while back and just kinda slowly drifted away

    I too think the ever widening range of coding ability actually makes people less able and inclined to help others on the board. Some have become so specialized or honed in new shiny ways it is difficult to adjust your mind-set to older ways of working.

    And thats not to say older ways are worse - a developer schooled in the dark arts of OOP, MVC, PVD and other unpleasant 3 letter abbrevations does not by virtue make for a better developer - particularly when it comes to games. It's all about the creativity and that might well come from the interesting contortions of poking AS2 where it probably shouldn't go

    personally speaking I haven't directly worked as a flash developer for about 8 months and though I might be veering back part-time in some game-making capacity I don't really miss it or the direction that 'proper' development in flash is going - I have no love for frameworks and there are much more competent technical developers than me these days

  2. #62
    ....he's amazing!!! lesli_felix's Avatar
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    Hey Jim,

    I love to keep my toolset as simple as possible, and I still think there's plenty of mileage in that school of development. Frameworks are always generic by nature and never quite as optimised as something completely tailored can be.

    If you're not a flash dev, what are you up to these days?

  3. #63
    ********* mentuat's Avatar
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    Hey Jim,

    I love to keep my toolset as simple as possible, and I still think there's plenty of mileage in that school of development. Frameworks are always generic by nature and never quite as optimised as something completely tailored can be.
    hey dude how's it going!

    ya I can totally see that frameworks have their place - I just don't think my brain was engineered that way. My toolset consists of a large hammer when pureMVC is waved in my face...

    If you're not a flash dev, what are you up to these days?
    I'm politely asking other clever people to do stuff instead at the mo - in some kind of pretend art-director role. Finding it kinda stressful and more involved but I think on balance I prefer it to flash development

  4. #64
    When in doubt ask Eager Beaver's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I stopped frequent visiting of this forum from the last one year.
    The main reason is that the responses to the threads are usually negative, depressing, name-calling, and discouraging.
    Any reference to your work is snubbed as spamming!
    The reviewers try to compare your work with the best quality of similar jobs
    done by highly skilled professionals. This discourages members to expose fully themselves (technically I mean) in these forums.
    Another problem is ago centered. The tendency seems to be "I am better than you-you SOB".
    In my opinion any flash work, that is games, and animations should be viewed as works of art such as paintings, and not as, so and so did a better job, or so and so animation/game is better. I think every animation/game developer is an artist first and a commercially successful businessman next.
    I wonder how many excellent animations/games don't see the light of the day,
    where as some average ones hit the front page, attract the attention of the players, and reviewers.
    In conclusion what I want to say is that we should change our attitude from egocentric sycophancy, to truly artistic and technical mindset.
    This would certainly improve the quality and popularity of this forum.
    All the best!
    <signature removed by admin>

  5. #65
    n00b LeechmasterB's Avatar
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    Hey guys, not sure if any of you remember me, too much lurking I guess.

    Anyhow I've also felt like the board was slowly crumbling. On one side there are tons of spam posts of "how to move a movieclip" ect. And the interesting posts clearly are very rare nowadays. Another reason apart from lack of "interesting" posts is that I only focus on AS3.0 now and try to stay away from AS2.0 even if its just to help someone with a problem, since usually they'd be better doing it from scratch either way.
    And last reason is may be that I usually felt there s not much interest in my posts and hence stopped doing them and started plainly lurking. Not to mention not having all that much time as I used to and trying to get my own flash stuff done.

    Anyhow this is not adding much to the discussion, but I personally would also welcome a place where there are less noob posts and more interesting game design or algorithmic related posts instead of how to move movieclips in as2.0. Or anything new or interesting flash game related thats actually worth reading.

    Oh and Squize it would be a loss to the forum if you quit posting as to a few other regulars or oldschoolers here (some of which have already vanished a couple years ago).


    Cheers all!
    I do stuff that does stuff...

    J-Force

  6. #66
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    recently I have been contacted by a few old friends from here that seem to visit this place still now and then and they were basically asking where I am, why I am not around anymore.
    Fil pointed me out to this thread, so I thought I might as well give my 2cents

    I am not happy with this place and I expressed that already many times in the past. People often thought I would be arrogant or unfriendly when I tried to correct their way of asking things and posting things , or when I was giving honest and real crits instead of just nice words.

    I found myself a new forum home (3d game industry related) where I post on a regular basis. At that board more hard crits are given and people are really thank full for them, because professional people give them.
    Overall the whole level is way more professional as this place thanks also to the content but also the average age of the people there (24+).

    But what really was the key for me leaving this place was the way, masses of newer/younger, people here ask things. It is often not very help- friendly at all. To often I had the feeling that if I would help the person:
    a.) its a way of doing work for that person (work = doing stuff to make money)
    b.) it means xtra work because the question is to generic (oh I wrote that so often) and often needs structure so I have to point out that he has to be more specific.
    c.) the user only cares if it fixes his stuff, does not need or really want to learn from it
    d.) wants to create the next WOW, GTA or whatever mass popular game that he sees with the eyes of a consumer and not a developer (and those are totally different worlds!)

    Another major thing is the commercial side of things here. This might be very personal and I might have bumped some known members here as well but I think as soon as money gets involved it changes things dramatically.
    a.) People are less willing to show and share what they are working on ("they might steal my code/ idea..."). Also NDA stuff if you work for a company.
    b.) Are more striving for making bucks compared to cool stuff (the later one is required to keep a community like this running). This also means that time = money and hence the stuff they make is often the same and rushed in a way without really exploring new stuff.
    c.) Pimp stuff at the end without sharing/ discussing stuff in between (for booth sides to learn/ improve). Hard crits or almost any crits are then of course less welcome because one is done with the project and of course it has been a hard job.

    oh well I think those are my main issues with this place. I'd love to have the old FK back as well but with the new swarm of newbies here dropping the overall quality of discussions and content, its not really that sexy for me sharing stuff here at all.
    And its not like I have nothing to do with Flash anymore; in fact I have been pretty bussy with AS3 and new engines, Flash/3dsmax projects and even some commercial AS3 game stuff which I can show in about a month or so.

  7. #67
    Senior Member bluemagica's Avatar
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    whoa, renderhjs? I thought you got abducted by the martians or something.....!

    Anyway, if all of you guys start leaving in search of "better places", then soon there won't be anymore Fk at all! Yeh there's a new swarm of noobs rather than beginners here, but it's not like there's no reason behind it! If you just keep moving from one place to another, sooner or later this noob wave is gonna hit everything!
    If you like me, add me to your friends list .

    PS: looking for spriters and graphics artists for a RPG and an Arcade fighting project. If you can help out, please pm me!

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  8. #68
    Senior Member tonypa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renderhjs View Post
    Another major thing is the commercial side of things here. This might be very personal and I might have bumped some known members here as well but I think as soon as money gets involved it changes things dramatically.
    I would expect 3d game industry related forum to be even more oriented toward business.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonypa View Post
    I would expect 3d game industry related forum to be even more oriented toward business.
    I am talking about something like this:
    http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=59196
    3578 posts so far just this year
    you don't see such commitment here

  10. #70
    file not found Captain_404's Avatar
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    So hey, we're talking about how things are starting to suck? I think I can get into that!

    I while ago, I flat out left this place, only coming here every now and then in hopes of seeing some really cool and inspirational stuff. Nothing so far.

    What I really miss is the inventiveness that used to be here. I don't know, there was a kind of creative energy to it. I felt like I could post some half-finished idea with stupid programmer graphics and glitching code and people could still see what I was getting at. Now it feels like the only things I can post are random programming questions (which I don't have so much anymore now that I'm quite a bit more experienced) and fully-finished game pimpings.

    To me, it feels like this placed has stopped being about creating games. It's not something you love anymore, it's your job.

    I guess I've kind of tried to distance myself from that. I generally stay away from mochiads and such just off of principle. I don't want it to be about the money, I want it to be about the game itself, about making the game, and about the player's experience with the game.

    This place doesn't feel like a safe place to toss around neat ideas now, it feels more like a business.

  11. #71
    2KHeroes / Sylvaniah designer luxregina's Avatar
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    Well ...as far as I'm concerned, FK went through a serie of changes that kinda left me behind.

    I remember, back in the day, it was the first site I would read, every morning, while sipping on my coffee... it was full of enthusiasm, it felt like a huge garage where everybody was experiencing, where everyone had a shot at collaborating with anyone, because it was all open, all for fun, all for pushing Flash forward to a somewhat legitimate gaming platform ...
    Lots of revivals, reskins, remakes of old games I was found of, lots of creativity out there ...

    Then, it became the race to technology - people forgot about making games, about having fun - most of the projects on this board where "engines" dropped as fast as a new one, a more efficient one, a "OOP this time, guys" one. Not being a coder, not being overly concerned by code optimization, I felt like I didn't really belong anymore - that added to the fact that many cool artists I enjoyed seing the work from also dropped the ball - Marmotte, Phreaks, Daydream, etc ... personnaly, I felt I had nothing to bring to the board : nobody really cared anymore about art, or game design - most discussions where about code optimization ... I started reading less often..

    Then, the whole "mochi-ads" bubble. in this case, that was cool, cos a lot more "finished" games were posted, but then, everybody kept dev secret, and the board was mostly a huge "pimp" blog, split between games with "pro" values (that don't need advices at all) and games that followed the trend, with more or less success...

    Now, i'm not sure what it is, but I end up reading this board once a month - just to track posts from old buds, and see where they are at. Plus, now that I do work in the game dev - meaning, professionally, I'm very restricted on what I can show, and it doesn't really belong here anyway.
    It's sad, because I really never found (not that I really looked either) another community that gave me the drive FK gave me at the beginning... and that might be the reason why I didn't really tried to make any "personnal/amateur" game in a while ...

    I'll end up quoting Captain 404, eventhough others said it too "To me, it feels like this placed has stopped being about creating games"
    and as I said earlier, I was an Artist on FK - there isn't much for me to help on anyway, nowadays

  12. #72
    Style Through Simplicity alillm's Avatar
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    I agree, that quote just sums it up I think. The creative energy has gone, pretty much completely. There’s no concepts, alphas, WIP threads with screen shots of progress, the few competitions we still have don't draw much attention because everyone is too busy. I can't remember the last colab thread that actually resulted in something being made (ok those things rarely got finished, but at least it added to the community spirit).

    Feels to me like a new place to hang out where creativity is the key, is what a lot of the developers here are after. It's just sad that in my opinion FK is past saving, simply because it would take a large number of people here to change their way of thinking all at the same time and I can't see that happening.

    Ali

  13. #73
    Zombie Coder EvilKris's Avatar
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    I post alpha's/WIP's etc over at newgrounds where the actual gamers are, lol.
    I tried to do it on FlashKit and mostly all you get is a couple of "Yeah, so?" style replies so I don't bother these days.

    Like lux said most of the guys on here sit around getting hard over new technology and game monetizing and don't actually discuss the premises behind game design. pinpoint the key elements in crafting better games and such.

    That being said, for coding advice and general mentoring (is that a real word?) FlashKit is the best.

  14. #74
    file not found Captain_404's Avatar
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    So, would anyone be interested in starting a forum that's more geared towards the discussion of Flash game creation?

    I'm thinking a place where we can post projects we're working on (there might be a private invite-only forum to avoid NDA's?), random experiments, interesting ideas, etc. Mostly just a place to talk about game ideas, and specifically flash game ideas.

    I'd say no discussion of monetary things, and I'd want to discourage newbies looking for hand-holding. (ie: "How do I make the keyboard work?" type of questions) Although help itself wouldn't be banned. I think if someone came with a very general question (how might I implement [idea] into a game?) then that's fine. No stupid questions.

    I guess, a forum geared towards post-beginner flash game designers.

  15. #75
    Senior Member bluemagica's Avatar
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    well, if anyone is interested, I can provide the hosting, and setup the site/forum!
    If you like me, add me to your friends list .

    PS: looking for spriters and graphics artists for a RPG and an Arcade fighting project. If you can help out, please pm me!

    My Arcade My Blog

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  16. #76
    Senior Member fil_razorback's Avatar
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    Count me in but I'm not over confident about the project.
    The more, the merrier as they say. And it's not easy to initiate mass emigration on the internet.

  17. #77
    Style Through Simplicity alillm's Avatar
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    Took the words right out of my mouth.

    Obviously from my previous posts I'm very much up for this and if somebody does start something they will have my full support, but starting a forum is not the easiest thing in the world. A large number of the devs here would have to join up and post on a regular basis for it to go anywhere.

    If it could get off the ground though then I think it would be great to have somewhere to go to show off what you're working on, see what your mates are doing and discuss interesting stuff. I also agree with Captain about no money talk, at least nothing that gets in the way of the creativity.

    Anyway, I'm in if it gets going .

    Ali

  18. #78
    Senior Member bluemagica's Avatar
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    well, with the dying FK, we have to make a start somewhere, so even four or five of us can get together, we will have a good enough chance!

    My idea of the site is:-
    1)A place for tutorials based on the repeated noob questions, in forums like fk. So that we can stop the noob rush!
    2)A forum in two parts, normal, and invite only! The normal sections are for normal question answers about problems, and based on the data from here, those who help out a lot, and those who are really passionate towards game development, will be invited to the invite-only forums, where people can actually talk about making good, enjoyable games, rather than how to make quick money!
    If you like me, add me to your friends list .

    PS: looking for spriters and graphics artists for a RPG and an Arcade fighting project. If you can help out, please pm me!

    My Arcade My Blog

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  19. #79
    Senior Member fil_razorback's Avatar
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    Why the tutorials and the public forum ? There are plenty of these all over the web and it takes additional time to set up and maintain.
    Let's make what we all miss : a good board. There's no reason to make another general site.

  20. #80
    Senior Member bluemagica's Avatar
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    It's not a general site actually!
    1) The tutorials are needed to bridge the void that has been created with the coming of as3. FK is mainly being flooded with noob questions, cause there are lack of proper tutorials! In old days, whenever people came up with a problem, we could send them to tonypa's tile based tutorials, or other thousands of as2 type tutorials available out there! But is there such a thing for as3? How many tutorials have been posted on FK in the days of as2, and since the coming of as3? Also, though there are few tutorials, those are mainly concept oriented which only those, who are familiar with programming can benefit from! Seriously, just one "how to move the mc in as3" tutorial, can get rid of a hundred of the same question being repeated over and over! And once written, we are done with it, no more need to maintain it, unless adobe comes up with something crazier!


    2) For the "normal" part of the forum, thats there so that beginners can get started, and we can evaluate who should actually be invited in the main group! You know, if you just think of devs and leave out the beginners, the void is just gonna grow!



    well in any situation, majority rules! but one thing for sure, if we do make this board, we need someone like squize, renderhjs, pazil,.... who are real devs, alongwith someone from among the passionate beginners on the board, so that there's a proper balance on the site! The type of site we are talking about cannot be maintained by mods or admins, but rather needs to be sustained by members, so we first need someone who actually knows what all devs from here would be looking for!
    If you like me, add me to your friends list .

    PS: looking for spriters and graphics artists for a RPG and an Arcade fighting project. If you can help out, please pm me!

    My Arcade My Blog

    Add me on twitter:

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