html5 iFAIL on the iPad

[mehmet22]

I thought html 5 was the answer to anything and everything on the internet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfmbZkqORX4

[WannaBe_80z]

This computer doesn't have speakers yet I watched 30 seconds of it- mesmerized by that guys head.

I'll watch it later with sound to see what's he's even crying about.

[mehmet22]

none of the demos work right on the iPad.

lol the guy does have a mesmerizing head.

[gerbick]

Do those demos even work on the desktop variant of Safari?

[mehmet22]

The demos work on my google chrome.

[WannaBe_80z]

You have Chrome on the ipad? Because that comparison doesn't really make sense. Sounds like just another way to bash the ipad and not the browser itself.

[mehmet22]

You have Chrome on the ipad? Because that comparison doesn't really make sense. Sounds like just another way to bash the ipad and not the browser itself.

I was replying to gerbick about the desktop browser. The video attacks the words of iSteve who said flash mouse events are not made for the touch screen world. He also pushes html5 to the developer community which does not function correctly on his own iPad.

[gerbick]

But Chrome's implementation isn't fully the same as Apple's webkit implementation. They don't get the same http://html5test.com score from what I remember.

[mehmet22]

Another html5 fail vs flash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVjIsL8qwNw

[argonauta]

But Chrome's implementation isn't fully the same as Apple's webkit implementation. They don't get the same http://html5test.com score from what I remember.

Which is better implemented?

And anyway, I think that's besides mehmet22's point.
If I understand correctly, Steve Jobs basically said: "flash was designed to be used with a mouse. New devices (mobiles) don't have mice, therefore flash is bad and will force developers to recode their sites to work in mobiles....so, you better use open standards like html5 and everything is magically fixed"...and the video shows that no, using html 5 doesn't mean everything works for the ipad automatically. If you want to make a site work on a mouseless device, then you need to design for a mouseless device...it's not flash issue, it's a design issue.

Flash is not good or bad, or worse or better than html 5. It's just a tool, and it depends on how you use it to make a site successful. The recent Steve Job's rant was full of lies, and minimized the useful use of flash to just watching videos.

[gerbick]

How is that besides his point? If the webkit implementation doesn't include certain portions of the HTML5 draft spec, it's gonna suck. And since HTML5 is only in draft spec form, it's gonna suck once you go "off the beaten" path.

And Chrome and Safari (mobile and desktop) while they're both based off webkit, they might not implement the same HTML5 draft spec portions around Canvas, et al. Thus... bad performance.

[FlashLackey]

I wonder if Jobs has ever heard the story The Emperor's New Clothes.

[argonauta]

How is that besides his point?

I saw three problems in the video, two of them due to design issues, and not due to the implementation or performance of html5 (or canvas, whatever that was):
- the guy tried to resize with the resize gesture. It didn't work.
- the guy tried to click and draw (as you'd do in the desktop). It didn't work.
- performance was awful (while this might be related to how well implemented it is, this is more likely a hardware issue).

The first two seem issues that are independent of a good or bad implementation:
- he tried to do something that is specific for a touch related device (resizing with multitouch) in something that was designed for the desktop. A good implementation would probably recognize this and act, however, as this was designed for the desktop, maybe the developer didn't want the application to be resizable.
- he tried to do something that is mostly desktop specific (click and drag to draw) in a touch device. While this might work, the interface would need to be either adapted, or designed to work for both worlds.

Both of those issues seem independent from implementation. What I take from that video is that if I want the user to have a nice experience on an iPad, I need to design for an ipad (or at least specifically for multitouch devices)....most of the web is not designed this way, most of the web is thought for a pc with a big screen and a mouse. So this is a problem that includes flash, javascript and event plain simple html (use frames and your app might not be too friendly either in desktop or ipad).

Now, let's say the ipad's html5 is nicely implemented: then the video clearly shows it's not the magical solution Steve Jobs is saying it is.
And if we say the ipad's html5 is badly implemented, then Steve Jobs shouldn't say that people should stop developing in flash and move on to html5. While html5 might be the future, it clearly isn't the present.

[Frets]

What I take from that video is that if I want the user to have a nice experience on an iPad, I need to design for an ipad (or at least specifically for multitouch devices)....most of the web is not designed this way, most of the web is thought for a pc with a big screen and a mouse. So this is a problem that includes flash, javascript and event plain simple html (use frames and your app might not be too friendly either in desktop or ipad).

So what you are saying is that the whole world needs to adapt to an ipad which has limited functionality over the more effective functionality of current desktops. Windows phones and netbooks? Shouldn't the "new thing" be able to handle what the rest of the world can already. Why should everyone else downgrade user experience so Ipad has an equal footing?

No! The world does not revolve around iSteve

[cancerinform]

So what you are saying is that the whole world needs to adapt to an ipad which has limited functionality over the more effective functionality of current desktops. Windows phones and netbooks? Shouldn't the "new thing" be able to handle what the rest of the world can already. Why should everyone else downgrade user experience so Ipad has an equal footing?

No! The world does not revolve around iSteve

Agreed! It is the iPad technology, which has to adapt to the programs, which create the contents. Otherwise we are reinventing the wheel and duplicating everything for the iPad, for the iPhone and who knows what else they come up with in the future.

[argonauta]

So what you are saying is that the whole world needs to adapt to an ipad which has limited functionality over the more effective functionality of current desktops. Windows phones and netbooks?

No, I'm note saying that, but Steve Jobs says that I don't think the world has to redesign the internet for the iPad. What I do think is that IF you want a site to work on an ipad, you'd probably need to redesign it for it (similar to how there are iphone specific websites, now you'd need to redesign the site for the ipad) because it is a different kind of ui. The same way a site can be optimized for small screen devices, it can be optimized for touch screen devices. (note: "if you want" is now bold to see if that helps the reading, as I'm basically stating the same thing I did in my earlier post. Meaning: I'm not saying people MUST, I'm saying people can optimize for one specific device if they want to).

What I think Steve Jobs said is that by removing flash from the equation and using HTML 5, a user can have a complete experience both in ipad and desktop, which I think is completely wrong. They are different devices, so they are different experiences, and if you want to maximize the user experience in both, you'd need to design for both (or the simplest solution would be to ignore the ipad)

[mehmet22]

I still do not understand how steve jobs can say anything and the fanboys accept it as the truth.

argonauta you definitely hit the nail in the head with your detailed explanation of iSteve lies.

[Frets]

Quite a few of the apple enthusiasts are walking away from apple. There is nothing significant about an ipad. It's less for less in a bigger box

Earstwhile BB, Palm, Android, Nokia and all Windows phone7 will soon be getting flash10. Something that Adobe tried to provde for Iphones but adobe rejected.