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Thread: Coalition launches Libya attacks

  1. #1
    Flashkit historian Frets's Avatar
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    Coalition launches Libya attacks

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418

    I guess we'll only learn after it's too late.

  2. #2
    pablo cruisin' hanratty21's Avatar
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    Learn what? That standing by and watching him slaughter his own civilians for sport is ok?
    "Why does it hurt when I pee?" -- F. Zappa |

  3. #3
    Flashkit historian Frets's Avatar
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    Firing missiles only increases the likelyhood of civilians getting caught in the crossfire.

  4. #4
    pablo cruisin' hanratty21's Avatar
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    Well, I guess the lesser of two evils will have to prevail. This lunatic using his military forces to attack his own people on his own soil is simply an unfair fight.
    "Why does it hurt when I pee?" -- F. Zappa |

  5. #5
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Wait... would you rather we just let him kill his own folks?

    What lesson are we supposed to be learning here.

    [ Hello ] | [ gerbick ] | [ Ω ]

  6. #6
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    "Libya doesn't have nuclear weapons and isn't a threat to the US." "Fighting Libyans will potentially create more terrorists." "We can't afford another war." "Congress is supposed to approve military action against a country." "China and Russia are against it." "We still haven't caught Osama."

    Those lessons?

    Side note: "Odyssey Dawn"? Do we really want to characterize this operation as an "odyssey"?
    Last edited by FlashLackey; 03-21-2011 at 03:08 AM.
    "We don't estimate speeches." - CBO Director Doug Elmendorf

  7. #7
    Flashkit historian Frets's Avatar
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    ^agrees

  8. #8
    N' then I might just
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    david petley's Avatar
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    a good wiki page for background (for those who just woke up) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Libyan_uprising
    No longer a Flashkit mod, not even by stealth

    Insanity is just a point of view. After all, the world looks pretty normal through your own underpants.

  9. #9
    Flashkit historian Frets's Avatar
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    I'm not saying that the Libyan people don't deserve better. I am saying that doing the wrong thing for the right reason is still wrong. When we throw out the laws that bind our nation we cease to be a democracy and become something far less. This is the exact same thing that Clinton did in the late 90's which ultimately lead to the 10 year war we haven't been able to get ourselves out of.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise_...n_(August_1998)

  10. #10
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frets View Post
    ^agrees
    I just wanted to understand what the lessons were. Personally, I don't think those are reasons that should have prevented the action Obama has taken.

    But, I give you credit for sticking to your arguments.
    "We don't estimate speeches." - CBO Director Doug Elmendorf

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
    Wait... would you rather we just let him kill his own folks?

    What lesson are we supposed to be learning here.

    Seems to work for the good people of Bahrain, but then there's a big US Naval base there so that's ok.

  12. #12
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    Why am I steven.wilmers? what happenned to swampy I miss that guy

  13. #13
    Mod cancerinform's Avatar
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    My opinion is that now they should stop now. Gaddafi got the message and the rebels have some space to breathe again. Otherwise (not often ) I agree this time with Flashlackey. Also what about the other countries, where rebels are killed by the government, more wars?!
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  14. #14
    N' then I might just
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    I always just wonder in such situations why it is OK in Western eyes (and minds) for some countries to kill their own citizens, but not other countries.

    Why Libya, but not Yemen or Bahrain? Why Iraq, but not China?

    It seems that all of the chestnuts they roll out to justify such interventions can be equally applied to all countries where leaders set their own troops on their own populace ...but they are not. Why?
    No longer a Flashkit mod, not even by stealth

    Insanity is just a point of view. After all, the world looks pretty normal through your own underpants.

  15. #15
    I'm the good one! XU1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david petley View Post
    I always just wonder in such situations why it is OK in Western eyes (and minds) for some countries to kill their own citizens, but not other countries.

    Why Libya, but not Yemen or Bahrain? Why Iraq, but not China?

    It seems that all of the chestnuts they roll out to justify such interventions can be equally applied to all countries where leaders set their own troops on their own populace ...but they are not. Why?
    Yes. but they are not next door to Europe and quite frankly Gaddaffi needs to be medicated.

    Tony

  16. #16
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    It basically comes down to two very scary words for us. "World Police" We do not want to take on that role. We couldn't afford it, couldn't supply enough troops, couldn't make a difference if we could and guarantee backlash to our citizens both home and abroad. We'd rather let the U.N. screw it up.
    We also have to play careful foreign policy. When stuff like Libya hits the headlines, there's immense pressure on us to act and lots of diplomatic visits required if we dont. The majority of us wish our forces were used for nothing but humanitarian causes but sometimes the best counter-terrorism is political offense.

  17. #17
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cancerinform View Post
    My opinion is that now they should stop now. Gaddafi got the message and the rebels have some space to breathe again. Otherwise (not often ) I agree this time with Flashlackey. Also what about the other countries, where rebels are killed by the government, more wars?!
    Quote Originally Posted by david petley View Post
    I always just wonder in such situations why it is OK in Western eyes (and minds) for some countries to kill their own citizens, but not other countries.

    Why Libya, but not Yemen or Bahrain? Why Iraq, but not China?

    It seems that all of the chestnuts they roll out to justify such interventions can be equally applied to all countries where leaders set their own troops on their own populace ...but they are not. Why?
    Whether a military action is justified is a separate issue from whether or not it is the best course of action at a given time.

    I'm not arguing one way or another on whether right decisions have been made. Just making the point that it can be justified to confront a tyrannical act but still not prudent to do so.

    In China for example, the result of military confrontation would be massive. It wouldn't make sense to risk that for the sake of stopping a smaller transgression. Especially when they have been becoming more liberalized over the last several years already.
    "We don't estimate speeches." - CBO Director Doug Elmendorf

  18. #18
    N' then I might just
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    david petley's Avatar
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    uhuh...here we go again, arming radical moslems to overthrow a tyrant. Just what the world needs ....another Afghanistan.
    No longer a Flashkit mod, not even by stealth

    Insanity is just a point of view. After all, the world looks pretty normal through your own underpants.

  19. #19
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Are you saying that it's not worth helping the unarmed people shot by Gadaffi's military because they might be "radical moslems"?
    "We don't estimate speeches." - CBO Director Doug Elmendorf

  20. #20
    N' then I might just
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    i guess i am saying that intervention for the very best reasons often has unexpected and potentially dangerous outcomes.

    News reports here this morning suggest 'flickers of al Qaeda' amongst the rebels.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ief-fears.html
    No longer a Flashkit mod, not even by stealth

    Insanity is just a point of view. After all, the world looks pretty normal through your own underpants.

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