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Thread: Ouch! Flash is on its way out.

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  1. #1
    HUH? pea3698's Avatar
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    Ouch! Flash is on its way out.

    And just when I started getting back into it.

    http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/...-mobile-flash/
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  2. #2
    Flashkit historian Frets's Avatar
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    Best to get the information from the horses mouth and not somewhere else
    Our future work with Flash on mobile devices will be focused on enabling Flash developers to package native apps with Adobe AIR for all the major app stores. We will no longer continue to develop Flash Player in the browser to work with new mobile device configurations (chipset, browser, OS version, etc.) following the upcoming release of Flash Player 11.1 for Android and BlackBerry PlayBook. We will of course continue to provide critical bug fixes and security updates for existing device configurations. We will also allow our source code licensees to continue working on and release their own implementations.
    http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations...ash-focus.html
    Emphasis following the upcoming release of Flash Player 11.1 for Android and BlackBerry PlayBook

    In other words they are still developing player 11 for bb and android.
    And still will be using as in air.


    So in other words they are still creating

  3. #3
    HUH? pea3698's Avatar
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    Phew

    At least my post drummed up a touch of life in the land of yellow. lol
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  4. #4
    Flashkit historian Frets's Avatar
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    Trust me it stirred up quite a bit of controversy at other forums I inhabit.

  5. #5
    Remotely Driven Googooboyy's Avatar
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    Flash is not that bad, and it's certainly ain't dying. It's just refocusing itself.

  6. #6
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    Time to move on...

    Goodbye Flash.... it was good while it lasted
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  7. #7
    anyone else hear that? flashpipe1's Avatar
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    Our company uses flash for MANY of our clients across a broad range of applications and there's NOTHING that can currently cover the same range of development and delivery options.

    So, flash isn't going anywhere. Just because we'll no longer be able to create iPad/iPhone apps in flash is no hit to us. We've only done one of those and it had enough performance issues that we decided to dig into XCODE for the next one.

    Flash is here to stay, at least for now. HTML5 is showing promise, but it's just not ready to handle the complexity and interactivity that you can get from flash.
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  8. #8
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    The misinformation surrounding this is toxic. I blame Adobe.
    The mobile flash player is the only thing ceasing to be supported. period. The only thing that sucks about that is the wind it added to the sails of already biased idiots.
    Flash for desktops - still supported
    Air for desktops - still supported
    Air for Android - still supported
    Air for IOS - still supported!

    Adobe's only profit from flash was the IDE. Almost zero flash player content was being targeted to mobile which makes their mobile player a zero ROI. Hopefully the time, effort and money they plan on throwing at HTML5 tooling will result in some killer apps. God knows the industry needs it.

    Coincidentally I have a cool HTML5 project starting development and after spiking a few CSS3/3-D tests I can confidently say that, "I F*CKING HATE IT! I HATE IT!" Javascript is "exprethifff" but even its best evangelist, Douglas Crockford will tell you it sucks! CSS3 is more of what CSS has ALWAYS been... Stacking greased marbles while wearing boxing gloves! The human mind was not meant to think sideways. Sorry for the rant, I just really hate my industry today.

  9. #9
    poet and narcisist argonauta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jAQUAN View Post
    The mobile flash player is the only thing ceasing to be supported. period. The only thing that sucks about that is the wind it added to the sails of already biased idiots.
    Flash for desktops - still supported
    Air for desktops - still supported
    Air for Android - still supported
    Air for IOS - still supported!
    Most people will browse the internet in mobile devices. While flash will still work in desktop browsers, I think it'll become less and less relevant in websites in the next couple of years. So, in practical terms, not having a mobile flash player will affect its existence in desktop web browsers.

    However, Adobe's strategy has been to market flash/flex as a platform to develop applications. And I think it will continue being a strong tool in that field. Besides, considering Flash is a great tool for game development, and animation (I'm guessing 90% of tv animation is done with flash), Flash won't go away.
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  10. #10
    Mod cancerinform's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by argonauta View Post
    Most people will browse the internet in mobile devices. While flash will still work in desktop browsers, I think it'll become less and less relevant in websites in the next couple of years. So, in practical terms, not having a mobile flash player will affect its existence in desktop web browsers.

    However, Adobe's strategy has been to market flash/flex as a platform to develop applications. And I think it will continue being a strong tool in that field. Besides, considering Flash is a great tool for game development, and animation (I'm guessing 90% of tv animation is done with flash), Flash won't go away.
    I want to see HTML5 development using similar frameworks like SWIZ or MATE and design patterns as it is possible in Flash builder to build powerful and stable applications. Flash builder and AIR will be the focus especially because of the crossplatform advantage.
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  11. #11
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    How quickly Flash ends up dead depends a lot I think on the attitude of the world's marketing people - the ones who commission a lot of Flash work. Soon
    they will be faced with the following choices:-

    1) Continue to use Flash but accept that a smaller percentage of
    people will be able to see it.

    2) Switch to HTML5, but accept that not everyone can see that either,
    and that what cool Flash stuff your marketing budget dreamed of is either going to cost more in html5 (due to differiing broswer compatibilities), be unimplementable in html5, or both.

    3) Give up and use neither, go back to only using text, jpegs and video.

    Which of these becomes the standard for a few years will depend on the
    marketing person in question, but I guess over time there will be a general
    flow towards one of them, until such time that HTMl5/Javacript catches
    up with where Flash is now, or even was 5 years ago

    As developers, we can only but try and push people in the direction of #1
    for now.

    >Adobe's strategy has been to market flash/flex as a platform to develop applications.

    Which is fine for one thing? But would yo, or anyone else, download and install (and use phone storage) for an App that was purely designed to persuade you to buy something?
    Last edited by galaxy_michael; 12-12-2011 at 10:28 AM. Reason: adding further thoughts
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  12. #12
    Flashkit historian Frets's Avatar
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    Do you have any statistical data to back up your statements?

    Because the stats I'm reading tell a different story
    http://now.periscopic.com/2011/05/ou...-your-project/

    Flash doesn't have to go anywhere for the next 20 years and it will still be more advanced then html5.

    When one combines flash with other technologies it becomes something entirely different.

    Everybody talks iOS but few only 20% of the smart phone market is made up of iOS. Android, RIM, and MS make up 80% of that market. They all support SWF/Flash and that isn't going away.


    99% of the browser market currently support Flash. 40% support html5
    1% of the browser market is iOS.

    So if you are making a decision on what to design with shouldn't you make that on availablity of the current market and not on what you imagine it may or may not be in 20 years

  13. #13
    Flashkit historian Frets's Avatar
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    In somewhat related news adobe is going through restructuring.

    http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/08/a...digital-media/

  14. #14
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    Angry HTML5 is NOT a replacement for FLASH!!!

    I know almost everyone on here is going to agree with me – but even if just one IDIOT HTML5 supporter reads this – it’s worth it.

    First of all – HTML5 is fine for the reasons it was intended – video players without plugins, etc.

    BUT… Will people STOP saying HTML5 is a “Flash Killer” or even a replacement, or even in the same league as Flash.

    If it wasn’t for Apple’s marketing – this whole “war” wouldn’t have even started – html5 would have just been the update it was intended to be.

    Apple would not allow Flash on their iphones for ONE reason – it wasn’t because it’s slow, or uses a lot of battery power, or any reason to improve usability –

    Apple would not allow flash on their devices because they wanted to SELL APPS – TO MAKE MONEY.

    Think of all the 10000’s of flash games, apps, etc already avilable for FREE on newgrounds,miniclip, etc – why would anyone pay $3 for a game – when they could play in for free?

    They HAD to come up with a reason why they shouldn’t include flash.

    So why did they support HTML5? Because it’s a terrible substitute with no possibility of competing with Flash.

    With no real development suite – making anything in html5 is painstaking. I could recreate almost any of the html5 “killer” demo’s that are available on the web – but know what? My flash versions would be better. It would be vector, so look perfectly sharp, it could be downloaded as a single file and played offline. It could have drop-shadows, glows, and, and most importantly – I could make it fast – not because of ActionScript itself – but because of the Flash dev software. Why take weeks drawing circles in code, when you can use movieclips to make great animations.

    Even if there was a software package that made it simple to make html5 games – a sort of “Flash for html5” – (Adobe edge?) HTML5 is still limited. Sending a single file swf, contain all the sound, code, graphics, etc to newground is simple – sending a bunch of html,javascript,pngs will just be a pain.

    Need more reasons? Over 90% of users have Flash player installed – so the whole argument that you need to download a plugin for it to work is ridiculous. People have the plugin-and if they don’t – it’s a small simple download – that is linked to by the content.

    It’s more effort to download the latest chome or firefox browser that supports html5. Most users are still IE – which doesn’t have full 5 support yet.
    I’ve read people saying – flash slows down my browser – and even made my browser crash. I guarantee – there are more javascript errors out there. I’ve had more browser crashes because of poor JavaScript code then flash.

    If flash does cause your browser to crash – it’s because Flash is so simple to use – beginners make games/apps/ads – not fully knowing what they are doing, and their code gets stuck in a loop. This isn’t a fault of flash – it’s a fault caused by the coder. Guess what? As more people take up HTML5 – you will get the same poor coding, and just as many crashes.
    And if flash crashes your safari browser on your mac – it won’t crash if you use firefox on your mac. The safari browser is to blame there. (If It crashes in ff on the mac – this isn’t the post to discuss mac vs pc)

    It’s sad so many people are behind HTML5 as a replacement for flash –without fully knowing why they are supporting it. They’ve been told by Apple flash is bad – and they’ve just accepted it.

    The developers of html5 themselves have said people are trying to use it in a way it was not intended.

    Sorry for the long post.

  15. #15
    Mod cancerinform's Avatar
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    Flash can be unplugged, html5 not, which means adds cannot be unplugged. HTML5 can therefore replace Flash.
    Last edited by cancerinform; 11-11-2011 at 11:46 AM.
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  16. #16
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    All I need to in order to be happy again is a new language and a killer IDE built around it that compiles to html/css/js. Writing any of those languages is akin to writing machine code.

  17. #17
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    I asked my client if they had an idea for this animated transition in this html5 project. They sent me the animation for the marvel logo used in their movies. F*cking shoot me. Shoot me now!

  18. #18
    Pillow Daddy m_andrews808's Avatar
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    there are many, many reasons why HTML5 is not (yet) a replacement for Flash.

    The immediate problem is the raft of bandwagon jumping nay sayers and apple fanboys shouting it down. It's bound to have a negative effect on prospective jobs for Flashers as employers get sucked in to the hype and are sold on an immature platform


  19. #19
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m_andrews808 View Post
    there are many, many reasons why HTML5 is not (yet) a replacement for Flash.

    The immediate problem is the raft of bandwagon jumping nay sayers and apple fanboys shouting it down. It's bound to have a negative effect on prospective jobs for Flashers as employers get sucked in to the hype and are sold on an immature platform
    I get what you're saying. However, I think this is partially off.

    I would wager that most experienced Flash devs also know HTML-based technologies (and could get jobs doing so). On the other hand, I know that there are many HTML devs that don't know the first thing about Flash.

    While I think it's true that HTML-centric devs oppose Flash in large part because they don't know how to use it, I think that most Flash devs oppose working with HTML because they have programmed in both.
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  20. #20
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    We can always send clients links like this to help them make up their mind.
    http://now.periscopic.com/2011/05/ou...-your-project/

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