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Thread: Getting Tough Out There

  1. #1
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    Getting Tough Out There

    Starting to hear quite a lot of concerns about work becoming harder to find, price pressure etc, coupled with louder and louder calls for HTML5 to replace Flash.

    What's the consensus here?

    Is there still plenty of work, are there still bright spots?

    Is any downturn purely from the economic climate or are clients reluctant to use Flash these days simply because they've heard it won't work on iPhone?

    Paul

  2. #2
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    It's pretty rough for me too and I actually know html5. My main problems are that I'm stuck in Germany and am only available for telecommute. That hurts because for a company to want a telecommuter bad enough, they'd better bring some serious talent to the table which usually consists of front-end, backend, ruby and python experience. I worked my ass off and simply havent had any ruby/python projects come up and now I'm penalized for it.

    This hints a larger problem though, the html5 nonsense (see most of my recent posts here) has pretty much screwed everybody from paying client to developer. Clients are being led around blindly by the circle jerk bloggers, js library writers and basically every other dev out there who likes being employed. They are forced to order up "mobile" compatible sites because some erroneous statistic says most of the web is consumed on mobile now while it fails to factor in exactly what content is being consumed. I'm pretty sure mobile users are not excited to see a media rich experience bog down their phone. If you do see some jquery mobile or Foundation based site on your phone you can be damn sure its killing your battery just as fast as the flash player would... if it even loads.

    So now clients are forced to purchase the equivalent of two to three versions of every project (see http://mediaqueri.es/) the developer is shamed into charging close to the same, except for the big agencies of course. But somewhere in the middle are companies trying to stay afloat by hiring multi-talented developers who've been writing code since they were f*cking eight and paying them a single persons salary. And no one... no one is picking their head up and saying, "hey, this is bullsh*t!"

    F*ck you Steve Jobs.

  3. #3
    Dignitary rynoe's Avatar
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    I moved about 9 months ago, soon as I updated my online resume I got calls left and right. Alot of it was for PHP, but not all of it. I got an interview for a flash programmer.

    At the interview I took a test that lasted about an hour scored a 90% and had a face to face interview that lasted less than 10 minutes.

    I figured I was done.

    After I got hired I found out I was the only one they interviewed that did better than 50% on the test.

  4. #4
    Prid - Outing Nig 13's Avatar
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    After I got hired I found out I was the only one they interviewed that did better than 50% on the test.
    Nothing less expected from you
    I am back, guys ... and finally 18 :P

    BRING BACK THE OLD DESIGN!! OR AT LEAST FIX THE AS TAGS

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rynoe View Post
    I moved about 9 months ago, soon as I updated my online resume I got calls left and right. Alot of it was for PHP, but not all of it. I got an interview for a flash programmer.

    At the interview I took a test that lasted about an hour scored a 90% and had a face to face interview that lasted less than 10 minutes.

    I figured I was done.

    After I got hired I found out I was the only one they interviewed that did better than 50% on the test.
    So perhaps this suggests that basic flash development is now easy enough for more mainstream users and has probably moved in house or to marketing agencies. But for proper scripting and development, work is still available.

    Not a big sample of responses yet but sounds like a plausible maturing of the marketplace?

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    Yes misconceptions about Flash and HTML5 are hurting the industry.

    Lamens just don't understand the technologies enough to appreciate the benefits of each.

    HTML5 is a pain to work on compared to flash, and can not produce the same types of rich interactive experiences.

    HTML5 = dynamic static content.
    Flash = interactive media content.

    The problem we are facing is that consumers are willing to accept static, content first, websites. And don't really care about engaging interactive media.

    The next problem facing us is that business's found out people will pay for what was once free. They would much rather produce a static site, but a media rich interactive app.

    Corporations have always wanted to shut down the web, now they have "apps" in their arsenal, and trying to use them to rid the web of free interactive media.

    The whole situation is bad, bad for developers, bad for consumers. But it's moving so fast mis-information is running the show.

    It's like waking up one day and finding your Mustang has been replaced with a bicycle and a bus pass.

  7. #7
    Chaos silverx2's Avatar
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    the Tablet Era is in full swing, its much better for companies to have pages that render quickly and properly without the chance for a memory leak that flash can cause.

    The days of 3 minute FI intros are just about over, and personally i wont miss them when they are gone. At this point when i go to a website i am going to it specifically to find information, if i want to watch a flash video ill go to a website specifically for that.

    i would say 95% if a website has some sort of intro, or uses excessive "interaction" personally i get displeased.
    GhooooostGIrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrl
    https://signup.leagueoflegends.com?ref=4b5493e6c7342
    use the link above if you download league of legends.

  8. #8
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    Flash intros have been gone for years. hbogo.com is about the only all flash site left and that was a bad choice. Flash as an application code base is still a brilliant option however and that's what we're talking about here. Over a hundred thousand apps on the apple store are as3 based. Javascript has every bit of a chance for memory leaks as flash, heck even more so due to the lack of scope. Web development doesnt suck because no one wants flash, its sucks because the languages suck.

  9. #9
    Dignitary rynoe's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    I agree with jaQUAN about the memory leak remark. AS3 has a fairly decent garbage collector and built in fuctions to manage memory. Most if not all of the flash produced files that are memory hogs out there have to do with poor programming and design practices rather than the technology itself.

    I would recommend focusing on AIR development if your an actionscript fan. I've had alot of fun with it and my guess its got bright future.

    If your a javascript fan you should be happy as a clam right now because as far as I can tell it is all the real brains around html5 anyway.

    All this hubbub about flash vs. HTML5 is political retoric. Use the right technology at the right time, it's simple really.

    It's tough out there, I agree. But its tough for everyone in every industry, not just flash developers. My guess is that because html and javascript is cheaper than developing in flash, everyone is trying to leverage that technology.

    By the way, now that the flash player is dead on mobile, whats to stop the browser being the next on the chopping block with everyone focusing on apps....

  10. #10
    Flashkit historian Frets's Avatar
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    Well I would debate the cheaper aspect.

    Many things can be done faster in flash then in html5. And those waving the html5 flag qualified skilled in the field.

    A better question becomes how much does the client really know about html5 or what he's getting. Many clients talk out of their arse and sales reps are so far up there they'll believe a client more then a developer. If you allow people to expect less and be happy with it then they will expect less of you and you'll have to be happy with getting less.

    I used to be in the restaraunt biz. People don't come to look at the menu and they don't try to negotiate the price. They come to eat and if they think it's something is too much they order something they can afford. But usually they like to play the big shot. Order big eat big and think if something costs more then the place across the street it's because the difference is worth it. Same goes with clients if you promote your product/service as worth it for the price they'll budge so long as it feeds their ego.

  11. #11
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    Informed clients request an html5 site because they want to include iOS in their target. No problem there. But in all of W3C's push to improve on capabilities, they completely failed to consider the developers. Their complete failure to enforce a standard convention or implementation shot the price of development up due to trying to localize for all vendors. Profit margins shrunk and agencies are requiring the same size staff to do more. If you aren't skilled in everything from node.js to django to wordpress theming to mobile apps consider yourself to be lucky to be employed.

  12. #12
    Flashkit historian Frets's Avatar
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    And that reiterates my point (though I didn't make it well)

    The greatest advocates of html5 are the least aware of the demands do to the conflicting implementation on browsers.

    Yes it would be great if all you had to do is code once and write everywhere but one can't and few seem to recognize this.

    Maybe someone ought to build an html4 translator on one end you do all the coding and on the other end it spits out browser compliant code.

  13. #13
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    Well my dream scenario is a single highly regulated core (preferably webkit) which each browser manufacturer would wrap. The DOM would render exactly the same everywhere but they'd each be free to add all their own bells and whistles. Chrome could still implement V8 and all of their google integration awesomeness, firefox could still support plugins and IE could still manage to **** things up all they want. Those features are really the only place browsers compete anyway.

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    Not all rich contents have to interactive. A large portion of the medium consumption experience is inevitably going to be passive. A good animation can communicate ideas far better than a still image. A big problem in the Flash community that I see is how people look down upon timeline animations. That's really Flash's forte. Timeline animations, when properly optimized, blow away anything you can do in HTML5.

  15. #15
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    If one message from Steve Jobs can kill flash, this is the one guy who can kill HTML5.
    http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/11/mar...m_medium=email
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-575...m_medium=email

    Love it.

  16. #16
    Mod cancerinform's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rynoe View Post
    I would recommend focusing on AIR development if your an actionscript fan. I've had alot of fun with it and my guess its got bright future.
    AIR is what Adobe seems to promote. If you look at Flash CS6, there is a new option for publishing AIR on Android to either get AIR from the Google market or embed AIR runtime with the application. That would eliminate any download from another source. The focus of further development will be on Gaming and Video. Thus Flash is not dead and games can still be developed in Flash.

    Regarding Flash Adobe seems to develop a new AS, which fulfills the demand for high performance. It is based on AS3.
    - The right of the People to create Flash movies shall not be infringed. -
    | www.Flashscript.biz | Flashscript Biz Classes/Components |

  17. #17
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
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    Don't forget you can publish to iOS too.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaquan View Post
    if one message from steve jobs can kill flash, this is the one guy who can kill html5.
    http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/11/mar...m_medium=email
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-575...m_medium=email

    love it.
    nice!

  19. #19
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    Not all rich contents have to interactive. A large portion of the medium consumption experience is inevitably going to be passive. A good animation can communicate ideas far better than a still image. A big problem in the Flash community that I see is how people look down upon timeline animations. That's really Flash's forte. Timeline animations, when properly optimized, blow away anything you can do in HTML5.

  20. #20
    Senior Member realMakc's Avatar
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    it does getting tough - but what do you expect? I come to flashkit and find only 5 posts made on that day. It used to be several pages.

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