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Thread: HTML5 vs Flash

  1. #1
    Senior Member FLASHPULSE's Avatar
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    HTML5 vs Flash

    While I was here on the forum, I thought I would like to talk about something I have noticed.

    When HTML5 first came about or at least showed that there would be a new transition to use it instead of Flash, I was hesitant. Then it seemed to make sense later on. Such as being plugin-less and it's performance was getting close to what I was use to seeing in Flash. I find that to be no longer the case and here's why...

    While there is no plugin to update anymore, you still have to update your browser if there's any new features and/or bug fixes. That being said, not all browsers support all the same features nor do they share the same performance. Some browsers either load the HTML5 faster or playback the content better than other browsers. I'm finding more delays in HTML5 and I'm not sure if it's the format (many files) or the way it was created by the user.

    Flash on the other hand is a contained format that could be compressed into a single file. It also loaded fairly quick usually via a progress bar. The performance was the same on any single computer and on any browser that computer used due to its plugin based architecture. Therefor, all file formats such as images and audio files were equally compatible due to its plugin design and not based on the developments of multiple browser companies.

    To sum this all up. I think we may have gone backwards technology-wise. There are other things I could list if I were to think about it but I'm sure we are all aware. While there are going to be pros and cons for each format, I still find that Flash is superior in 2017. What are your thoughts on this?
    Last edited by FLASHPULSE; 09-18-2017 at 04:48 PM.

  2. #2
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    I agree.

    Swf files are highly compressed even at the bit level unlike Html5 files which are ASCII. Html5 may not require an official plugin but it does require numerous javascript files from libraries like CreateJS to make it interesting. Even those libraries provide only rudimentary functionality and require even more javascript files to add functionality approaching the level of the very early versions of Flash.

    If Html5 provided the functionality of Flash, it also would be guilty of hogging cpu resources.

    Animation has taken a back seat to SEO objectives. Very creative web sites are rare these days.

    The attack on Flash may have really been an attack on Adobe.

  3. #3
    Senior Member FLASHPULSE's Avatar
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    Yes, creative websites have dropped big time since the conversion to HTML5. While Flash did use a bit more cpu, which I think could be controlled depending on what you were designing... I find HTML5 websites constantly giving me the spinning beach ball on OS X on some websites or the browser's refresh icon nonstop spinning even though nothing else is loading. Whether it's bad coding (unable to load a file properly) or Google ads trying to load, I find that a bit worse than Flash's cpu usage.

    I know Apple (Steve Jobs) attacked Flash for supposed security risk and memory issues on OS X but... Since I've been using OS X, I've never had any issues with Flash. I think earlier versions of OS X had memory issues and Apple put the blame elsewhere.

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    CPU usage was regulated by a designer finding "creative" ways to present content ... we all know that. It could be pretty much as resource intensive or not depending on how hard we were willing to work before publishing.

    I come from a different "brand" of flash developer (*******), but definitely find HTML5 to be a step backwards.

    Then again, what good thing did previous designers develop or do that the current crop of "web gurus" haven't tried to destroy in the name of metrics? Nothing.

    It's not about the money and time I spent learning and producing flash items for web pages ... it's about the second rate quality of today's sites.

    As nice as KoolShow works, it can't touch a quick and dirty flash version of the exact same material and (in my case) I'm not sure my flash doesn't use less CPU to start out.

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    LOL! I see you guys have the same word filter as a few other "flash" development sites. They must have been a royal pain for a while. I was actually a mod on their forums at one time, they absolutely refused to remove spammers.

    Ok, back on subject ... most folks don't have a problem with flash, and my android tablet handles flash well. It is invariably an I-phone or I-pad user who will call up one of my customers after being unable to bypass my personal captcha (moving letters on an image) whining about it. I love how Susie handled it: She gave the angry doctor my phone number.

    After listening to his complaints and anger about my using flash to keep bots out of my customers' inboxes, I asked him how he was trying to access the form for sending messages. "Well my I phone, of course! I'm not trying to use some cheap phone! You're so behind the times!!!"

    Fighting back a laugh, I responded: "Oh, is it an I-phone 5 or I-phone 4?" after he answered, I very calmly and apologetically explained to him, "Ok, well have you ever wondered why Apple decided to call it an I-phone?" He asked why that was important. "Well, the reason they called it an I-phone was because marketing decided it sounded so much sexier than the alternative. No one would buy something called "The Incompatible Phone" ... "

    He stuttered, I hung up.

  6. #6
    Senior Member FLASHPULSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dijenga View Post
    "The Incompatible Phone"
    That's hilarious! Thanks for that.

  7. #7
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    I agree that with Flash it was easier to be creative. A lot of sites however only used it for playing audio or video content.
    I think the popularity of Flash had a lot to do with being excited about new technology. In the early days of the internet, you only had text. Then came animated gifs and a lot of sites were filled with all kind of blinking and animated images. After that Flash was the new thing which had a lot more possibilities. Once it isn't new anymore, you start thinking of how practical it is and in a lot of cases a content driven cms is just a lot more practical.
    You see the same thing with the GUI of operating systems. First it became visually more complex and now we all know a computer is capable of that, it's back to simplicity and a flat look.
    Anyway, it's good KM did start to support html5 since Adobe already announced to stop supporting Flash Player.

  8. #8
    Senior Member realMakc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dijenga View Post
    He stuttered, I hung up.
    This is perfect example ) People who are not reasonable about flash, are actually not reasonable about anything. It is time to add "I am using flash for my work" to my red flags list.
    who is this? a word of friendly advice: FFS stop using AS2

  9. #9
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    That's ok . . . added certain folks to my red flag list long ago.

    Be well.

  10. #10
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    Great discussion! Here is my two cents. At a certain point, Steve Jobs did was no longer interested in finding ways to better adapt Flash to smart phones. Preserving Apple's special relationship with Abobe and its software for creative professionals, had to be sacrificed to gain a bigger prize. Leading the charge to vilified Flash and forced it off the web, gave he a ton of publicity as the man who gave voice to the growing smart phone multitudes. Plus, it cleared the way for Apple and many other companies make much more money. Alan Kay gives some related historical perspectives on Steve Jobs' change in priorities:
    https://www.fastcompany.com/40435064...technology-now

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    Flashpulse, Dijenga, w.brants, and realMakc, do you have ideas on how KM or KS could make it less painful for you to animate in HTML5?

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    I only use KoolShow to make animated banners ... IMO, it's a step backwards from Flash, but it does work.

    To be honest though, I have not used the two latest versions because it has been a while since I needed to create a new animated banner (but that changes this evening as I have some work to do for the radio station).

    The timeline, which resembles what I'm used to in S0Th1nk's Flash Editor, seemed to make it easier to get what I'm trying to do done.

    No experience with KoolMoves ... but isn't that a flash editor?

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    KM has KS as one of its modes (task skill levels). Sometimes, I make an animation with KM in flash and save it, then switch modes so that it is translated into HTML5, and save it under a different name. This trick allows me to have access to more powerful animation tools.

  14. #14
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    Flash lost out in part because it makes it harder to track every single move people make online. HTML5 smoothes the way for Big Data companies like FaceBook, Google, Amazon, etc. to be the top performers of the stock-market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dijenga View Post
    No experience with KoolMoves ... but isn't that a flash editor?
    KoolShow is a subset of KoolMoves. The GUI of both is almost identical. KoolMoves has Flash export capability and preceded KoolShow by about a dozen years.

    I collect ideas for future improvements through Survey Monkey but the comments are often a sentence or two. I am often frustrated because I want to ask the person questions to clarify what they want.

    I want people to feel free to communicate directly through our email address or on the forum with feature requests or aspects to the software which need improvement. Almost all recent improvements have come from users and that has been the case since the year 2000 when we started.

    As long as criticisms are polite and civil I value them.

  16. #16
    undead creature necromanthus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLASHPULSE View Post
    I still find that Flash is superior in 2017.
    I totally agree.
    Flash provides smoother animation and better sound (just to mention the main advantages).
    But I was always interested in 3D.
    Flash ActionScript:
    http://necromanthus.com/KoolMoves/AS3/Monster.html
    vs
    HTML5 WebGL JavaScript:
    http://necromanthus.com/Test/html5/Lara.html

    Flash lost the 3D "battle" for sure.
    But on the 2D side it still rocks:
    http://necromanthus.com/KoolMoves/AS3/BumpMapping.html

    cheers

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