dcsimg
A Flash Developer Resource Site

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 88

Thread: If you freelance, you must read this...

  1. #41
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    25

    resolved

    Yow. Well I had this experience once in the offline world. I had an obnoxious client who asked for repeats, changes like mad, till one day he suggested that he'd find another artist.

    Well the long and short of it was, he ended up using my design, with minor alterations made by the other artist, and didn't pay me a cent. But I wasn't going back, he caused me too much stress to further trouble myself. Yep, I should'a had it in writing. But I was subcontracted for the work by another company.

    Now I'm a development engineer | programmer at large and flash designer.

    One way I could see us overcomming this is by forming an association. Say the IFDA - International Flash Developers Association. This group should see about protecting our legal interest internationally, and come up with recommendations and standardized contracts that we use with clients.

    To make some minor points:
    - yep, keep the FLAs, follow another thread on that somewhere
    - yep, I like the watermark idea
    - I don't like the defacing the server idea, as it's just plain wrong
    - I like the idea of the SWF hosted on your machine (or the text file)

    Keep up to ideas guys.

    Kirk

  2. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    221
    Well, here's my 2-cents.

    I don't think it would be a great idea to place a "no-pay" list on Flashkit. The list would get waaaay to long, and very rarely would two Flashkit freelancers get the same client, although I guess it IS possible.

    I do, however, think it is an AWESOME idea to place legalities/ideas/general contract templates in a "freelance forum". Something for us professionals to go by.

    And in my own thinking.... don't you think that if the company pays for your work, that they then own it? Granted, it's your work... but they technically bought it in a legal fashion. But I do agree, that if they want the FLA's for their own self-efficient work... that the price be pushed up accordingly.

    Ideas, comments?
    --Neelixx

  3. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    178
    Well, as regards Neelixx post "don't you think that if the company pays for your work, that they then own it?", I don't know if you can always say that the person that pays for the work owns it. I think that there are two very different approaches to this.

    One, you can offer to build a clients site, and produce the files as a product, thus the client owns the files and can do anything (almost) that they want to with them.

    Two, you can offer to provide the site as a service, without giving the client any right to change the files, or take them else-where to be modified, such as another design firm. If the client wants changes, they must come to you. If they go elsewhere, they must start all over.

    I would be interested in knowing which way most people provide their work; that is, as a service, or a "product".

    Finally, I do want to agree with Neelixx about having some "legalities/ideas/general contract" info here at Flashkit, even if it is just a thread with people giving info and/or experiences for their own countries legal system.

  4. #44
    Ugly with a capitol F Ekostudios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Injun-ana
    Posts
    91
    I always take a down payment of 1/4 of the quote/contract

    Then, when I'm done, I upload everything to my servers, (including a .zip of the site)

    I wait for the rest of the payment before giving the client the url to the site.zip

    sound like a good plan?

  5. #45
    i was way ahead of myself, but before i learned flash and was considering to make money off it, this was the number 1 issue.

    a few points yall should consider:

    i think with the 50% downpayment, there could be a potential problem, if the cost is huge, your client would also think of the possibility that you run away with the money - i'm 16, huge chance they would think that way.

    if they don't get the .fla , then they wouldn't be able to change ANYTHING. this may cause them to choose a more legitiment designer.

    One thing that most of you haven't considered is how the clients would react to your demands.

    this is what i'd do

    1. a contract, listed conditions, full cost and due date
    (contract would have to be very professional - i've heard that with a contract you have to have a witness, that true?)
    2. pay as you make, % of total payment based on the work shown
    3. tiny watermark on a specific page, only known by you and only seen under 800 magnification on a specific page.
    4. extra charge for the .fla
    5. id' advoid a lawsuit if avoidable, its something way too costy for me. if unadvoidable, then your tiny watermark would be proof.

    hopefully that might work

    bob2007

    p.s. Under718 - send me the contract please? it'd help me a lot or just post it here under this thread.

    email: bob_2007@yahoo.com

  6. #46
    Ugly with a capitol F Ekostudios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Injun-ana
    Posts
    91
    If it comes to that much cash (over $1g), SUE!

    Law scares 'em pants off!

    (i don't know much about uk/aussie law tho)

  7. #47
    Moderator RazoRmedia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,016
    oh, kids, loadmovie doesn't work on different servers, feature in flash 5 for security, sorry

  8. #48
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Posts
    22
    Sorry RazorMedia loadmovie DOES WORK with Flash5 from different servers, it is the LoadVariables command that Macromedia says doesn't work with Flash 5.

    To prove it go here:
    http://www.indigoworks.co.uk/develop...MovieTest.html

    for demonstration purposes from the loaded movie you can press the button and unload what would be the clients movie if they didn't pay.

    Dbrf


  9. #49
    Moderator RazoRmedia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,016
    okay, I stand corrected. I have tried this and it worked but I was working on a local movie. I did post about this in another forum but I got shot down and they said it doesn't work. I have not had time to try it out but thankyou for correcting me

    Its an ideal solution and for some nasty clients you could redirect the root timeline to get a really nasty url (some horrible site!)

    cheers

  10. #50
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    2

    copy logos

    I have experienced a similar situation that has still not been resolved.
    I rushed a project for toxicsoup.com, and received a lot of praise from the client. I put the site up on MY server along with a custom logo I had designed.

    He Pulled my logo and put it on his site, and linked to my site for the flash intro.

    I ofcourse, asked for payment, which he denied, so I took my site down, and asked him to remove my logo from his site.

    I am now out the money and the TIME spent, with nothing to do I registered http://toxicsoup.net and put up my site (hoping I can do something with it later).

    I was shocked to see http://www.toxicsoup.com and the surprisingly similar logos.

    This guy wont answer my phone call, yet claims to be affiliated with MANY big companies... any ideas?

  11. #51
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    18
    I've been through this as well. I did a flash intro for an expensive site once, never got paid for any of it... at that point I STARTED to think about built-in protections. Evidentally the company failed to pay a bunch of other people as well... their site went down. Since then I've done what looks like a lot of us are doing, building in those protections. Mine was a loaded text variable fro mmy server that basically defaced the remote site with a no-pay message.

    As far as .flas, I've had people ask for them, but since I never include it in the original contract as a deliverable, I tell them up front that the negotiations on the COST of the fla have to be completed before they get the file. I'd rather be bugged for a rare update than give over the source.

  12. #52
    Moderator RazoRmedia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,016
    cathode,
    loadvars doesn't work from a remote server in flash 5, a macromedia security feature (as recently pointed out to me). Loadmovie does work though, use that, its simpler to use too.
    Bruce

  13. #53
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    4
    i've just been involved in putting up a similar site to flashkit for the dv community and included in thier site are pdfs of watertight legal contracts for freelancers where you can just insert your details in the gaps. maybe we could do a similar thing?

  14. #54
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    5

    Employers not paying up?

    I used to have the same problems all the time.

    The embedded getURL link to your own site is a great idea but getting a written agreement from the start is absolutely essential.

    I no longer freelance but work in-house for an ad agency.

    The methods with the big boys is simple:

    50% up front then 50% on delivery.

    NO BUTS.

    If you're work's good enough - they'll agree. If not then they probably never intended to pay you anyway.

    We are our services are not serious about paying-up then just don't go with the premise that 'this piece of work is kick ass - they'll love it' because employers, when using our services are usually in some stage of development of their business/project/IPO and are thus just waiting to take the piss out of any designer/freelancer who has'nt signed them up to an agreement.

    Take no chances - its your livelihood.

    Sxter

  15. #55
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    148
    As long as you have not received payment you own the copyright to the work, and your 'clients' use of it it constitutes a copyright infringement (at least in the US). I'm sure you all have seen VHS movies where the copyright violation's punishments are listed: they are fairly severe.

    I would take legal recourse for copyright violation. Especially for companies that yank your work and then profit off of it without paying you. attempt to garnish their income as payment. make sure to sue for the time it took you legally pursue this and the lawyer's costs.

    do not write in bombs, or bugs or host it permanently on your server. that just opens you up to suit. even if they owe you money, it doesn't legally justifiy screwing them. if it's on your server, and they pay you and you forget to copy it over to their server (or it doesn't work right or seomthing like that), then your server goes down and they look bad not only are you liable for losses, but your standing as a freelancers bottoms out.

  16. #56
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    21

    Lightbulb Contract Contract Contract

    I'll spare my own burn story and add only this link to the discussion. It's CNET. They have all kinds of freelance/webdesign/techie contracts on tap. Hope this helps someone...

    http://www.cnet.com/webbuilding/0-3885-8-4500031-1.html



    SET PATH=Bookshelf;Deskdrawer;Closet;BoxUnderBed;Garba geCan;
    shaid

  17. #57
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    8

    Post They Dont Pay

    Well, I said I'd do it. I did. You may use it if you like. You may not use it if you don't like.

    TheyDontPay.org. Please take this as me trying to do something to help out my peers. I'm not doing this to provide a tool for slander. If you use it, be fair and honest. If used correctly, I believe that this site could provide a very valuable service to the freelance design community.

    Best wishes all-

    -A

    ps- no crap about the code, eh? I'm a designer, not a coder.


  18. #58
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    8

    Smile Re: Contract Contract Contract

    http://www.cnet.com/webbuilding/0-3885-8-4500031-1.html

    What a fantastic resource. Thank you for this post. I have it bookmarked.

    -A

  19. #59
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    178
    That was a great idea about sueing for copyright infringment. In the US though, I thing that you must register your copyright before you can sue for any damages. You don't (to the best of my knowing) have to register to sue, but all you can do is stop them from using your stuff. However, if you register, you can get money for damages as well.

  20. #60
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    148
    On the registering before you sue note, I'd be inclined to think you could draft a suit and send it informing them of the intent to sue and get your money well enough. It's not that expensive to register (few hundred) and if the sum is large enough, it's well worth it.

    good point on the law though.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  




Click Here to Expand Forum to Full Width

HTML5 Development Center