[Disc] Fight Games

[LeechmasterB]

Hey everyone,

I need some information about fight games. Like which ones did you like the most or what are good flash fight games (like streetfighter) at all? So if you know any good fight games for flash could you please post some links? Thanks in advance.

Also I would like to ask you what do fightgames need to be playable, to make people return and be somewhat addictive. What should not be missing in a fightgame (musts also playablitity whise). Well I just want YOUR opinion about anything important concerning flash fight games.


Greets

[Joshman_123]

~Mix in a bit of RPG (eg. strength, speed etc)
~Original and unique characters
~Fully interactive environments (usable weapons, ladders etc.)
~Combo moves

[GuttaGames]

Well you can check out mine i just did today.
http://img335.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ighters5cf.swf

Well to me i love a huge selection of characters with there on styles. and
with tag team actions like Marvel vs. Capcom 2

[Kakihara]

Yep the tag thing is a cool addition to the fighting game genre, very easy to do as well.

I think the most important thing is having interesting and varied characters with cool back stories, also they need to have great moves, a couple of special moves each that are difficult to pull off but do some serious damage, and look cool.

Just dont foget that fighting games are about fighting, sounds obvious but a lot of people forget that and make a game with all the trimmings but no main feast (bad metaphor kakihara ) so the game is boring and flat, concentrate on getting the fighting engine fun to play and then add the rpg elements and interactive bgs etc...

Good luck though, havent seen a good one in a while.

ps. Theres one called dynast street that is pretty awesome.

[LeechmasterB]

Thanks for the input so far.

~Mix in a bit of RPG (eg. strength, speed etc) (v check)
~Original and unique characters (v check)
~Fully interactive environments (usable weapons, ladders etc.) (x planed)
~Combo moves (v check)


@ GuttaGames: your game is kind of stiff because you cant jump and the slow movement. Buts its a good start already and the grafics look nice.


@ Kahikara: Yeah you got some good points there. The dynast street game is awesome but its not a streetfighter style of fight game. The one I intend to make is a 1 vs 1 fight game just like street fighter.

Great input so far guys, just does anyone know more links to good fight games. It hard finding them.

I think combos are the most important thing and smooth movement (in addition to different characters with unique tequniques and styles or somewhat like that).

[nick_das]

Games you might want to look at (if you can get your hands on them ) :

- Super Street Figher 2 (snes)
- Mortal Kombat
- Art of Fighting
- Fatal Fury

The last 2 were Neo geo games and both had interesting characters. I think they were ported to the SNES too, but were a bit poo.

What used to keep me interested in any fighting game was

- Varied, interesting characters
- Uknown characters that were later revealed (somehow)
- Boss characters
- Learning all the special moves. There's always some tough one that takes alot of practice to pull off. (I remember Zangief from street fighter having a particularly tough one)
- Seeing the "end sequence" of a given character when you comeplete the game.
- Bonus games (eg destroying a car in street fighter). At the time it was fun

I'd love to see Mortal Kombat done, with fatalities and blood. In fact i think i'll add that to my evergrowning list of games i might have a crack at

[WilloughbyJackson]

Fight games, my speciality...(and Marmotte's... He's actually got more done in the genre than me...)

ANYHOW.

The three best fight games in Flash (in my opinion) are:
1) Marmotte's fight game engine (It's kicking around, just do a search. Open-source, oldy but a goody)
2) Street Fighter Flash edition (HECK, Capcom's SFIII artist Akiman linked to the darn game! http://flashkof.free.fr/street/site/htm/game.htm )
3) Capoeria Fighter III ( http://www.shockwave.com/sw/content/capfighter3 )

My personal favorite 2D fight games are:
- Street Fighter III Third Strike (very old school game play without chain-combos)
- Guilty Gear XX (The most insane characters and character animation, and pretty insane combo system.)

As for fight games, gamplay, they are a lot more complex than most people think.

For example:
What happens when a person gets hit? How much damage does it do? How much block damage does it do? How much knockback does the move do? How much block knockback does the move do? What hit animation does the move use? (Weak, Middle, Strong?) Does it have different knockback if the person is attacking? Does it hit High, Middle, or Low? Can it combo? Can you chain it with other normal moves or special moves?

I have tons of other thoughts on the subject matter if you're curious. Let me know, I can give you TONS of feedback.

[GuttaGames]

Well speaking of fighting games im about to get started on mine, was their anyone ya would like to be in the game, for it is called world fighter, the person must have some side kick buuddy(like Ryu and his side kick is ken).

[WilloughbyJackson]

Nakoruru and Rimururu from Samurai Showdown Zero...

[R1TAL1N]

The purple teletubbie and the red one....I'd love to see them get their skulls bashed in. Seriously though, I'd love to see maybe Jak and Daxter. Of course, Jak would be the sidekick .

[GuttaGames]

Where could i get the sprites for these games?

[WilloughbyJackson]

To quote Marvel vs Capcom: "Let's get crazy!"
- Mario and Luigi
- Sonic and Tails
- Link and Zelda (I'm not sure what Zelda would do...)
- Jacky and Sarah Bryant (Virtua Fighter)
- Ling Xiaoyu and Panda (Tekken)
- Joe Musashi and Dog side Kick (Shinobi: Shadowdancer)
- Ted Diabase and Andre the Giant ("I'll put you to sleep with my Million Dollar Dream")
- Megaman X and Zero
- Homer and Bart Simpson
- Cloud and Tifa
- Chuji Wu and Epon (Tobal 2)
- Goku and Gohan (DBZ)
- Yusuke and Kuwabara (Yu Yu Hakusho)
- Batman and Robin
- Captain America and Bucky
- Scorpion and New Subzero
- Sam and Max
- Milk and Cheese
- Otra and Winter
- Tycho and Gabe
and of course
- Willoughby and Marmotte (What?)

EDIT 1: As for sprites.. you'd have to make most of these...I'm just giving a list...
EDIT 2: Apologizes to Leechmaster B for getting distracted...Back to his game...

What games have you play B?

[GuttaGames]

Hey i got to tell you a secret that some of those people on your list already are going to be on the game.......

[LeechmasterB]

Thread invaders!!!! ARRR PIRATES PREPARE FOR A DUEL!

Nah just kidding .

Hell yeah WilloughbyJackson I would like to hear your ideas and thoughts, you can empty your heart about fightgames to me I consider it all valuable information.

I did not understand everything above so well though.

"How much block damage does it do? How much block knockback does the move do? Does it have different knockback if the person is attacking? Does it hit High, Middle, or Low?"

Then do you think its a good idea to have only punch kick and block as option compared to high/low punch and high/low kick and block or quick and strong punch and kick and block? I thought of having the basics being able to combo them, be able to combo combos. And have individual combos for each character (entering the combos will be different on every character or may be the basic combos will be same or similar on groups of characters).

Well I am keen to read your next post .

greets

[Pugger]

Oooo, Sam and Max have to be in the game!

That would be awesome.

[GuttaGames]

Well do ya know any sprite sheet places because im all out.

[WilloughbyJackson]

Oooo, Sam and Max have to be in the game!

That would be awesome.

A man after my own heart!

LeechyB, admittedly, I work better if I have something in front of me to see, but I'll try my best to at least clarify my earlier post.

I did not understand everything above so well though.

>SNIP<

Then do you think its a good idea to have only punch kick and block as option compared to high/low punch and high/low kick and block or quick and strong punch and kick and block?

Okay. Let's start at the beginning. I'm not referring to Mortal Kombat or Tekken style controls, but where moves hit. Even if you only have a punch, kick, and block, there probably still is a high, low and mid game.

Even with my Jigglypuff (3 buttons) and Psyduck (4 buttons): http://willoughby.homestead.com/files/Psy.jpg

(Don't ask me to explain MUGEN or I'll start to whimper...)

This "game" was started by Street Fighter II but has been refined since then and goes like this:

1) High attacks can hit standing opponents and opponents in the air. Most of the time they completely miss ducked opponents. They can be blocked at any level (High, Middle, Low (though most of the time, they don't even hit low) and if you have Air blocks, in the air).

2) Mid attacks can hit opponents when they are standing, ducking, and in the air. HOWEVER, they can only be blocked high and in the air. This means mid attacks can hit someone ducked even if they are blocking. (Example: Street Fighter II, Ryu and Ken's Axe Kick (Close in Fierce Kick Button) hit High and then Middle (or was it a Middle, Middle... hmmm...probably could find out on GameFaqs but I'm lazy tonight) so you could hit ducked and blocking ducked opponents with it).

3) Low attacks can hit people standing and ducking, but usually can't hit people in the air. (Just before they land but that's another story...) These can only be blocked low. This means if the person is standing blocked, they can still be hit.

This is the game that people play in fighting games (assuming they aren't button whammers ).

I thought of having the basics being able to combo them, be able to combo combos. And have individual combos for each character (entering the combos will be different on every character or may be the basic combos will be same or similar on groups of characters).

Depending upon who you talk to, fight games have several kinds of combos. There are basic combos, chain combos, and dial-a-combos.

Here are my definitions for these terms:

Basic Combos: (Example: Street Figher II the original, or Street Fighter III) When two or more moves hit in succession before the opponent being hit can either evade, recover from, or block the attack. This is the most general definition, and was ACCIDENTLY created by Capcom in Street Fighter II... That's right, they didn't plan for combos to happen, it just did.

Chain Combos: (Example: Street Fighter Alpha). This is where if you hit a normal move (and sometime special moves), as soon as the move hits the opponent (either blocked or not blocked), you can interrupt the attack recover animation and start another attack. (This sometimes includes special moves and super moves.)

What makes a chain combo different is the fact that (some people will argue) there is no real skill involved in a chain combos compared to basic combos. Since the recover animation is interrupted, you do not have to time out your attacks so you will recover before your opponent does, and then pick a move which will hit your opponent before they recover. Personally, I've always like chain combos. (Hence, why I play Jam in GGXX.)

Although chain combos are often designed to flow in order of power from weak attacks to strong attacks: (i.e Weak -> Weak -> Strong for example), it doesn't matter what buttons you press to get them to chain. (i.e. You can do a Weak standing jab -> Ducked middle Strong -> D,DF,F + Fierce Punch Fireball chain combo in Street Fighter Alpha...)

Dial-a-Combos: Dial-a-Combo are like chain combos, except you MUST press the buttons in a certain order or the combo won't happen. Personally, I HATE DIAL-A-COMBO! Tekken 10 hit strings, Killer Instinct, and Mortal Kombat 3 are great examples of dial-a-combo. You must hit the buttons in the exact right order/timing, or the full combo won't occur and often times, you'll be left wide open to be hit by your opponent.

"How much block damage does it do? How much block knockback does the move do? Does it have different knockback if the person is attacking? Does it hit High, Middle, or Low?"

I was just trying to illustrate the major error I've seen in most Flash fight games. When you hit your opponent, it isn't as simple as the opponent going into hit animation for a bit and then it's over. There are tons of variables which go into each hit. Knockback is just one of them.

Knockback is the amount of _x and _y an opponent is moved when hit. This helps give the illusion of power to a move.

For example: A jab punch (weak) only knocks the opponent back a tiny bit, allowing the fighter to attack with another jab punch (weak). However, a vicious roundhouse kick (fierce kick) will often knock the opponent back so far that by the time both recover, the fighter can't follow through, and the opponent can't immediately counter while the fighter is recovering from their attack animation.

If you look at something like Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution (One of my favorites of all time), there is another factor added. That is whether the opponent is attacking or not when they are hit.

For example: Lion has a dashing stomach poke (F,F + P) which when it hits an opponent, they fall over. HOWEVER, if the opponent is attacking when it hits, they go into a longer, stomach crush animation. This does more damage and also allows Lion to get more hits and more damage. In the VF world, this is called a Counter. It exists in the 2D world as well.

Any more questions?
(Also, what fight games have you played?)

-pXw
(REWARD FOR READING THIS ENTIRE POST! Here's some scary action with top Japanese fight game player Daigo (playing Ken) winning EVO 2004, Street Figher III: Third Strike Championship:
http://media.shoryuken.com/srk-daigo.zip If you don't know the game, Ken is parrying a LOT. A parry is done by pressing forward towards an attack just before it hits you. If you parry, the attack does no damage, but your timing has to be perfect! Daigo IS perfect!)

[Pugger]

Hey nice post. It was an interesting read into the mechanics of fighting games (I'll check out my 'prize' when I get home). Perhaps you should create a place on the web that can detail how to create fighting games and the theory behind them for flash?

Well do ya know any sprite sheet places because im all out.

Look on google.

But heres a site that has alot of sprites (quite a few from some games as well):

http://gifsjas.webcindario.com/

The site isn't in english, but is easy enough to navigate and find what you want. Look under Videojuegos for some video game sprites.

[WilloughbyJackson]

Believe it or not, I always felt I'd insult the hardcores.

Yes... there are people WAY MORE into fight games than me.

These are people who can count the number of frames in a move before it hits and understand the exact range to the point that they KNOW when you're just in range to nail you with a roundhouse or something. They also have quick enough reflects to be able to block, counter, and parry you to death before you even know what hit you.

I might still make one. (Once I build and finish my own fight game. Kung-Fu Rumble)

-pXw
EDIT: There are TONS of sprite sites out there... but always remember, you are technically breaking copyright laws..etc..etc...

[LeechmasterB]

WoW WilloughbyJackson I don't know how to thank you lol!!!! THANKS SO MUCH FOR THIS GREAT READ!

Well first thing, I have played Streetfighter and Streetfighter 2 Turbo (but not soo much), Shack Fuu (or something like that), Motral Combat, Wargods, Bio Freaks, Thrill Kill (this was only released for like 1 month and pulled back but you still can get a compy), some not to mention wrestling games, and my so far favorite: Mace the Dark Age.

Mace had some hardcore dial-a-combos (like you call them ^^) but it was awesome to get the fighters to actually do what you want. I knew all the moves of Koyasha at least but that was quiet a nice combat repertoire . But on the other fight games I usually did not study to many moves, just some strong and fast ones to win.
Oh yeah tekken was not so much my favorite. Right now thats all I can recall.


Now there is another question to combos though. How many graphically different moves should a fighter have? And is it okay just to combo standart moves graphically whise. The thing is I can't ask too much of my artist or he might get scared ^^.
How many animation frames should be the minimum for lets say a kick or punch?
Oh and if I did not mention it already Capoera Fighter 3 ROCKS!!

And another question... should the fighters move in steps (many pixels with pauses) or rather smooth?