Doooooom

**mr_malee** · 07-23-2007, 08:15 AM

yep, more 3D, maybe we should start a sub section for 3D games.

http://blog.brokenfunction.com/2007/...sh-plays-doom/

The performance on that is insane and its not even using any of the 3D API's, i especially love the texture mapping. Papervision doesn't do well in that department imo.

just thought i'd share.

as one famous guys said "if you want it done properly, do it yourself"

**phreax** · 07-23-2007, 08:48 AM

Yup, quite a nice demo! -and using the original data...I like that

**happinessSam** · 07-23-2007, 09:42 AM

Wow, that's pretty cool. Brings back old memories.

It can only be a matter of time before someone makes a good 3d first person game in flash.

**webgeek** · 07-23-2007, 09:55 AM

Yeah, that's very impressive. I keep saying someone needs to make a mplayer FPS and this engine could certainly do it.

**Cortana** · 07-23-2007, 09:56 AM

I preferred your previous avatar melee...

**tomsamson** · 07-23-2007, 10:05 AM

the technical achievement is (quite) nice but yeah,there are many reasons why we see more and more ports/emulations of classic 3d games and still no custom made new game.
just to name three big ones:
-you need 3d artists
-your dev time and with it costs will probably be much higher than for a 2d title
-connected to the previous: its not sure whether there´s actually already a revenue model for flash first person shooters for developers of the games
sure you can go with the rule: create it and they will come (to play it) but yeah,i can imagine lots and lots of people would also play a well done flash first person shooter in the browser but how many clients/other outlets are there for making a propper profit on a 3d first person shooter played in the browser?
As complexity and dev time for a title raises of course expectable returns should raise, too, otherwise its not worth it for a commercially working team and probably too time involving/ difficult for a group doing it just for fun.
Personally i know many outlets who´d buy a 3d first person shooter game if well done but few who´d be into paying way more money for it than for a 2d or fake 3d game which could probably attract a similar count of players.

**Fall_X** · 07-23-2007, 10:35 AM

a 2d or fake 3d game

If this engine uses the same techniques as the original doom, it is in fact fake 3d. But yeah, that's just semantics and I do get your point. However, if 3d becomes truely available to flash developers, I can only welcome that. Not that I'm some 3d junky, but if it means more possibilities, I'm up for it.

**tiny_legoman** · 07-26-2007, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by Fall_X

If this engine uses the same techniques as the original doom, it is in fact fake 3d. But yeah, that's just semantics and I do get your point. However, if 3d becomes truely available to flash developers, I can only welcome that. Not that I'm some 3d junky, but if it means more possibilities, I'm up for it.

looks pretty 3d to me. surely there is no such thing as true 3d on an inherantly 2d environment, such as a computer screen...

**gerbick** · 07-23-2007, 10:42 AM

Quite cool... took me back to my college days when I goofed off more than studied.

**tomsamson** · 07-23-2007, 10:53 AM

to Fall: haha,its funny you bring the point up that doom is fake 3d cause Squize and me were talking about that not too long ago,too (where the overall topic was 3d stuff done in flash, too)

And sure, to be to the point the initial doom version was of course fake 3d but yeah, i made the difference up between doom and fake 3d cause there are various degrees/different attempts for fake 3d stuff of course and i´d count doom way closer to real 3d than let´s say a mode 7 mario kart (which although it has similar faking manners only features flat terrain usually).
To get back to my overall point: a 3d game is probably more dev time/costs involving than a 2d game of comparable game genre

flash 3d games of this player gen are in my eyes what physics 2d games were for the pre f9 players gen: doable, but yeah, with heavy restrictions and then you have to do the math/estimation whether its worth it after all the wasted nights

**tonypa** · 07-23-2007, 11:05 AM

I like the speed, but then again I have seen similar examples since F5 and none have turned into playable game yet.

**renderhjs** · 07-23-2007, 11:09 AM

wow flash is indeed growing rapidly this year

**webgeek** · 07-23-2007, 11:14 AM

since F5 and none have turned into playable game yet.

I think part of the reason is that most of the examples were able the size of postage stamps and struggled to maintain a useful frame rate. This shows that you can get a reasonable resolution and fast enough frame rate to actually make something. I can say that this piqued Electrotank's interest

**tomsamson** · 07-23-2007, 11:19 AM

its got my interest, too and if there was a budget for it i´d jump in and do a fps game, too

**Squize** · 07-23-2007, 11:29 AM

That is so sweet.

I've had a fps style shooter rattling around in my head for a while, but that's just raised the bar totally over what I was planning.

Bugger.

F9 is just the gift which keeps on giving, as3 is so stupidly fast.

Squize.

**tonypa** · 07-23-2007, 12:43 PM

Yes-yes, good speed, but no collisions, no enemies and not any kind of game content beside the walls and floors. Adding all these surely wont allow the end result run any faster. Will it have enough speed to power full game?

**rachil0** · 07-23-2007, 01:21 PM

I've been working on one of these too, for the pixeldroid / RC4D3 arcade environment. It also works by per-pixel rendering.

( http://esl.eng.ohio-state.edu/~rac/doomclone.zip )

I've been hoping for 4 player support behind one standup arcade machine, like split screen goldeneye. If the rendering resolution is dropped low enough I think it can be done. One trick I have found is that rendering your peripheral vision at much lower resolution can save a lot of time. The decrease in quality isn't so noticeable because people are so focused on what is straight ahead. I also plan to use a lot of open ceiling areas, because you can cheaply render a pretty, high resolution panoramic background behind them with bitmapFill.

I am impressed that you rooted through all the original wadfile to get so much content so quickly. Do you use the same BSP tree algorithm that they used? (IIRC that data is stored in the wad). I didn't use that - I did portal rendering (like descent's renderer, but with dooms geometrical limitations). I am having trouble seeing why a BSP would be faster for the doom case -rendering a vertical strip of pixels is always linear cost in the number of sectors traversed, right?

**renderhjs** · 07-23-2007, 12:57 PM

at least I have my hopes up,- the enemy sprite part is less dificult as what he already did up till now.
If it really would load the original footage it would be cool seeing some older mods within the engine.

**webgeek** · 07-23-2007, 01:07 PM

Will it have enough speed to power full game?

And that's the real question

**renderhjs** · 07-23-2007, 01:43 PM

@rachil0:
nice demo really looks like doom 64 or goldeneye like said. But will multiple input controls work propper? at least most keyboards are limited in simultaneously pressing multiple keys

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