Prospect client wants to see design before entering contract?

[finksmart]

A prospect client wants to see a design of the site before signing the contract... I originally said no because I'd need to pay the designers to do the work. But they would not sign the contract until they see something. I even told him to look at our sample work. But now I'm thinking we'll give him something and put a watermark on it. what do you think?

[hanratty21]

Why not throw in retainer-type of fee. This would a good-faith type of payment more than a payment for services. If it's 100 or 150 dollars which would go as a deposit towards the final purchase price, I would imagine it wouldn't be that much of a burden on the client.

RH

[jamble]

some people do mockup work to win contracts, others don't. It's really down to you and whether you're willing to put the time into providing it.

If you do, just be clear that the design is your intellectual property and not theirs if they don't want to use you.

[WizyWyg]

Ask for a fee up front (non-refundable) that would be at a fraction of what you normally would charge.

Do not give him actual html/image files; just "screenshots" watermarked of what kinds of designs you could do.

[finksmart]

Yeh we have decided to give them a mock up design of the site and we gunna put watermark over it. Thanks for all the feedbacks they helped a great deal.

[jAQUAN]

For smaller things if a client forces me to I will agree to submit a mock-up and charge them for the hours in that if they dont go with it. Otherwise it's part of the package.

[TheOriginalFlashDavo]

Yeah, be careful how you go about this. If you don't charge for any design concepts then it's basically free pitching, which is not kosher with any of the design associations that I know, plus it's what has basically driven up the price of advertising to ridiculius levels - every job they get has to pay for the dozens of free pitches they do that don't win jobs.

I realise it ain't always easy to say no, when you need to put food on the table, but something like charging for the hours involved or similar would be the least you should do if you feel you have no choice.

Of course, any conceopt done this way then brings up another issue: that any truly effective design solution for them would require an amount of research on your behalf and client input that could only be justified if the project was signed off. Any design mockup done from an initial hour long conversation without proper research and testing would only take into account the most basic of needs for both the client and, most importantly, the users.

Of course, there are others out there who don't give a frig about the industry and only care about winning as much business as possible who will free pitch all day long...

Anyway, just some thoughts...

[Markp.com]

Moved to boardroom.

[indivision]

I agree with Davo. I would probably be weary about something like this. But, it is a judgement call based on many factors. For instance, if it's potentially a very lucrative contract, it's probably worth it. If you're getting the impression they're going to be stingy every step of the way... well...

It's like Texas Hold'em. You gotta play the pot odds. If you have a flush draw, the bet is 10 dollars and the pot is 20, you should probably fold. If the bet is 5 and the pot is 100, you better see that card!

[finksmart]

Good point. I think if we are too "stingy" on our part, we might not get what we what. Meaning much about business involves risks. "The biggest risk is not risking anything". We are going with indivision's philosophy. We're considering it an investment and an experiment of showcasing our skills. Of course, the watermark says we reserve all rights to it.

[OddDog]

i think this depends on the depth of your book or portfolio of past works.

1. if it is skinny , not good, or none existance, then you had better get used to doing this mock ups for free.

2. if you have a good portfolio or good book, then you should refuse point blank to work for free. If you are in the second category i get the impression that your sales effort has failed.

when starting out, it is pretty usual to do the first. later are you grow you shift over to the second category. if you do not then your professional career is having difficulties.

[finksmart]

we consider ourselves in the process of moving from the first category to the second.

[TheOriginalFlashDavo]

Originally posted by finksmart
we consider ourselves in the process of moving from the first category to the second.

If you really are then first thing is to stop feeling like you need to free pitch. If you want to position yourself as a "serious" studio (in inverted commas 'cos afterall, what is serious?) then this part of what I said is even more important:

"that any truly effective design solution for them would require an amount of research on your behalf and client input that could only be justified if the project was signed off. Any design mockup done from an initial hour long conversation without proper research and testing would only take into account the most basic of needs for both the client and, most importantly, the users."

Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide...

[erova]

Originally posted by TheOriginalFlashDavo
"that any truly effective design solution for them would require an amount of research on your behalf and client input that could only be justified if the project was signed off. Any design mockup done from an initial hour long conversation without proper research and testing would only take into account the most basic of needs for both the client and, most importantly, the users."

i entirely agree with this comment.

by someone saying, "well, gimme a sample of what i can expect", you're not given the chance to develop a solution that caters to their audience (because you haven't done the research yet), their brand (because you haven't talked to their marketing department/person yet), or what systems they've already got in place or used in the past (because you haven't talked to their tech guys yet).

so basically they just want to see a rough idea of what you could make, which is exactly what they could find in your portfolio.

i also agree with davo that you're going to be taken more seriously, and consider yourself more professional, if you take the step forward and say "i'm not gonna do free work". it may mean you don't get every single contract, but those may be contracts you never wanted anyway.

keep in mind you're paid to develop the identity of the product and the product itself, and the creative hours to develop that identity are always worth far more than the production, though clients don't always see it that way. by developing a mockup for free, you're already basically playing your hand.

[dlowe93]

Originally posted by erova
i entirely agree with this comment.
keep in mind you're paid to develop the identity of the product and the product itself, and the creative hours to develop that identity are always worth far more than the production, though clients don't always see it that way. by developing a mockup for free, you're already basically playing your hand.

By doing spec work you are also investing in the project, while the client invests nothing, which puts you in a weak negotiating position. What happens when you do the work, and the client comes back with a "we like it, but don't love it, we'll pay you half what you quoted us." What are you going to do? You have put in the time, you need to get something back. Is half better than nothing? It's a tough call.

We recently were asked to do a round one site development on spec, for a client that we really wanted. Rather than do a site design, we proposed doing a brand expoloration exercise/document that showed the initial research that we would go through to examine their brand and how we would position them.

It worked on several levels, in that we could show them the thought and creative process that we go through here, without actually giving them designs, and if they decided to not use us, we still have a cool internal document that then could be used to pitch other clients.

We still haven't heard if it paid off, but at least we developed something we are all happy with, without giving away any free work.

d.

[Ultima Designs]

Our contract does it 50-50. They pay an initial, non-refundable fee (50% of the agreed amount) and then the other half after completion.

[TheOriginalFlashDavo]

Originally posted by dlowe93
We recently were asked to do a round one site development on spec, for a client that we really wanted. Rather than do a site design, we proposed doing a brand expoloration exercise/document that showed the initial research that we would go through to examine their brand and how we would position them.

It worked on several levels, in that we could show them the thought and creative process that we go through here, without actually giving them designs, and if they decided to not use us, we still have a cool internal document that then could be used to pitch other clients.

I like that idea...

...a lot.

"brand exploration document"

"brand exploration report"

Has a nice ring to it too...

[gecko2]

The company I used to work for would gladly do more than 1 mock-up for a potential client, sometimes as many as 5 without charging anything. Now I have my own business if the client asks for something I direct them to previous work I have done on our portfolio, if they like it they usually come with us and sign a contract for us to start work, if not then so be it. I don't see the point in giving a proposal AND free ideas, which could and are then passed on to cheaper designers to try and copy. Aww bless them....

[voxunity]

the down payment insures the commitment...

[Wok]

I'd usually say 15% upfront after (discussing possible solutions), then provide a detailed business plan containing contract/commitment.