Some 2advanced Criticism

frreestyle · 03-10-2002, 11:18 PM

I've been looking at and studying Eric Jordan's work for quite some time and I used to think it was amazing. But i've come to realize that his entire portfolio is filled with nothing but flashy animations and terrific "tricks" and techniques. Graphic/web design is not just about aesthetics and creating visually interesting layouts. Every intro to a web site he has made looks exactly alike. You can always tell that he created it. Now this may be a good thing because of his "signature" but they all communicate the same thing. They all scream out "futuristic" and "fast-paced" Do you really think that LasikPlus - a site for eye surgery, needed a fast-paced in your face intro? This communicates to the viewer something totally different. Even the BankGothic typeface he uses on almost everything he creates. This tells me "futuristic" and "technical" Why is he using this on a web site for a dance club?

Graphic design is about communicating visually. He has very flashy visuals, but his designs lack communication. A layout needs a voice, just like a person. Everyone has their own unique voice to identify them. Every one of his designs has the exact same voice as each other. A good designer wont give the same voice to a dance club and a digital media company.

And what is with the "hexagons"? Why does it seem like every designer now is using these hexagons as a design device. What do they tell the viewer about the product or service? Absolutely nothing, they simply get in the way of the message thats trying to be conveyed. I noticed alot of Eric Jordans designs use these meaningless graphics and animated lines. I always think that simplicity is the best way to go. You're trying to tell the viewer something, so why put all this excess junk in there, it will only confuse the person. Think of the IPOD advertisement for Apple computers. A picture of the product with one simple line of text: "1,000 songs in your pocket" This right here is an excellent example of great communication design. No clutter, no bull**** - the message (signal) is sent straight to the viewer and they get it right away. None of that futuristic bull****.

I do think Eric Jordan is a great designer and he knows how to work a computer, but i dont think his work is as great as you make it out to be. Nobody is looking at the big picture. Does it sell? Does it help the company? Flashy design is nothing but something fun to look at.

aversion · 03-10-2002, 11:53 PM

hmmm, i should really move this to the design and graphics forum, but i will see how it develops. Keep it real people ;)

please contribute with intelligent opinion rather than '2a suck'/'rule' to avoid your post's deletion :P

eric's forte is definitely in motion and the effective use of it, his site designs are good but i have to agree that they don't communicate well.

I can understand why a laser eye surgery site would want something fast paced and futuristic, it's cosmetic surgery... but i would also look at that site and say it's design doesn't tell me a damn thing about the companyor the product i am looking at. All the elements of the design are there but they're not held together by the function of the site or the 'voice' the company should be looking to get across. It's just not heard.

Whether his sites are too fussy is an aesthetic opinion (i think the actual 2a site works just fine)... i tend to think simpler is better though and your example of the apple ad is a good one, but it's possible to find a fussier looking design work that gets its message across just as effectively, i think the real point is that the apple ad works for it's purpose and a lot of 2advanced sites just don't.

eric jordan's work is one note, i mean it's a hell of a note, but i don't think it works over and over again, you can't help thinking that he is either being pressed into reworking the same design regardless of purpose and function by clients wanting that 'look', or maybe he is disregarding the basic purpose of design... but that seems so harsh coming from me, someone who would give his left thumb for such skills.

easier a critic to be i guess. Good points though, i absolutely agree that as working designs 2advanced's portfolio fall short of succeeding.

gasbag15 · 03-11-2002, 12:50 AM

"Graphic/web design is not just about aesthetics and creating visually interesting layouts."

Umm.. yes it is.

I would say futuristic is what people want now days.
The clients more than likely ask him for that.

To be honest, I'm into the futuristic style.
But I have to respect your opinions.
[Edited by gasbag15 on 03-10-2002 at 11:53 PM]

Mr Tyler Durden · 03-11-2002, 12:53 AM

I can see what you are saying but just beacuse a person sticks with one style doesn't mean that they can't make other types of work. Maybe he just enjoys working with the 'fast paced in your face ' style.

aversion · 03-11-2002, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gasbag15
"Graphic/web design is not just about aesthetics and creating visually interesting layouts."

Umm.. yes it is.

but it's not, it's partly about that but it's certainly not all about that.

the point of any design is to communicate a message not an aesthetic. A 'look' or a 'style' is a means of design not the end.

frreestyle · 03-11-2002, 01:42 AM

You have to be kidding me if you think graphic design is solely about visually interesting design. we like to call it "communications design" - notice how the word communications is longer than the word design, and how it comes BEFORE the word design. This is because it is most important. A futuristic layout means absolutely nothing if its not for a "futuristic" type of company. You say that futuristic style of design is most popular nowadays? Well if a designer uses that style on a web site for a product or service that isnt futuristic in any way, shape or form than they are wrong. So what if something looks cool, it really isnt helping the company out in any way. what helps the company send a message is, clarity, visual flow of information, a hierarchy of type, most importantly a voice, and after all of that is taken care of, then you can incorporate the aesthetics of the piece.

Im just so sick about hearing how everyone thinks that 2advanced is so amazing. In a sense it is because of the flash animation, but as a graphic designer I really feel that eric jordan needs to improve on his communication skills. What he really is, is an artist expressing his futuristc designs and animations. Certainly not a designer from what i can see

aversion · 03-11-2002, 01:44 AM

--- form follows function ---

.

ziad10 · 03-11-2002, 01:46 AM

...that's like saying "oh sony's not that good cuz they only make slick devices...why don't they make bulky multi colored devices?"

that is there style, and if people want cool looking tv's or notebooks then they will like sony

the reason 2advanced sticks to the futuristic style is because thats what they are into, that's what they like!

if you don't want a futuristic style then don't go to them.
if you do want a futuristic style then go to 2advanced because they are awesome!

after reading your post, i just felt like you were jealous or something.

i'm sorry :P
i just don't agree with you at all

i'm into the futuristic style

if someone forced me to do a site with a "gothic orange" style, it would suck! cuz that's not what i'm into, i don't like that kind of thing... get it?

the reason 2 advanced is cool is becasue they make awesome futuristic sites,

i think its wrong to say, they are only great if they can do a lot of other styles as well.

what do you think of all this rambling? do you agree? or do you hate me? lol

frreestyle · 03-11-2002, 01:47 AM

... and i also have to say that if you have a client that asks for a futuristic web site, and lets just say they are a company that sells food products for example, it is your responsibility as a great designer to tell them that this wont work in selling their products. Many people always do what the clients ask for. But the great designers will tell them that the web site they are asking for has no meaning and the wrong voice coming from a food company. You will notice that if that web site is made with a futuristic look, it will seem oddly out of place and unprofessional

aversion · 03-11-2002, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ziad10
...that's like saying "oh sony's not that good cuz they only make slick devices...why don't they make bulky multi colored devices?"

but the point there is that the futuristic style is appropriate and the design of the devices is functional. In my opinion the 2advanced site is fine, it expresses and communicates what they want it to perfectly, but i also think that most of their portfolio sites favour form over function.

Quote:

Originally posted by ziad10
...that is their style, and if people want cool looking tv's or notebooks then they will like sony

yes but they wouldn't like the sonys if they were hard to operate and not advanced pieces of technology.

Quote:

Originally posted by ziad10
i think its wrong to say, they are only great if they can do a lot of other styles as well.

style is one thing but it is not the same as design! A futuristic style is great if the design of the work is appropriate and fulfills the function of the site...

Quote:

Originally posted by ziad10
...
what do you think of all this rambling? do you agree? or do you hate me? lol

lol! everyone is entitled to their opinion i just think you're missing the point slightly. It's not about whether the 2advanced 'style' is good or not, it's about whether the way this style is applied is good design....

ziad10 · 03-11-2002, 02:07 AM

yeah sorry i kinda went off on something else huh?
me=bad
lol

:P

space ghost is on soon!!

jacci · 03-11-2002, 04:54 AM

I think the LasikPlus site works kinda fine, thinking how many visitors they get every day. I think that without eric jordan the visits would be something like 3-5 times less then nowdays.

So many times designers tells me that I should find my own style and stick on it. Why on earth?? I have never done 2 sites with same style and I think I have worked right. It seems that nowdays ppl have started to think the same way. I really love Eric's work but I think that he should try some other styles too. Working with same style over and over again is kinda boring, I think.

flashkitkat · 03-11-2002, 07:15 AM

I agree with you frreestyle!!
I been doing design for more than 6 years and as a graphic designer I can tell you that design = creativity. I think eric jordan is a very good "flasher", don't count on me to say one of the best flasher out there, the 2advanced site is great but in terms of new concepts and new designsI can tell you that they have a lot to learn. All the sites they have done look the same.But the reason why I am writing all this is to ask you not to praise 2advanced that much ....this is not jealousy MR.ziad10 this is to open your eyes, I can imagine you behind your PC trying to copy the 2 advanced site and saying "I'm into futuristic style". Try to be creative man look around you there is much better.
And will end all this by saying futuristic style itself is divided into various parts ex, xeofreestyle.com digitzero.com so 2advanced does not equal to futuristic style, it is a good concept but now those guys a designing website as if they are doing MacDonalds burger's, add some cheese here, a double burger there, spicy one over here .....try some noodle guys may be it will help.
Remember this is not jealously but common sense.
So long

joey164 · 03-11-2002, 09:43 AM

I totally agree with you frreestyle. Just out of curiousity though what sites out there do follow your theory of "communication design" as you so eliquently put it.

I'm completely on your side. I to believe that simplicity is far more greatly than complexity. Makes how different impression when you get to the point than beat around the bush.............

egush13 · 03-11-2002, 01:09 PM

I think his complexity is what keeps him noticed. His sites are well thought out and the look is what people want. Clients have say over what the design should reflect and they obviously want his style. Yes he should explore more but his way of animating should follow. Nothing is wrong with trading up circle or square for a hexagon.. haha

jacci · 03-11-2002, 02:46 PM

Anyways it's not our job to tell how one designer from New York should work, or is it? So after better thinking I would say that this treath is pointless. :\

Damaso · 03-11-2002, 03:02 PM

hmmm...
It seems like cool site thread is infected by a 2advanced disease. Criticism and admiration is everywhere.
[Edited by Damaso on 03-11-2002 at 02:21 PM]

frreestyle · 03-11-2002, 03:02 PM

im not criticizing his work because i think he should work differently. im only stating these things because I noticed that just about everyone who posts messages on these boards praise 2advanced. I think its time that someone had to come out and say, hey this guy's work isn't as great as you make it out to be. most people seem to think that graphic/web design is about cool looking web sites. Even the awards that flashkit.com give out in the featured section: there are a lot of cases where they're giving these things out to web sites that just look cool. And this may be because flashkit.com is about cool uses of flash. So in that case there might not be anything wrong with it, but i would love to be there when eric jordan meets with these clients and tells them "i think im gonna throw in some hexagons and circles and squares because it looks interesting and people like it" this isnt helping the company out.

There are a lot of web sites posted in the featured section that when I click the link to go to the site, at first glance I have no idea what this site is supposed to be about. I would have to click on the "profile" section to see what im really looking at. This a good example of bad design. When you visit a web page, you should be able to recognize the voice of the company and know what you're looking at right away, unless the intent was to confuse the viewer to get them to dig deeper - but thats a whole different ball game.

joey164 · 03-11-2002, 03:13 PM

You know what would really be a good idea frreestyle why dont you create a site of your own in which you can show inspiring graphic designers whats the real deal.

i think that would get your point across much better than blasting off on someone else work.....

Note to say that i dont agree with you ......i really dont see why people praise this cat like he's a god or something, there are a lot of website out there that are 3x better than his and yet no one talks about them.....

anyhow to make a long story short try developing a website which promotes your ideas and visions. And maybe have a section in which inspiring artist can go to get some ideas on developing a well rounded website like the one you have created............

does that make more sense..???

frreestyle · 03-11-2002, 03:20 PM

O i definitely will eventually create some sites to show you, i wish i had the time to do it now. But im in the process of learning communications design and studying web design on the side. im a student at a design program in syracuse university in New York. But i do think we will be creating web sites next year for our senior portfolios. Im also looking into doing some work over the summer.

But i do want to let you know that i didnt post these remarks because i think im better. this has nothing to do with me. Im simply taking what i've learned and comparing it to other sites that people call amazing. I want to let you know that just because a majority claims something is incredible, this is not always the case.

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03-10-2002, 11:18 PM	#1
frreestyle Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 180	I've been looking at and studying Eric Jordan's work for quite some time and I used to think it was amazing. But i've come to realize that his entire portfolio is filled with nothing but flashy animations and terrific "tricks" and techniques. Graphic/web design is not just about aesthetics and creating visually interesting layouts. Every intro to a web site he has made looks exactly alike. You can always tell that he created it. Now this may be a good thing because of his "signature" but they all communicate the same thing. They all scream out "futuristic" and "fast-paced" Do you really think that LasikPlus - a site for eye surgery, needed a fast-paced in your face intro? This communicates to the viewer something totally different. Even the BankGothic typeface he uses on almost everything he creates. This tells me "futuristic" and "technical" Why is he using this on a web site for a dance club? Graphic design is about communicating visually. He has very flashy visuals, but his designs lack communication. A layout needs a voice, just like a person. Everyone has their own unique voice to identify them. Every one of his designs has the exact same voice as each other. A good designer wont give the same voice to a dance club and a digital media company. And what is with the "hexagons"? Why does it seem like every designer now is using these hexagons as a design device. What do they tell the viewer about the product or service? Absolutely nothing, they simply get in the way of the message thats trying to be conveyed. I noticed alot of Eric Jordans designs use these meaningless graphics and animated lines. I always think that simplicity is the best way to go. You're trying to tell the viewer something, so why put all this excess junk in there, it will only confuse the person. Think of the IPOD advertisement for Apple computers. A picture of the product with one simple line of text: "1,000 songs in your pocket" This right here is an excellent example of great communication design. No clutter, no bull** - the message (signal) is sent straight to the viewer and they get it right away. None of that futuristic bull**. I do think Eric Jordan is a great designer and he knows how to work a computer, but i dont think his work is as great as you make it out to be. Nobody is looking at the big picture. Does it sell? Does it help the company? Flashy design is nothing but something fun to look at.

03-10-2002, 11:53 PM	#2
aversion Retired Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: insomnia Posts: 7,917	hmmm, i should really move this to the design and graphics forum, but i will see how it develops. Keep it real people ;) please contribute with intelligent opinion rather than '2a suck'/'rule' to avoid your post's deletion :P eric's forte is definitely in motion and the effective use of it, his site designs are good but i have to agree that they don't communicate well. I can understand why a laser eye surgery site would want something fast paced and futuristic, it's cosmetic surgery... but i would also look at that site and say it's design doesn't tell me a damn thing about the companyor the product i am looking at. All the elements of the design are there but they're not held together by the function of the site or the 'voice' the company should be looking to get across. It's just not heard. Whether his sites are too fussy is an aesthetic opinion (i think the actual 2a site works just fine)... i tend to think simpler is better though and your example of the apple ad is a good one, but it's possible to find a fussier looking design work that gets its message across just as effectively, i think the real point is that the apple ad works for it's purpose and a lot of 2advanced sites just don't. eric jordan's work is one note, i mean it's a hell of a note, but i don't think it works over and over again, you can't help thinking that he is either being pressed into reworking the same design regardless of purpose and function by clients wanting that 'look', or maybe he is disregarding the basic purpose of design... but that seems so harsh coming from me, someone who would give his left thumb for such skills. easier a critic to be i guess. Good points though, i absolutely agree that as working designs 2advanced's portfolio fall short of succeeding.

03-11-2002, 12:50 AM	#3
gasbag15 FK's official coffee addict Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,867	"Graphic/web design is not just about aesthetics and creating visually interesting layouts." Umm.. yes it is. I would say futuristic is what people want now days. The clients more than likely ask him for that. To be honest, I'm into the futuristic style. But I have to respect your opinions. [Edited by gasbag15 on 03-10-2002 at 11:53 PM]

03-11-2002, 12:53 AM	#4
Mr Tyler Durden Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7	I can see what you are saying but just beacuse a person sticks with one style doesn't mean that they can't make other types of work. Maybe he just enjoys working with the 'fast paced in your face ' style.

03-11-2002, 01:42 AM	#6
frreestyle Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 180	You have to be kidding me if you think graphic design is solely about visually interesting design. we like to call it "communications design" - notice how the word communications is longer than the word design, and how it comes BEFORE the word design. This is because it is most important. A futuristic layout means absolutely nothing if its not for a "futuristic" type of company. You say that futuristic style of design is most popular nowadays? Well if a designer uses that style on a web site for a product or service that isnt futuristic in any way, shape or form than they are wrong. So what if something looks cool, it really isnt helping the company out in any way. what helps the company send a message is, clarity, visual flow of information, a hierarchy of type, most importantly a voice, and after all of that is taken care of, then you can incorporate the aesthetics of the piece. Im just so sick about hearing how everyone thinks that 2advanced is so amazing. In a sense it is because of the flash animation, but as a graphic designer I really feel that eric jordan needs to improve on his communication skills. What he really is, is an artist expressing his futuristc designs and animations. Certainly not a designer from what i can see

03-11-2002, 01:44 AM	#7
aversion Retired Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: insomnia Posts: 7,917	--- form follows function --- .

03-11-2002, 01:46 AM	#8
ziad10 Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 64	...that's like saying "oh sony's not that good cuz they only make slick devices...why don't they make bulky multi colored devices?" that is there style, and if people want cool looking tv's or notebooks then they will like sony the reason 2advanced sticks to the futuristic style is because thats what they are into, that's what they like! if you don't want a futuristic style then don't go to them. if you do want a futuristic style then go to 2advanced because they are awesome! after reading your post, i just felt like you were jealous or something. i'm sorry :P i just don't agree with you at all i'm into the futuristic style if someone forced me to do a site with a "gothic orange" style, it would suck! cuz that's not what i'm into, i don't like that kind of thing... get it? the reason 2 advanced is cool is becasue they make awesome futuristic sites, i think its wrong to say, they are only great if they can do a lot of other styles as well. what do you think of all this rambling? do you agree? or do you hate me? lol

03-11-2002, 01:47 AM	#9
frreestyle Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 180	... and i also have to say that if you have a client that asks for a futuristic web site, and lets just say they are a company that sells food products for example, it is your responsibility as a great designer to tell them that this wont work in selling their products. Many people always do what the clients ask for. But the great designers will tell them that the web site they are asking for has no meaning and the wrong voice coming from a food company. You will notice that if that web site is made with a futuristic look, it will seem oddly out of place and unprofessional

03-11-2002, 02:07 AM	#11
ziad10 Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 64	yeah sorry i kinda went off on something else huh? me=bad lol :P space ghost is on soon!!

03-11-2002, 04:54 AM	#12
jacci simo Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Finland Posts: 289	I think the LasikPlus site works kinda fine, thinking how many visitors they get every day. I think that without eric jordan the visits would be something like 3-5 times less then nowdays. So many times designers tells me that I should find my own style and stick on it. Why on earth?? I have never done 2 sites with same style and I think I have worked right. It seems that nowdays ppl have started to think the same way. I really love Eric's work but I think that he should try some other styles too. Working with same style over and over again is kinda boring, I think.

03-11-2002, 07:15 AM	#13
flashkitkat Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 30	I agree with you frreestyle!! I been doing design for more than 6 years and as a graphic designer I can tell you that design = creativity. I think eric jordan is a very good "flasher", don't count on me to say one of the best flasher out there, the 2advanced site is great but in terms of new concepts and new designsI can tell you that they have a lot to learn. All the sites they have done look the same.But the reason why I am writing all this is to ask you not to praise 2advanced that much ....this is not jealousy MR.ziad10 this is to open your eyes, I can imagine you behind your PC trying to copy the 2 advanced site and saying "I'm into futuristic style". Try to be creative man look around you there is much better. And will end all this by saying futuristic style itself is divided into various parts ex, xeofreestyle.com digitzero.com so 2advanced does not equal to futuristic style, it is a good concept but now those guys a designing website as if they are doing MacDonalds burger's, add some cheese here, a double burger there, spicy one over here .....try some noodle guys may be it will help. Remember this is not jealously but common sense. So long

03-11-2002, 09:43 AM	#14
joey164 Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 83	I totally agree with you frreestyle. Just out of curiousity though what sites out there do follow your theory of "communication design" as you so eliquently put it. I'm completely on your side. I to believe that simplicity is far more greatly than complexity. Makes how different impression when you get to the point than beat around the bush.............

03-11-2002, 01:09 PM	#15
egush13 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: DC Posts: 403	I think his complexity is what keeps him noticed. His sites are well thought out and the look is what people want. Clients have say over what the design should reflect and they obviously want his style. Yes he should explore more but his way of animating should follow. Nothing is wrong with trading up circle or square for a hexagon.. haha

03-11-2002, 02:46 PM	#16
jacci simo Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Finland Posts: 289	Anyways it's not our job to tell how one designer from New York should work, or is it? So after better thinking I would say that this treath is pointless. :\

03-11-2002, 03:02 PM	#17
Damaso Guest User Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: florida Posts: 213	hmmm... It seems like cool site thread is infected by a 2advanced disease. Criticism and admiration is everywhere. [Edited by Damaso on 03-11-2002 at 02:21 PM]

03-11-2002, 03:13 PM	#19
joey164 Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 83	You know what would really be a good idea frreestyle why dont you create a site of your own in which you can show inspiring graphic designers whats the real deal. i think that would get your point across much better than blasting off on someone else work..... Note to say that i dont agree with you ......i really dont see why people praise this cat like he's a god or something, there are a lot of website out there that are 3x better than his and yet no one talks about them..... anyhow to make a long story short try developing a website which promotes your ideas and visions. And maybe have a section in which inspiring artist can go to get some ideas on developing a well rounded website like the one you have created............ does that make more sense..???

03-11-2002, 03:20 PM	#20
frreestyle Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 180	O i definitely will eventually create some sites to show you, i wish i had the time to do it now. But im in the process of learning communications design and studying web design on the side. im a student at a design program in syracuse university in New York. But i do think we will be creating web sites next year for our senior portfolios. Im also looking into doing some work over the summer. But i do want to let you know that i didnt post these remarks because i think im better. this has nothing to do with me. Im simply taking what i've learned and comparing it to other sites that people call amazing. I want to let you know that just because a majority claims something is incredible, this is not always the case.