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gul
08-12-2002, 10:33 AM
Hi,

Have searched the net for the best way to do it.

Have come to the conclusion for PAL format, the best
way to do it is to make my animation at 720 to 576 pix,
72dpi at 25 frames/sec. Export the result as BMPs and
import it in Premiere. My problem is that I would like
to show the work on web too...25 frames and this resolution
needs extra processor power.

Please let me know of an optimal way to do it. Thanks.

whiterabbit
08-13-2002, 12:46 AM
The big three are Quicktime, Windows Media and Real. All 3 do a pretty good job of putting out large size video though yours appears to be really large sized. I would start by expecting to cut frames drastically.

I dont have any DV samples but here is an example of monsters inc at 8 fps. streamed in flash

http://www.mantaproductions.com
and click on the showcase link. Its not a huge file but you will still need broadband. Animation retains smooth action much better than real objects such as people.

and here is an example of video at similar resolution to what you want to do, different aspect ration, also streamed in Flash

http://www.mantaproductions.com/fullscreen

Having seen some excellent movie trailers full screen I sort of lean towards quick time for something like this but expect large file sizes. Good luck on your search

jp

gul
08-13-2002, 09:27 AM
Thx. whiterabbit the manta site is pretty good, though the advances in MX have made SV (simulated video) obsolete.
What i am looking for is in the lines of
http://www.flickerlab.com/flashtovideo/
to make broadcast television with the Flash tool, in my case
its PAL but at a slightly different resolution it could be NTSC.
It can be done:-
http://www.irconnect.com/untd/pages/news_releases.shtml?d=17553
Flashkit has also a brief tutorial to do it `the hard way´,
BUT how to make something simultaneously for web and TV?
i need a guru ...

whiterabbit
08-13-2002, 10:12 AM
Sorry misunderstood, I thought you were trying to encode TO VIDEO for streaming online with a DV Codec. I dont really see the problem with exporting to sequence of images at whatever aspect ratio you decide upon and then reworking them with a video editor like you have done or After Effects but as you say large screen vector animation especially with lots of simultaneously animated elements is a problem that more powerfull processors will overcome before the Flash player does.

As far as MX making sv obsolete, I disagree. MX attempts to stream too much like a dv codec which it fails to do as well and it does not offer the design lattitude, or interactive capability that SV does

ie: such as ease of synchronizing multiple video clips over multiple full screen backgrounds and having them all interact with each other.


last of all the player 6 is not nearly as widely distributed (even less than the media players) and its slower. If I am going to limit my audience then I will do it with a DV codec which is eons ahead of mx.

cheers
jp

jgalore
08-16-2002, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by gul
Thx. whiterabbit the manta site is pretty good, though the advances in MX have made SV (simulated video) obsolete.
What i am looking for is in the lines of
http://www.flickerlab.com/flashtovideo/
to make broadcast television with the Flash tool, in my case
its PAL but at a slightly different resolution it could be NTSC.
It can be done:-
http://www.irconnect.com/untd/pages/news_releases.shtml?d=17553
Flashkit has also a brief tutorial to do it `the hard way´,
BUT how to make something simultaneously for web and TV?
i need a guru ...



Hey there, just found this thread. I've recently finished co-authoring a book on going from Flash to broadcast TV or video, which will be out in the Fall from Wiley, called (surprise) "Flash MX Design for TV and Video." I've taken Web-based animation to TV (MTV) - it can indeed be done.

So enough of the personal plug... You are defnitely on the right track. If you need broadcast quality video and don't need smooth native Flash on the Web, then you should build your project at 25 fps, 720x576 (for PAL), then export either to image sequences or AVI/uncompressed QT and bring into your favorite video editor for broadcast export. To go out to the Web from there, I agree that treating the project as video (no longer Flash), and delivering in QT, Real, or WindowsMedia is the best way to go.

If smooth Web performance in native Flash is more important than broadcast quality video, then you'll want to start with a lower frame rate (like 12 fps), and deal with pull-down frame rate conversion issues in your video editor later when going out to 25fps video. You can create the project at either 320x256 or 720x576 (if you are using all vector-based art), and export the frames at 720x576 to import into the video editor. If you use 720x576, then when delivering on the Web you'll want to make sure your window size is set to be smaller, like 320x256, so the graphics don't choke the processor.

As whiterabbit points out, you'll also want to compromise on the complexity of the animation if you are sticking with Flash on the Web side.

There are a lot of different ways to do this, and there are many trade-offs. Not sure this is any help -- feel free to ask more questions!

best,
janet galore

gul
08-16-2002, 06:26 PM
Well, optimizing the complexity of the animation
we leave for an another thread..if there are new
ideas on that score, they would be indeed welcome.

Jgalore;
"If you use 720x576, then when delivering on the Web you'll want to make sure your window size is set to be smaller, like 320x256, so the graphics don't choke the processor".

Could you please quantify the saving?
An obvious answer may be 1/4th but i am not sure if the
Flash player works this way.

You also write:
"You can create the project at .. 320x256 .. and export the frames at 720x576 to import into the video editor".

I do not see this option in my copy of Flash.

Cheers janet & jp !! its weekend.
http://hotwired.lycos.com/cocktail/
- gul

jgalore
08-16-2002, 06:51 PM
Jgalore;
"If you use 720x576, then when delivering on the Web you'll want to make sure your window size is set to be smaller, like 320x256, so the graphics don't choke the processor".

gul;
Could you please quantify the saving?
An obvious answer may be 1/4th but i am not sure if the
Flash player works this way.

I'm not sure either, but so much depends on the type of processor and graphics card the user's computer has. Some computers can play 640x480 @ 30 fps no problem, and some have trouble with 320x240 @ 15 fps. In my experience, to be playable at a decent framerate on the Web (12 or 15 fps), the Flash window can't be much more than 320x256 if you have anything much happening in the window. It also depends on whether you have the quality set to high or not, but I always have animation set to high because of the smoothing.

gul;
You also write:
"You can create the project at .. 320x256 .. and export the frames at 720x576 to import into the video editor".

I do not see this option in my copy of Flash.

In Flash (pretty much any version past 3), select File...Export Movie. You will have many filetype options, some of which are image sequences. Type in a filename to save as, select your export file type (say, PNG sequence), and you will see another dialog box which gives you options in which to specify the pixel dimensions of your image sequence (among other things). Thus you can export image sequences that are bigger than your original file size.

Have a great wknd - thanks for the cocktail. :)

jg

towerbuilder
10-05-2004, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by jgalore

Hey there, just found this thread. I've recently finished co-authoring a book on going from Flash to broadcast TV or video, which will be out in the Fall from Wiley, called (surprise) "Flash MX Design for TV and Video." I've taken Web-based animation to TV (MTV) - it can indeed be done.

I just purchased your book (Flash MX Design for TV and Video), and I just want to say that it is awesome.

I am on my way to building an animation for TV. I choose the NTSC format because I am planning to target the US audience first (did I choose the right broadcast format?) Anyway, I am doing it at 30fps and dimension size of 720 x 480 .

With 30fps, does this mean that I have to make lots of frames to finish a 10 second animation (I already have more than 400 frames)? I am trying to make a 30 minute animation video. Seems to be a stupid question, but this is my first time to do all of these.

towerbuilder