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11-30-2000, 11:21 PM
Something bothers me. I have found KoolMoves to be a much better program then SWISH, FlaX(or whatever), etc....yet it gets so little attention. My main complaint is the lack of interest from FlashKit. I know that there are actually quite a few people using KoolMoves. I wonder why FlashKit has not reviewed KoolMoves, or posted any of the tutorials that Johnie has submitted, or all around not accepted KoolMoves creations. And you can't tell me because its not Flash, SWISH is not flash, yet has been reviewed, has tutorials in FlashKit....etc...Now on another note, I believe the reviews are not created by the people of FlashKit but by outside sources. If this is so, then would a new user to KoolMoves please submit a review, I would do it, but since I have used it so long, I would be kind of biased...a newbies opinion would be better.

Any opinions????


11-30-2000, 11:41 PM
They accept it if they do not Know Kool Moves created it. I have entered HOF Twice with Kool Moves and took 7'th and 4'th. What I say is that a bunch of Kool Movers Flood the next HOF or Magma and Include a huge Whoping "Made with Kool Moves" Logo on their work.

12-01-2000, 12:07 AM
Enter HOF here: http://nerdflat.tripod.com/register.html

12-01-2000, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by BradBradleySL
I have found KoolMoves to be a much better program then SWISH, FlaX(or whatever

While I agree with you that Koolmoves is a great program, I don't know that it's necessarily better than Swish or Flax, but nor would I say that they're better either, they're all so different.

Koolmoves is a great flash animation engine, the best I've found. Swish is a great flash assembler for melding different elements together, and has some really nice text effects. Flax is simply a text effects engine, but features some of the nicest effects I've seen.

They're all very useful tools in one big flash toolbox, of which Flash is also an important part. Just my two cents...


12-01-2000, 02:12 AM
Flashhopper, come on I double dare you to enter the HOF #4 with a big made with Swish Logo. It would be great.

I agree with you that Swish and Kool Moves should not be compared but not for the reasons you give. Kool Moves is based on a completly diffrent aproach to animation. The interface in the two programs reflects that. It would seem that Kool Moves is more like Corel R.A.V.E, Live Motion, and Moho while Swish is more like Flash. To be honest Kool Moves is most like EVA Animator (EVA is an ultra compact file format that is more compresed than Flash. A 3 or 4 Minute animation in EVA weighs in at less than 300K while a SWF that length would weigh in at over a 2 MEGs. EVA was developed by Sharpe and unfortunatly you need a good Japanese MT to read the documentation on it. I have not been able to get the Trail version of EVA Animator to install corectly on a Machine without the Asian Pacific version of Windows.) which isn't even Flash Based.

PS. Have you tried the latest version of Kool Moves. The copy to file and insert movie clip functions rock!!

PPS. The only real difference between Swish and and Kool Moves is the interface and the fact that Swish has no native drawing tools and can't handle vectors graphics while Kool Moves can't directly import MP3 or Transform Bitmap Images. Swish 2.0 is supose to have vector support. Once Kool Moves is able to transform Bitmaps and once Swish is able to draw and animate shapes then there will be no real difference between Kool Moves and Swish 2.0 except the interface and the fact that Kool Moves auto morphs.

PPPS. Have you tried the new custom text effects with Kool Moves- Kinda takes the place of Flax. You can realy WYSWIG text effects with Kool Moves but Flax only partialy WYSWIGS. Try it you'll like it.

You're point still dosen't negate the fact that Flash Kit will not post our tutorials and I have heard simular complaints from Swish Flash Kit users. The problem isn't just contained to Kool Moves. It would seem that a large portion of Flash Kit is ANTI-NON Macromedia Flash (Anti Swish, Anti Kool Moves, Anti Live Motion, Anti Corel R.A.V.E, Anti Insane Flash Animator, and if most of them had a clue what PHP was they'd be Anti SWF LIB and Anti Ming) and it would seem that they are oposed to all 3'rd party tools.

I also want to point out that David Michie used to and to my knowledge runs a site called Open SWF. The site is a source for would be and potential developers who are trying to create 3'rd Party Flash tools. He advertises Flash Kit on his site (As he should) and Swish has Tutorials and a review. Plus I think Swish may have bought add space here. There use to be a link on the Flash Kit entry that advertised Swish. I don't think that is chance.

12-01-2000, 02:46 AM
Yet again Kool Moves is left out.

Todays FK Poll is what text effects engine do you use most.

Kool Moves Text effects interface was not even mentioned :(

David Michie
12-01-2000, 08:19 AM
We have never bought ad space at FlashKit.

12-01-2000, 11:20 AM
That's good to know.

12-01-2000, 11:38 AM
Oh Yeah.

Swish 2.0 looks pretty good. It may be worth looking at (To use with Kool Moves- David already said that the tool wouldn't be very suitable for Vector animation). I have never once said hey don't use Swish.

On another note:

Many Great third party tools have been neglected by Flash Kit;

Livemotion -who also has a board here has no reviews or tutorials.

Insane Flash Animator- Doesn't even have a Board here nor a review.

Morph Ink- No board No review.

Corel R.A.V.E- No board No review

Corel Xara- No Board No review

PHP SWF Libraries and/or Ming- If you want to count the Open SWF board as its board then go ahead. No Review and no badley needed tuts.

Flicker got a news board post. The beta is not out yet so I'm not sure if it will have a review.

Brad does have a valid point but I don't think they are just picking on Kool Moves.

12-01-2000, 12:33 PM
wow-lots of discussion-

Ok, NOW I HAVE a problem, I suggested the other day, that they should have a poll on what third party tool, that most flashers use. And what do they do, What text effect tool do you use the most? And they don't even include KoolMoves, sigh........
Come on FlashKit....


12-01-2000, 06:20 PM
Kool Moves gets the shaft once again. This time it was by Flash magazine. The URL is here: http://www.flashmagazine.com/flash4.htm

Click on programs to create SWF and You will find listed:

Live Motion
Swift PEG
Swift 3D
Illustrate 4
Vecta 3D
Wildform SWFX
And these Lamos don't even Know that Lost Marbles Tool is called "MOHO"

I'm telling you its a conspirency :)

12-01-2000, 11:19 PM
All I know is that when I get my site, all spiffed up I am going to submit it to cool sites, site check, etc. and tell them I made it in Flash, and then when they praise it, etc. I am going to say oops did I say flash, I meant a flash authoring tool-KoolMoves:)


12-02-2000, 02:05 PM

Brad, It would appear that Swish has come under from the greater Flash community. This brings up an interesting point on why Kool Moves has had errr... resistance in places like Flash Kit.

It seems to me that most Flash designers are in a habbit of how shall I say gouging their clients. $50-$120 is the going rate for a Flash designer. That is more than what a Doctor makes per hour!!

Why have Flash designers been able to charge that much? Simple there is a shortage of Flash Designers. Why? To put it bluntly there has in the past been a barier to the Flash designer market. Flash is an expensive program and it is very complex. That means to learn it typically you would have to go to some sort of design school or college to have access to the tools and training to Learn Flash (Not everyone has over $300 US to purchase Flash nor the discepline to learn how to code which is crucial if you are going to design in Flash). 3'rd party tools such as Swish and Kool Moves removes those bariers to designers. Both Kool Moves and Swish are afordable and and easy to learn meaning that most designers can enter the Flash market driving down the price that they can charge for services. That is why Kool Moves is not widely accepted. Kool Moves and other 3'rd party tools scares the Flash design community. I agree with some of the comments in the thread I posted that Macromedia is mostly scared of Corel and Adobe becuase they have more marketing power.

12-02-2000, 02:32 PM
I agree with you, I think though that it is just a matter of time, before KoolMoves is more recognized, the abilities of the program are vast, and it is developing at a fast rate. I remember when it first came out, I bought it, thinking another toy to play with, I wasn't expecting a product that could rival Flash. But it can and does. I think the only edge Flash really has, is the programs vast scripting abilities, once KoolMoves gets those, well look out.

One thing I think Bob should keep in mind, is to try and start developing an output with the SVG format, the more I investigate it the more I see that format as the future, and like the SWF format I believe that it will suddenly burst into the spotlight.

I think come 2.0 KoolMoves will be quite a competitor in the web scene.


12-02-2000, 03:13 PM

Someone who agrees with me on the SVG thing. I was starting to think I was crazy.

One thing about SVG. Macromedia Flash probably won't kill SVG directly. PHP with the Ming or SWF lib (Allows users to do pretty much what SVG does but with SWF commands directly put into the PHP) and Microsoft will with VML (VML was rejected as a canidate over SVG but Microsoft developed and implemented it anyway in IE 5.5). I just hope Sun, Adobe, Corel, and JASC can generate enough interest in SVG that it doesn't Die.

12-02-2000, 04:30 PM

Glad we are in agreement. I like SVG mainly for the greater control available. I think if JASC were to get going on there program Trajectory Pro then they could get some edge on others, and it would be nice to see a smaller company, get the edge on the big companies like MM and Adobe. Or if KoolMoves could output to SVG:) I don't think the format will die, it seems to be everywhere, you can search it out on any search engine, and find links galore.

I don't know not many people were into the SWF format when it came out, then suddenly boom, flash is everywhere on the web, its just a matter of time till the more flexible SVG format burst into the scene.

Though Johnie I haven't seen many examples of SVG format animations, can't actually remember if I even have, do you know of anywhere I could check out some.....


12-02-2000, 04:34 PM
I've posted Libraries before. I'll see if I can dig those links up.

The biggest example is BotBattles (US Version of Robot Wars).

12-02-2000, 04:39 PM
here is a start for SVG links:

And as far as SVG not going to be implemented- well it already sorta is-


Richard W
12-02-2000, 11:52 PM
How compact are SVG files compared to SWF files? Are SVG Files binary? Do they have less overhead for tweened frames than SWF files? Are they capable of tweening with 2D matrix transforms. How about 3D matrix transforms. What are their cool qualities?

12-03-2000, 11:28 AM
The specification of SVG can be found at the W3C Homepage.


In general the SVG allows more complex fills and stroks than the SWF format. Macromedia, Adobe, Sun, JASC, Corel, and others large companies dedicated a lot of time and money into the format.

The biggest drawback and advantage to SVG is that it is uncompiled code. What does this mean? It means that SVG can be written and altered without a compiler but it also means that it has no compresion (It can be zipped or rared though).

Support for SVG can be found in a few products.

Corel Rave and Corel Draw will export as SVG

Illustrator supports SVG export. Livemotion 2.0 will support SVG.

JASC Trajectory Pro uses SVG as its Native format

There is a SWF to SVG converter.

12-04-2000, 06:17 PM