PDA

Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : preloaders



Eddie Hillegers
01-17-2001, 08:40 PM
this is difficult would this be an apropiate subject?

IMHO PRELOADERS should become something of the past as quick as possible.

i'm open to reactions on this subject.

eddie

TiefighT
01-17-2001, 08:46 PM
Well, they don't bother me that bad ;),

What I don't like are the boring, numbers-only pre-loaders that take a good 2-5 minutes to finish on a regular modem. I think pre-loaders are still approprite if you give the user something interesting to do or watch in the mean time.

This could actually be one of the few good reasons for intros :). Make a compact intro that is designed to both promote the site the user is about to see, as well as give the computer time to load the main-site.

At least thats my $.02 :D

agent vivid
01-17-2001, 08:53 PM
an appetizer can be a great start to a wonderful meal... or it can fill you up too fast... or it can just plain stink and ruin everything... it's the same with preloaders...

i think they'll always be around... the good thing is... with broadband and some specific applications like cd-rom, corporate presentations, etc... preloaders don't have to exist in flash

Eddie Hillegers
01-17-2001, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by agent vivid
an appetizer can be a great start to a wonderful meal... or it can fill you up too fast... or it can just plain stink and ruin everything... it's the same with preloaders...

i think they'll always be around... the good thing is... with broadband and some specific applications like cd-rom, corporate presentations, etc... preloaders don't have to exist in flash

that's the problem i think, you only eat one appetizer.
if you serve the web for flash sites you get way to much
appetizers.

i'm trying to find a way to get rid of them


i finnished a site and the main interface is 29kb
but i had to leave a lot out to acomplish that.


eddie

Dawgbeat
01-17-2001, 09:04 PM
preloaders are a necessity in some cases, large Load movies are a biggy, i use preloaders to announce if a movie has loaded into a particular clip
ifloaded(_root.blah/frame#8657).
when that is loaded i have it display a certain message that is guided by an array and random values, the user is still able to work on the main movie and request that a movie is to load (while its loading the user can still work,read,etc.)


this idea was thought of while using digital cable and the ability to request a message when a certain show is on ;)

aa
01-17-2001, 09:48 PM
i agree.. i'd rather have my users sit through a few seconds of loading than risk having playback hiccup because they get snagged on a heavy frame, or try to use a variable that doesn't even exist yet.

happy
01-17-2001, 10:15 PM
I agree, nothing worse than watching a movie , only to have it pause and buffer.......

bandwidth will help, but the fact is that we just get greedy and make movies bigger than nes.............

jelve
01-17-2001, 11:23 PM
I think one of the things that puts people off of Flash more than anything else is waiting for a preloader. We'd all like to think that our sites are so great that once the viewer starts watching, they'll forget about the fact that they waited so long for it to load. From what I've seen, however, many people just click away before ever seeing the site after 20 seconds or more waiting.
I will be posting our new jelve.com site on Site Check within the next day or so. There's over 400kb plus a 1.5mb soundtrack and no preloader before it starts streaming for the 56k user. This hasn't been easy but, I think it will be worth the effort.

thatbillguy
01-18-2001, 01:30 AM
Jelve sounds like he's got the right idea. I'd be interested in seeing that site. Hillman Curtis said that a good preloader is one that the users don't realize is not part of the movie. That's pretty much what I'm aiming for. With the small movies I've done, I haven't really had a chance to see if this approach is practical.
-Bill

phooka
01-18-2001, 04:25 AM
The best way to make a preloader from my point of view is to make one that does NOT look like a preloader. Some people use games to keep people amused (I recently saw an Arkanoid type preloader that kept me happy for 5 minutes).

My approach in the redesign of my new personal site is to make it look like a videogame that is loading screens, sounds... If you've played Quake3Arena you'll recognize this pre-loading system:
http://www.phooka.net (excuse the nasty splash screen)

Giving more feedback to the surfer than a bar growing "breaks" boredom, making all the process more enjoyable. Preloading time is the same (maybe even longer) but it SEEMS shorter, and that is what counts! :)

Cool thread, EEEEHHHHH!
Regards

iCEBERG2000
01-18-2001, 05:38 AM
well I think preoloaders don't have to be big, they can be small with somthing repetitive but UNIQUE, also displaying the KB amount loaded.
A bad example of a preloader is kimble.org i htink..numbers counting down from 5 to 0 is not very unique I think (nrg. be creative!!)hehe

iCEBERG

Eddie Hillegers
01-18-2001, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by phooka
The best way to make a preloader from my point of view is to make one that does NOT look like a preloader. Some people use games to keep people amused (I recently saw an Arkanoid type preloader that kept me happy for 5 minutes).

My approach in the redesign of my new personal site is to make it look like a videogame that is loading screens, sounds... If you've played Quake3Arena you'll recognize this pre-loading system:
http://www.phooka.net (excuse the nasty splash screen)

Giving more feedback to the surfer than a bar growing "breaks" boredom, making all the process more enjoyable. Preloading time is the same (maybe even longer) but it SEEMS shorter, and that is what counts! :)

Cool thread, EEEEHHHHH!
Regards

eeeehhhhhhhh nice splashscreen phooka like the white in it:p




that's a good way of not using a preloader
it's just what i mean, i think we as a community trying
to promote flash, should make an effort to design more
ways to eliminate preloaders.
IMO people are getting more and more webwise, and they are over the wonder of flash.
that's what is probably clouding our opinion, we are hooked on flash so we tend to sit trough the worst preloaders/intro's in the hope we are going to see some magic.
but people who serve the web for fun are not that blind.
they know they have the power to ignore a site completly
like a movie, it may have cost millions but if the first
public says it's no good the movie will be ignored by the rest.
i'm afraid with al the preloaders people are going to ignore flash on the whole. unless we take action.



hope this makes sense.

cheers eddie

jelve
01-19-2001, 07:20 PM
Since I mentioned in an earlier reply in this thread that we were about to launch our 'hardly a preloader in sight' site soon, I thought I'd announce that it's up for the looking. See the Site Check thread. (http://board.flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=88606)

FlashGuru
01-19-2001, 09:21 PM
Preloaders are the best thing since sliced bread!

Imagine trying to view a flash .swf file without a preoloader, symbols appearing as they load, sound stopping and starting!

If you make an eye-ctaching, innovative preloader people will wait!

Eddie Hillegers
01-20-2001, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by FlashGuru
Preloaders are the best thing since sliced bread!

Imagine trying to view a flash .swf file without a preoloader, symbols appearing as they load, sound stopping and starting!

If you make an eye-ctaching, innovative preloader people will wait!

i'm afraid your wrong.
this is a common remark i get from friends that do sitechecks for me.

yes ed i will check your site as long as it isn't flash.
(they are on a lan connection)

my girlfriend skips every site that has a preloader in it that takes longer than 10 seconds.

if you create a good fla you don't need a preloader.
it's difficult but it's possible and with it i avoid people
skipping the site

and last but not least, no people won't wait even if it's nice they will just skip the site.

cheers eddie

[Edited by Eddie Hillegers on 01-20-2001 at 09:13 AM]

FlashGuru
01-20-2001, 10:23 AM
sorry i forgot you do all the research and that your friends speak for everyone, people will wait and it is proven!

Yugop has a preoloader right?!?praystation has a preoloader right?!? ummm...

Eddie Hillegers
01-20-2001, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by FlashGuru
sorry i forgot you do all the research and that your friends speak for everyone, people will wait and it is proven!

Yugop has a preoloader right?!?praystation has a preoloader right?!? ummm...

no i don't that's why i have to fall back on friends
and they are the end users that don't have profesional intrest in the internet.those are the people you should be making sites for.
forget about research, go to a pub, talk with people,
you might be surprised with what they have to say.

Cheers eddie.

p.s. if yugop or praystation jump in the water would you?

FlashGuru
01-20-2001, 10:41 AM
thats wrong also, if im making a site for a pub then i will talk to people in the pub, if im making a site for graphic designers then i will talk to graphic designers, all of which have different likes and dislikes!

Target Audience

Praystation and yugop mean nothing to me and no i wouldnt jump in after them, this is besides the point.

the fact is you cant accept that we all have different opinions!

Think about it

Eddie Hillegers
01-20-2001, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by FlashGuru
thats wrong also, if im making a site for a pub then i will talk to people in the pub, if im making a site for graphic designers then i will talk to graphic designers, all of which have different likes and dislikes!

Target Audience

Praystation and yugop mean nothing to me and no i wouldnt jump in after them, this is besides the point.

the fact is you cant accept that we all have different opinions!

Think about it

started the day wrong??

i do believe that your talking to yourself about accepting
other opinions and there is no need to attack mine.

target audience are the people in the pub in most cases.
and i do not see verry much difference in the preloaders
used for different target audience

why do you start involving praystation if it's besides the point.


this thread is about finding and discussing different ways to aproach preloaders and make them obsolete.

And i do use preloaders in my sites but i want to find ways
to avoid them.

cheers eddie

FlashGuru
01-20-2001, 11:28 AM
i am not attacking you, there is a difference between spreading my opinion and attacking you, i involved praystation because that is one of the sites that many users on this site visit!


How do you figure that the target audience is the people in the pub?!? you must have differnet clients to most of us then!

If you dont want to hear other peoples opinions dont make a thread telling us that preoloaders shoudl be made obsolete as i and many other strongly disagree!

Eddie Hillegers
01-20-2001, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by FlashGuru
i am not attacking you, there is a difference between spreading my opinion and attacking you, i involved praystation because that is one of the sites that many users on this site visit!


How do you figure that the target audience is the people in the pub?!? you must have differnet clients to most of us then!

If you dont want to hear other peoples opinions dont make a thread telling us that preoloaders shoudl be made obsolete as i and many other strongly disagree!



ok well we are straight on not atacking each other than.
people in the pub is a figure of speach.and stands for
almost everybody . even me and i don't drink.

i'm trying to give arguments as in why i think preloaders
have an opposite affect. one of them is the stuff i hear
on the street (pub) and it's not all in favorite of flash.

my clients are indeed small shops in town (amsterdam)
and i'm having a hard time selling them a flash site
becuase of the overall opinon about it.
that's also the reason why i would like to find ways
to avoid preloaders. becuase then i can convince my clients
that it is well worth for them to have a flashbased site
created.


cheers eddie.

took a while but it's sometimes difficult to say it in english.

cobweb
01-21-2001, 07:42 PM
A preloader does not deem worthy if you are preloading a 350k file and the preloader is just an animation that loops for 2 min till the file loads! There are far too many of these on the web (these are the bad ones that hurt Flash design). If it incorporates a percentage then it's serves the purpose. That way (as we all know) the surfer has some reference of time needed to wait on this file, then they are able to make a judgement call if they should stay or leave. Those are the good preloaders, IMO.

FlashGuru
01-21-2001, 09:15 PM
Yes a good preoloader is one that leads the viewer to belive that the site is not preloading, ie.. the preloading occurs while the rest of your movie plays!

Seamless preloading is a good technique and one which is easy to grasp!

phooka
01-22-2001, 05:30 AM
One of the best ways I've seen preloading work refers to sites where pics and main contents are read first (150 kbs do not take long) while music starts a bit later. Is this preloading?: you "preload" the main site giving the user the opportunity to start navigation. And one minute later, a fade in introduces the music once it has been loaded.

Of course, a streaming option seems more reasonable, but I seem to have more control if the whole mp3 has been loaded at once.

I aggree with Guy: it is not important the number of kbs, what is important is that the user is not there waiting to start. If the user is oblivious to the fact that more kbs are being added into a pop-up window, that is a perfect preloader (IMHO)...

Maybe the problem is that we've understood the word "pre-loader" as the typical "Now loading" sentence and the loading bar. In my new site, for example, there are 5 or 6 preloaders, but none of them look like the traditional one! :D

Regards,
David

a_slosh
01-23-2001, 03:01 AM
I totally agree with you Eddie.

Flash was meant to be used for streaming multimedia (ie no preloaders). Having preloaders defeats the whole point.

I recommend that people read an excellent tutorial on Flashkit:

http://www.flashkit.com/cgi-bin/tutorials/jump.cgi?ID=555

This is how Flash should be used. Well done to the author.

Eddie Hillegers
01-23-2001, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by a_slosh
I totally agree with you Eddie.

Flash was meant to be used for streaming multimedia (ie no preloaders). Having preloaders defeats the whole point.

I recommend that people read an excellent tutorial on Flashkit:

http://www.flashkit.com/cgi-bin/tutorials/jump.cgi?ID=555

This is how Flash should be used. Well done to the author.

cheers a_slosh sometimes somebody else can say in one sentence what i have been trying to say all along.

i made a site for a kite org. the main inteface is
29 kb it streams well on a 14.4k modem, there is a preloader in there but you will never see it unless
your connection has got hickups, even than it wil only
be the size of one html page you have to wait for.
http://www.webnl.com/kitefestival

In all my talks with people there is realy only one thing
that comes out, and that's the long waiting time in flashmovie's before you even get to an navbar/interface.

ok i'm off to read the tutorial.

cheers ed