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01-27-2001, 07:54 AM
Anybody suggest any interesting streaming sites, or any periodic/zine-type or narrowcasting sites they've come across done in all-Flash? To me, it seems an interesting area not yet developed. Some of the points raised in the "pre-loaders - I don't think so" thread relate to this. IMHU, the problem with the "look what I can do" demos that you see so much of, no matter how good they are, is that they really have nothing to do with stickiness and content freshness, which, from a commercial standpoint, are the most important factors to develop in a site, aside from the obvious considerations relating to functionality and ease of use. Whaddayathinx?

01-27-2001, 10:05 AM
I don't have any URLs to add to the discussion but, onething that I think can make a site sticky is up to date dynamic content.
We're working on a site right now that will have two or three news feeds from moreover.com. Our contract is not for a Flash site on this one but, moreover does have a Flash feed. As well, anyone who's using XML can adapt all of the moreover stuff to Flash.
As you correctly point out, designer portfolio sites are not the type of place that generate a huge amount of return traffic. I don't think that they are really intended for that purpose, though.

Flash Kit, itself, is one of the stickiest sites on the web. However, it's not Flash either. The discussion board model does carry over into a Flashable site, as long as the traffic is not too high. The limit? I don't know.

BTW, this is a good topic. Cheers for bringing it up.

01-27-2001, 03:10 PM
The point raised about designer sites not really intended to be the sticky "come back daily" type is a valid one, absolutely, and I don't want to piss anybody off or minimize the creative genius (and hours, hours, and more hours) behind all the "I'm cool" site intros/demos - alot of which really are cool! But my thinking goes something like this: granted, the "I'm cool" intro does demonstrate to, say, prospective commercial clients what you can do, or what can be done, in Flash - but, everyone agrees that this has nothing to do with stickiness (because almost by definition it's static) and further, even worse, anything with a preloader will get zapped... therefore, how can you really interest commercial decision-makers (who, by the way, probably know nothing/care nothing about graphics) with the amazing potential of Flash by creating for their perusal examples of exactly what they DON'T want for their own site?
It's always a good thing, in any technical field such as content creation for the web, to keep in mind that there is often a huge reality disconnect between those of us "in the business", so to speak, and the great multitudes who really count, commercially speaking. Let's face it, the only reason any of us wait through preloaders is that we are Flashers and so we want to see what's coming. In the "real world", research has shown time and again that any static wait longer than 3 or 4 seconds gets zapped, period, boom, as in, I'm outta here. As time and internet progress, broadband will give more leeway, but I think it's going to be a while yet before 56k considerations can be forgotten.

01-27-2001, 03:55 PM

they are a flash based board.
not many people do this kind of dynamic full flash type sites, mainly i think, because its not well documented, and not the easiest thing to do.

if it was easy, large content based flash sites would be as common as a pixel gif

01-27-2001, 07:04 PM

Stuff magazine recently launched an all-Flash site, http://www.stuff-mag.com. i never see a preloader, but i will say that maybe they should :). the sections load slow on my connection, and some of the pictures either load slow or don't load at all. preloaders aren't bad when used correctly, and i think this site could use some.

01-28-2001, 12:21 PM
this site streams audio:

01-28-2001, 12:42 PM

A cool looking zine with plenty of features - windows media, Flash, discussion board, interviews. It doesn't really stream, at all, for the 56k users but it tries. I think it would be very nice on DSL. Mmmmmmm...DSL. Maybe someday it will be available here in the hinterland. :D

01-29-2001, 10:41 AM
Aloha from Honolulu,
Thanks for some great suggestions... though I'm always looking for more... That STUFF site is cool. On my 56k machine, it was great, very responsive. Of course, there will always be traffic, server, and reach issues, but the balance they strike between content/design/nested-movie sizes is, to me, really good. I'm working on (gonna be a while yet) a Flash "zine" concept that takes a sort of "from Hawaii to you guys on the mainland" sort of approach... the key, as I see it, will be to create on an ongoing basis something "sticky", so it will have to be FRESH. Ideally, I'm thinking "fresh" on a regular (periodic) basis, daily of course would be best, but realistically weekly is probably going to have to be the reality... The whole concept makes no sense at all, of course, unless there is stuff on the site that not only attracts them back, but also sparks a hey-check-this-out P-to-P snowball effect, as far as building site traffic.
This may just be my own personal cyber-trip, but it seems to me that sites such as that STUFF site are the way of the future - at least to some extent. The whole experience is so much cooler than your typical HTML site, and it makes alot of sense bandwidth-wise to utilize vector graphics. Modern HTML with CSS, etc., is amazingly efficient for the basic site structure, but all the JPEGs and even GIFs are a bottleneck. On a fundamental and technical level, all-vector clearly makes more sense - which IMHU is a major point overlooked by the Jakob Nielsen school. Even stuff like art images, and even photos, once they're posterized-8bitted-traced can produce all kinds of cool visual possibilies, more versatile than JPEG.
The one overriding factor you hear against all-Flash sites it the search-engine placement issue... the bots are looking for HTML. But, again in my HU, the search-engines and bots are already totally discredited by their "here's fifty things that I WASN'T looking for" effect. More advanced Google-type engines are clearly the wave of the future, and anyway mouth-to-mouth is always going to rule. Napster had 10 million users before a bot even noticed it.
Anyway, this is a tangent that I am personally sort of veering off into (as you can tell) and I'm interested in hearing other peoples' views/experiences. P.S. If a post like this is too long, sorry, somebody let me know. I'm new to this board and don't really know the feel of it yet.