When Clients Don't Pay...

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10-08-2002, 02:21 PM
nickrowntree

When Clients Don't Pay...

I'm sure this has happened to most people at some point or another but I want to know what I can do about it.

I did a small piece of work for a client and a figure of 500 pounds sterling was agreed for the cost. I did the work on time and to the satisfaction of the client however he has yet to pay. Perhaps I was naive but the client in this instance was someone I new so nothing formal was ever drawn up (although I do have email correspondence between the two of us, including the one which agreed the cost). He initially came up with excuses such as cash flow problems etc and promised the cheque would be on its way the next month etc but it is now clear he is not going to pay up.

So, what can I do? Small claims court? Anyone know how this system works? What if I threaten him with some sort of action and he turns around and says that he won't use this piece of work on his site anymore, can I still force him to pay up?

It's not a huge sum of money so I don't want to have to do anything which is going to cost me big time.

Any advice from anyone who has been through this gratefully received!

Perhaps I'll just have to go pay him a visit with the boys...
10-08-2002, 02:35 PM
gSOLO_01

I believe this post belongs in the board room...

no contract... 500 of whatever is a lot. unless the person is a close friend or family member you should have a contract. having a contract for everyone is a better bet. even if it's only a couple of lines and a signature.

i'm guessing he explicitly agreed to pay x amount of dollars in the email?? print out the emails and what not, tell the person what your going to do, and if a couple of days go by and still no payment take'm to court.
10-08-2002, 02:49 PM
nickrowntree

Quote:

Originally posted by gSOLO_01
I believe this post belongs in the board room...

Sorry 'bout that! You're probably right.

Quote:

I'm guessing he explicitly agreed to pay x amount of dollars in the email?? print out the emails and what not, tell the person what your going to do, and if a couple of days go by and still no payment take'm to court.

Yes - I've got an email from him stating he will pay me 500 pounds upon completion. He was a 'friend' not a close one admittedly but I thought I could trust him.

How exactly do you go about 'taking someone to court' (in the UK that is)?
10-08-2002, 03:35 PM
I_am_Tarzan

Better go see a lawyer (probably spelled wrong)
And watch out you dont get an reputation of "All he does is suing(taking to court) his clients" ...
10-08-2002, 03:49 PM
gSOLO_01

Quote:

Originally posted by nickrowntree
How exactly do you go about 'taking someone to court' (in the UK that is)?

i'd check witha a lawyer. can't help you there...
10-08-2002, 04:27 PM
FFF

Before running to the lawyer, give him one more chance to pay and set a deadline for let's say 5 days from the time of that email. Forward him his email where he accepts your offer and then say in a very light manner, that you will be forced to take him to court if he doesn't pay. Double check that he does receive your emails and that he is not in holiday somewhere. If nothing works, you should go to a lawyer.

I suggest dropping by Scott's great site, it can teach you a good few things about how to deal with clients.

This is his website: www.scottmanning.com
10-08-2002, 05:09 PM
asheep_uk

£500 is about 7 weeks food.

:)

Think about it.

TE
10-08-2002, 05:32 PM
Mac8myPC

Hang on a sec...

I hate to disagree with you all... but lets just take a step back and look at the situation b4 we turn a friendship into a bloodbath.

you say this person is your friend, and you didn't make a contract.. but you have an email lining out and agreeing for payment.. okay... send him a friendly reminder via email every couple of weeks until he can pay you.. or work out some kind of payment schedule that meets his budget and have him sign to it....don't hound him or nag him about it and when you are with him socially, don't even talk about it unless he brings it up... why?? you ask??

life lesson #42.. never burn your bridges - taking your friend to court will destroy your friendship and ruin any future professional relationship you could have with this person.. if you give him some time to come up with the cash.. or maybe even take payments from him for a couple of months it would be much better than loosing a friend over a few hundred clams that a month from now you'd never think about again.

my second point.. if he can't afford the webiste, what makes you think he's going to be able to afford to pay after the court rules he should.. not to mention court costs, lawyer fees, by the time it's over you'll have spent around 200-300 pounds just to get your ruling and you will never see the money anyways....

should you have made a contract? yes... always have a contract!

should he pay you? duh.. of course he should.

take your lumps and keep your friend, trust me.. friends are worth more than $500 IMO

BUT!! if for some reason you don't think he'd pay you even if he had the money.... then he wasn't your friend to begin with and you should take his arse to court ;)
10-09-2002, 06:16 AM
mentuat

ya I agree with mac8mypc, besides, before you take someone to small claims court you will be expected to have :

Quote:

... send him a friendly reminder via email every couple of weeks until he can pay you.. or work out some kind of payment schedule that meets his budget and have him sign to it

friendly reminders in the form of registered post though.

and like someone said above also, a county court judgement can't actually make you to pay if you really don't want to, and when you look into it all you'll probably find it's just not worth the whole process - as anyone trying to get their deposit off a dodgy landlord will probably tell you...
10-09-2002, 08:52 AM
RazoRmedia

if he is someone you know, an acquataince, turn up at his / hers place of work and ask for payment. If he refuses go back the next day and ask again.

Sooner or later, you will turn up when he's with a client and he will be very determined to get rid of you before you open your mouth.

Take your money and go the pub.

Remember to always protect your work !!! (flash security, watermarks etc)

Failing this, break his legs ;)
10-09-2002, 10:09 AM
JabezStone

As a LAST RESORT...
After all friendly options have failed, simply call a lawyer friend (or find a lawyer that will take $20 for it) and have them write a nice, short letter to your client requesting payment. The letterhead alone will prompt them to get their pen out and write a check.

I have had to use this option only once, and it worked quite well. The client sent payment, along with a letter of apology, and we patched things up.
10-09-2002, 11:47 AM
nickrowntree

A Big THANKS to everyone for their advice.

He is not a friend any more (this incident has made me see his true colours) so I don't have too many worries about burning bridges - I wouldn't work for him again whatever the situation.

It's certainly not a case of him not being able to afford it (he has been spinning me a line about cash-flow) he is lording it up with his SLK and nice London flats - trust me his site is making him a LOT of money.

I'll go down the route of some 'friendly' reminders about the payment and if these don't succeed I'll investigate the small claims court route further, but at least then if it comes to that it will look like I have been reasonable about the whole situation.

Thanks again for all the advice.
10-09-2002, 11:55 AM
Mac8myPC

bummer dude :(

you should round up some of your friends and go break his legs :mrpimp:

and just as an after thought, friends or no friends.. require a downpayment (i do 50% down to start).. that way if they take you in the end.. you've still got some cash to console yourself with ;)
10-12-2002, 08:46 PM
Gloomycus

Doesn't a verbal agreement constitute a contract?
10-13-2002, 01:09 AM
Sysdomatic

Sometimes there is a point where the niceness has to turn into some nastiness if you want to get paid. Companies send out crappy letters all the time if people don't pay them, why can't we do the same. I'd let him know that while you can't force him to pay you, the negative word of mouth you'll spread will far outweigh any money saved by not paying you. If you just write it off as a loss, he'll try to pull this BS again in the future on someone else. I'd send him an e-mail asking for at least partial payment as a sign of good faith, no matter how small it is. Some clients will try to get away with anything if you let them.
10-13-2002, 12:00 PM
vampstko

Quote:

Originally posted by Gloomycus
Doesn't a verbal agreement constitute a contract?

not in a court of law that becomes he said she said BS.

before anyjob is started always have some form of contract created and signed by the customer and always request some form of down payment.. most things i only take $100 down. if they refuse either. they are more then likely out to scam you ..
10-14-2002, 04:43 AM
OddDog

i do not think that your emails will have any wait in court.

but thats beside the point. Do not let it go that far. Talk to the guy. Explain that the work was done professionally on time, in budget, and to the clients liking. You expect to be trated professionally, that means being paid. At this point offer a series of posibilities, from a slight discount for immediate payment, through to a payment scheduale. Be seen by the client to be flexible but determined to be paid.

forget going to court. money does not recompense the anguish of that experience, i am talking with experience on this one. kept the friend. COMMUNICATE.
10-14-2002, 01:02 PM
LuxFX

Quote:

Originally posted by JabezStone
As a LAST RESORT...
After all friendly options have failed, simply call a lawyer friend (or find a lawyer that will take $20 for it) and have them write a nice, short letter to your client requesting payment. The letterhead alone will prompt them to get their pen out and write a check.

Excellent advice.

A trick my father-in-law uses if you've got a fax machine, and they have a fax number, is print out five or six invoices and tape the ends together in a big loop and fax it to them one Friday night. Since the invoices are in a loop through the fax machine, it runs forever and they get in Monday morning with an office full of your invoices -- this works best if they have an 800 number so it costs them too. Even if they still don't pay up, you're bound to feel better about it :D

-LuxFX
10-14-2002, 07:09 PM
Musicman

Would it be acceptable to name the bad client here, so that nobody else gets bitten? Sort of a "hall of shame" thread ...

Musicman
10-14-2002, 08:39 PM
TianaKaeSha

*evil giggle* strap 'em in the gallows!!

I think the 'using a lawyers letter head' idea is a great idea...

get him sweating a little bit...

but first try the friendly reminders... the fax machine idea is great - but you may just annoy him that little bit more