[Disc] Using Flash for "epic" games

Right now Flash is used mainly for small games that someone can play and finish in their browser in a short period of time. But is flash capable of making a full-length, really imersive gaming experience? By that, I mean going beyond the browser, beyond all of the "coffee break" games and making something that rivals games that you might buy at a store.

Despite 3D being all the rage, lots of people are still willing to buy 2D games. And even more people play old emulated games in their spare time.

The main reason I ask is because so many of us do little things that can be sold to websites. It seems like flash development is limited to remaking old classics or these little coffee break games.

I was always told, "Go big or go home." If I can't go big with flash, then I need to move on to something else.

If your willing to put the time in sure.
Is it recommended for what your talking about? not really.

Well, most flash games are for playing in the "cofee break" but why not? it is possible. Some time ago I made games that weren't made to play on the web, they were like to spend more time on playing them but those games don't really encourage people to keep playing, unless they have the quality that those out in stores have. Also if you are willing to make one of those, you must have everything planned from the beginning and it would be better to work with a group because many times you can just quit making a game.

Well, the real strength of Flash is exactly at being small and being able to play in the browser. For any kind of standalone game you need other program to wrap Flash content into exe and you most likely run into speed issues, saving problems and other stuff Im not familiar with because I havent done standalone games.

If you really want to invest lots of time and money into standalone game then you might want to use Director or some other program which is good at it.

Here is very good reading "What About Flash? Can We Really Make Games With It?"
http://www.drizzle.com/~scottb/gdc/flash-paper.htm

All of our games are "coffee break" games but are designed to be stand-alone. So we go "beyond the browser" as you mentioned in your post. Making Flash run outside of the browser has it's own tricks and problems but it isn't particularly hard. We have had great luck with Zinc from MDN and use it on all of our games. We've used several competitors to Zinc before and simply had more problems overall.

Do I think Flash is capable of making a large game with depth? Yup, but the effort involved is extreme and the advantages of Flash as a platform become minor once you start taking about a project of that size.

Alien Hominid managed to make the leap from Flash gaming to console gaming, so it's not completely unthinkable.

as others said you can of course create 'bigger' games with flash,you could actually create any 2d game type with f7. some are less feasable,mostly games which depend on many objects moving on screen at once and also several objects guided by pathfinding,so for example rts games.even that could change with f8 though,but well,we´ll see.
So,generally,you could of course create adventure or rpg games,just to name two genres perfectly suiting the term epic.
if you have a strong enough team with the needed experience/talent which you can either finance working for a bout a year (or longer) on one single game or find and equally good team which works for free for such a long while,you could probably make it.
you should just attempt what you and your team can create in a timescale which is ok for you,no need to attempt to create the biggest game and then quit working on it after 3 months.

In other words, let's make a Flash Kit RPG together!

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Originally Posted by VENGEANCE MX

Alien Hominid managed to make the leap from Flash gaming to console gaming, so it's not completely unthinkable.

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The flash version was a one level game with nice graphics and some fancy actionscript. The console versions weren't programmed with flash, but with the sdk's provided by the companies that make the consoles.

Flash Games Can be turned into larger multiuse games. Its code is easy to use, and the visual interface can make things extremely or sometimes extemely difficult. Action scripting is similar to other languages, so if you are a new programmer, it can be a nice start.

It takes a lot of time and coding,( like any majour game) to get it to that stage.

It does have graphical limitations which can be a massive pain, but with proper features, more higher end systems being used, and the ever so popular ways of limiteng graphics movement, it can lead to some nice game.

I am currently working on a game similar to that of a starcraft style. I currently have a small engine, with basic unit controls and scripting. However as I do not have too much time too invest into games and that it is flash, it would not go to a commercial quality. I could go big with some of the games I have written, but flash can only take things so far.

My other game / Main Game has been online for close to two years, which I only program as a hobby, and it still has users coming back over and over to play it, even though I do not advertise or promote it.

One of the issues I have that holds me back from writing massive games is decomiling and game theft. Sure you can use some methods to hide your work, and you can copyright it, but how could anyone without a corporate backing go into a lawsuit over code / game theft?

Epic games...
Like this?
http://www.sylvaniah.com/sylvaniah.html

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Originally Posted by kyled

One of the issues I have that holds me back from writing massive games is decomiling and game theft. Sure you can use some methods to hide your work, and you can copyright it, but how could anyone without a corporate backing go into a lawsuit over code / game theft?

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I think the massivness itself is good protection. Anyone can take 1 of your functions out from the game, but if the game has thousands of lines of code then decompiling it (and making it work again) becomes so much trouble that it is easier to steal only idea and rewrite the code. Thats how most commercial games are made.

Also if you mean "game theft" in Minijuegos style, where you grab swf, remove some lines about url check and host it in your own site with ads then it works very well for 100k game files. But if your game comes in 3 DVDs then strange sites suddenly dont want to host it anymore. Sure, if the game is good then some sort of game theft will continue, even major companies havent got completely rid of it, but it wont be large scale. It is much easier to close down 1 site then 1000.

Making massive game even prevents the thieves and their hosts to hide behind "how do you prove this is stolen game" argument. Some site providing free download of Sims2 or Half Life saying he made it wont sound as believable as same kind of claims about "click on the red square game".

I still haven't seen any game made in flash of such epic proportions as Promqueen, which I and five others have been developing for a year, targeting the offline market. Since we were doing mostly turnbased game mechanics and made good use of flash's animation-friendly "stuff", flash came to good use. The game is however also stuffed into a wrapper to give it functionality beyond what flash can provide today.
So hell yeah. But it really depends on the kind of game your doing.

What I really appreciate flash for is it's user-friendliness and it's easy start for beginners. No other language, that I know of (but I don't know many), would give you the ability to make "your first game" in such a short period of learning.

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Originally Posted by chuckury

The flash version was a one level game with nice graphics and some fancy actionscript. The console versions weren't programmed with flash, but with the sdk's provided by the companies that make the consoles.

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Yes, but the original was still made in Flash, and if someone makes a console version of a Flash game, then it's definitely epic.

This kind of reminds me of my topic I posted a bit ago.

Personally, I think an epic game can be programmed in Flash. I plan on slowly creating an SRPG engine in my spare time (which is currently about 1 hour every month :p ) Whether or not it will be money making is another matter all together.

HOWEVER, if you are looking to "Go big or go home." You might want to look at another type of programming language. The bigger you get in Flash, the more potential problems you will run into...

(Or wait for 8-ball) :smoov: