What is FLASH STANDARD navigation?

Since this wonderful new boardroom section appeared I've seen the concept "Standard Navigation" used a few times.

If I am not mistaken, purists understand standard navigation as the tandem browser navigation/hyperlinking. From this traditional POV, there is NOT a flash "standard" navigation.

- If there is, what is it? The use of the default Macromedia buttons?

- Furthermore: does "standard" means better? IMHO, standard navigation is less natural or intuitive to the user than the navigation that can be achieved by using flash in a coherent manner... :)

Which are your thoughts, you fine cool people out there? ;)

Regards,

Well, in my opinion, the issue that should be stressed is: internal standardisation within your website. When an interface has been decided on, the buttons shouldn't flitter around the place.

And in reguards to being intuative. I feel intuative things are those things that, through familuarity, are clear in there function, for instance the concept of the 'trash/recycle bin' on a computer. Suggestion: Don't use 3 identical spherical gradients for your interface buttons and hope people will 'figure it out'. (Yes I've seen some terrible flash)

But, as far as utalising the browsers abilities (Foward/back buttons etc..) The sooner Microsoft give Macromedia Internet Exporer, the better. Personally I am sick of the web not being an emersive multimedia enviroment. :)

standard flash nav in my opinion is a column on the left side of the browser window, very similar to 'standard navigation'. I think navigation depends on the use of a site. For something informative, a standard navbar should be used, people are used to the standard so why not change this in flash? They can understand it more easily and quicker because they have seen the 'same kind of thing' before. I think creative sites (www.Yugop.com is a prime example) can basically do what they like. The naviagtion here is simply radio buttons. Plain, simple yet innovative and effective.

oh, and check out http://www.juxtinteractive.com

:)

I'd have to agree with you here Phooka,

Through years of painful experience i've found it'd not always best practive to rely in any way on a users understanding of even the most basic browser toolbars.

I try and make each and every site as self explanatory as possible, also ensuring the entire thing can be browsed freely without ever having to touch the browser bar. In this way, yuo're not relying on any intuition on behalf of the user and have full control over how they move within the site.

I like this forum already:)

ij

Hi......
I think when people use the term "standard navigation" they're referring to non-Flash navigation...and probably rightfully so....seeing as the majority of the world wide web is not Flash.So whether by design, or it just happened over time, a standard was established.....and in more things than just navigation.

So I think, when you're designing a site(I'm talking commercial,here.) how closely you stick to the "standards" is dictated first by your client and by the type of user of the site.

However, if you're designing for yourself or as an experimental art site, or whatever.......I think the only limitation should be your own imagination......

I saw this the other day on FlashKit(wish I could remember where). It said "Don't Flash for Flash's sake"......I totally disagree! I think Flash in and of itself, is a great Art medium.......and when it comes to Art, standards go out the window!

Just my opinion.......of course.

-pigghost-

IMHO, there is no point in calling HTML-styled navigation the "standard" as barely 1 in 8 people even can connect to the web, the majority of those browse only about 5 unique pages a week, and the format is a few years old at best. So, the race for convention is on!
Flashers are in a unique position to create new standards (thank you Macromedia) subject only to creativity and a reasonably understandable interface. Whereas frames were a big jump in hypertext, and javascript gave designers click-able buttons, flash allows scripts to be placed all over.
MTV2.co.uk is a great example of interactivity, effective communication, and "stickiness", and tho I do NOT try to copy their work, I admire the risk.
Sometimes risks pay off.
I suggest all flashers actively pursue both imitating the current style (to ease adoption of the medium) and totally disregarding them. Ultimately it's going to become VR, right?
Which is why I use flash in the first place.

While I feel you guys are right and there is no specific standard Navigation, it doesn't take much to realise that users are becoming used to seeing navigation placed on the Left side, or across the top under a logo or such like.

The best rule is build a navigation that is standard for your Audience. If your Audience is - lets say they are Audi Owners....then you could build a naviagtion that used the common components of an Audi Dashboard. Now this would work because 95 to 99% of your audience drives an Audi everyday, but it would be very confusing to others. So build something that is going to work for your audience....and keep it the same across ALL pages of your site.

There are however a few new rules that seem to be associated with Web Usability.

One of these I addressed with my Improved Mouse Cursor trick. That is users are used to finding a hyperlink being re-inforced because the mouse cursor changes to a hand. This beyond anything else is the NUMBER ONE factor that tells a user that what they are over is a HOTSPOT. Now in flash when we go about changing cusors and such like we run the risk of confusing users. SO you have to build for that.

Users also expect a Link/hotspot to change (although this s not true of an image map). Right back in the early days links changed colour on mouse over, and this was picked up on in the early days of Java with the Roll Over images. This allows the user to realise that this item they are over is special. You need to build buttons that have an OVER state so the user can associate button with it. Take a look at the buttons in IE5.5 they are grey...but mouse over them and they look 3D and in colour.

Anybody from a Newbie to and old hand will tell you that on 99% of all computer programs the MAIN navigation is across the top, FILE then EDIT etc etc....this is ingrained. If you want to build a navigation that you feel is standard they build around what is common to the everyday computer users. Look at what is standard across Mac, Windows, Office and Adobe.

When car designs design there is no STANDARD dashboard layout book...but yet you take a look and the cars around the world are laied out in very similar fashion.

But yah...this is my 2 cents worth....and not at all why I came here right now...opps :)

Quote:

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Originally posted by pigghost

I saw this the other day on FlashKit(wish I could remember where). It said "Don't Flash for Flash's sake"......I totally disagree! I think Flash in and of itself, is a great Art medium.......and when it comes to Art, standards go out the window!

---

Hey there...

Yeah I said this....and I think you've taken it out of context. I agree with what your saying. Flash allows us to bend the rules...hell we can box them up and kick them out the 33rd floor window....but before you do that you have to understand what makes up a good solid navigation. Many (and I mean MANY) of the sites that I see and test every day just use flash to do what HTML and JavaScript do better. This is why I said Don't use Flash just because you can.

I was trying to encourage people that when they put the effort into designing a great artistic web site in Flash they should really build in a tight professional Flash Nav. That would be great.

Sure go ahead and use flash...but make sure you USE it. I draw the comparison...it's like using a water blaster to was your hands....if your going to use a water blaster then you'd clean something worth while....that's my thinking with Flash.

But yah...that's me :)

Hi,
Interseting thoughts. I was with one of my clients this afternoon watching him as he was trying to show me some things on the Internet. I was amazed to watch as he searched for things to click on on various different pages and sites (quite funny actually). I was witnessing sites fail because he just could not work out how to address their navigation systems. While trying not to seem out of place I had to point out a few places that he just couldn't grasp, even though it seemed pretty obvious to me. I guess we have to remeber that many of our users are not that web savvy (I'm suprised some of them can start their computers to be honest!!) but this is OUR problem.
It hit me that I need to develop my own standards in Navigation and Quality Control. This means useability tests, research into target markets and try and get more of a look through their eyes into what really works and what doesn't.

I often watch my girlfriend (from the general niagra falls area) spend 10-20 seconds running her mouse around the page to find links that I see instantly. (She also sees 600kbps downstream on earthlink dsl, darn her cute self, but that's another story.)
The point is: designing for the "average" user is pretty simple, use html or javascript with the standard colors, etc. This is where Virtuoso and others are right on the money: The Target Audience Is King. And no-one wins if the viewer can't figure the interface out. HOWEVER!
As stated above, that is what HTML is for. We are Flash DEVELOPERS. Recreating HTML interfaces is a useful but academic study. The "standard" song sounds like N'Sync, but one should be ashamed to copy them just because they're the "standard". Standards change. Flash will change them. Be creative when not constrained by the above user expectations. It's way too early (IMHO) to call even the Winblows "file" menu system a standard, as a great many people use other OS's. SO!
I don't respect N'sync for their standardness, do you?
Awfully opinionated for a new member, eh?
Be well.

http://www.geocities.com/chucklesgbp/phooka.jpg

You know it's a great topic when it looks like every post has been made by mg33!!!

Here's my 2 cents:

Flash doesn't have a standard navigation. There are sites with everything from the odd scattered navigation of my site to the clean crisp navigation at Grafika to the just odd (but definately cool) at DerBauer to the different nav at Zymo Creations. All of the above sites (besides mine) are awesome! But the nav is so different, yet very very effective! When I'm at my parent's house I try to slow down how fast I move around while my dad is watching me, but he still tells me I'm fast! I know where to look - when to look. My dad will take hours finding a part of a site when I can get there in 2 minutes. Yet in some sites he had much better sense than me. What I don't like is sites that's nav changes from page to page. That drives me nuts!!!!

Not only is Markp taking me over but so is mg33!!!:F

:D:D:DChuck:D:D:D