Is Flash Kit stealing ideas??

A letter I wrote to Flash Kit a few weeks ago:


"My question is: Are you ripping people off?

I have looked through despriptions of movies in the new section. Some have excellent
descriptions. Others have no useful descriptions at all., not mentioning actionscript features
nor anything else related to Flash.

I have seen movies so simple and basic its almost embarressing. People submit
buttons(!!!) and get them accepted. People submit samples of the simplest features of Flash
and get them accepted.

AND, I`m seeing submissions that show ZERO sense of visual design.

I got rejected, among other things, a fully actionscript driven dancer/figure, that have bodyparts
that can be dragged around, and a set of fully scripted movements constituting various "dances".
You may say its a fairly advanced setup.

I got rejected an actionscript driven paint program. This program contains samples
of many Flash 5 as features, such as color, alpha etc. It also presents a clean and functional interface.

I also got a few other movies rejected for reasons beyond me.

I dont aspire to the title Master of The Flash Universe, nor do I believe my work is
that new nor unique. And admittingly, I DONT write the most beautiful code in the world.

But, WHEN COMPARING the quality of a bunch of the movies you have accepted (including some of the new stuff), and my
own, rejected work, and when comparing my descriptions to a bunch of others, I find no reason for rejecting my work.

It makes me wonder if you are ripping people off, stealing their ideas and work.

I base that also on the fact that I submitted 5 movies over a year ago, got email confirmation
that they were received, and then heard nothing ever again. Needless to say the movies never showed up
on your site.


Oeyvind Toft"


Cant help but airing my views. There are lots of excellent stuff
in the movie section. But lets face it, there are also tons of pure crap. I dont like to be beaten by pure crap.

Oeyvind

:confused:

So because you're movies weren't excepted, is means FK is "ripping" off other peoples work? Eh? What are you talking about. You think the FK admins are taking your work, not posting it, and then using it for their own portfolios? Oooooookay dude.

let's put things in perspective.


1. You arn't registered till today. How can we make sure this is your work. Those crappy buttons and stuff may be crappy but are probably one of the few works we know for sure that arn't ripped. Among other things most movieclips are made here on this board.


2. Try looking up some stuff from CAP or other online groups that find their home here on this board (CAP for example is the project of the A&A board). Those are community projects ofcourse there are some crappy arts between them but it was made in a community effort hence deserving a place in the movie section.

3. I havn't looked at your code or anything, but did it occur to you that your code could be so sloppy the people reviewing it didn't understand what you where doing? Mostly the code in the movie section is ordened and neat so anyone nearly always sees what is beeing done.

4. You could email the persons who have fla files posted in the movie section. their name email adress among other things are noted. I'm positive they'll not say it was ripped of from them.

ps. i'm not the one who reviews the code i'm just giving some explanations on why your code could have been rejected. If you really wanted to know why your code has been rejected try emailing the person who rejected your code for further explanation.

LMAO get over it..i've been here forever and dammit they have only accepted 1 thing i've sent in...<falls off chair> BWAHahahahahahahaha

Still waiting for my 2A fla to get approved... :confused:

I can not speak for the admin, nor Flashkit.com; however, some of the stuff I've seen rejected is mostly due to either it being derived, or possibly derived from other projects without giving prior recognition, using music samples that were trademarked, or other legitimate reasons.

the descriptions... those come from the person doing the submission. True, some lack details, while others have details.

Instead of getting mad, and saying that you're "ripped off" ever thought of e-mailing the [email protected]?

How are you getting ripped off? If anything else, all I see is rejection.

Quote:

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Originally posted by bergen

I have looked through despriptions of movies in the new section. Some have excellent
descriptions. Others have no useful descriptions at all., not mentioning actionscript features
nor anything else related to Flash.

---

And the dates on them are? At the beginning of this year things started to change and descriptions are now an absolute requirement.

Quote:

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I have seen movies so simple and basic its almost embarressing. People submit
buttons(!!!) and get them accepted. People submit samples of the simplest features of Flash
and get them accepted.

---

And people download those buttons and use them. And newbies download the simple things and learn from them. It's a balance thing.

Quote:

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I got rejected, among other things, a fully actionscript driven dancer/figure, that have bodyparts
that can be dragged around, and a set of fully scripted movements constituting various "dances".
You may say its a fairly advanced setup.

---

Are you referring to Disco Girl?

Quote:

---

I got rejected an actionscript driven paint program. This program contains samples
of many Flash 5 as features, such as color, alpha etc. It also presents a clean and functional interface.

---

There is at least one already available for download with these features and more.

Quote:

---

But, WHEN COMPARING the quality of a bunch of the movies you have accepted (including some of the new stuff), and my
own, rejected work, and when comparing my descriptions to a bunch of others, I find no reason for rejecting my work.

---

There are quite a few requirements now.

Quote:

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It makes me wonder if you are ripping people off, stealing their ideas and work.

---

Visionray!!!!! Are you stealing code again?

Quote:

---

I base that also on the fact that I submitted 5 movies over a year ago, got email confirmation
that they were received, and then heard nothing ever again. Needless to say the movies never showed up
on your site.

---

Unfortunately, at the beginning of this year there was a corrution in the movies database. We lost over 1300 entries. it was beyond my control.

Quote:

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Originally posted by gerbick
[email protected]?

---

Shhhhh, your not supposed to post that address.

I think he did email a complaint.

gerbick:

Actually, as stated in my post, the letter shown IS a copy of an email posted to [email protected]
-------------------------------------------

Justin strike:
What do you mean I`m not registered till today?

Actually, I dont mind crappy buttons nor crappy stuff on the internet in general. I think one of the fun things about the web is the deversity. Both brilliant stuff and bad stuff. reflects life in general in a way.

What I DO mind is seeing crappy stuff on Flash Kit while some of my own, far more advanced stuff is rejected.

If Flash Kit were filled with only excellent stuff I wouldnt care too much if I were rejected. I would create new stuff and try again later.

As I admitted in my letter, my code isnt beaufiful. However, a movie called MaxiYatzy that they DID accept is a total mess. I cant even understand it myself any more. Tried to fix it for FlashMx but gave up.

Some of the code in my submissions is partly based on great flashers
work. Others are entirely my own. And they took some hard work to
create...

Oeyvind

My 02 cents (cuz I've been here long enuff to give it ;)).

This should have been left between you and FK. Your not going to get any sympathy from anyone here. By making a public statement like this. Basically you've just insulted our entire community.

In the case of Justin Strike. You haven't been here long enuff to get the name right ;)

Perhaps you should have posted some examples. And let the members judge whether your claim has merit or not. Instead of rambling on about this and that.

But on a more positive not the :rolleyes: smilie is still active. So :rolleyes:

jstarkey:

I have seen very limited descriptions of movies submitted in the last months. I dont say there is a huge number of them, but they exist.

I dont know what you mean by "Disco girl". I submitted a movie
called "Dancer".

You already have a paint program for download?? Gee, but not
enough buttons eh?

What requirements??

Oeyvind

megatoon:

I would probably have left it between me and Flash Kit if they had
answered my email.

O`boy !! The WHOLE community??? WHAT HAVE I DONE !!!!!

If you had looked at the end of my posts you would have seen links to my homesite. And Flash work.

Quote:

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Originally posted by bergen

I dont know what you mean by "Disco girl". I submitted a movie
called "Dancer".

---

Can you post it here?

Quote:

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You already have a paint program for download?? Gee, but not
enough buttons eh?

---

How many buttons have you seen on the net this week? Compare that to paint programs.

jstarkey:

Dont take the "button" thing too literary. I mean movies
showing VERY simple features. In general.

You find the dancer under "experiments" on the Flash
part of my web. Links here:

Bergen I’m interested in your fla send it too me. I have been looking for said actionscript to make a similar shaking doll and have not been able to find one on flashkit, apart from the nodding Indian doll

Please send it to me in a zip [email protected]

Much appreciated.

Crazybonkers
;)

Okay first things first. These are links to your work:
http://home.online.no/~oeyvtoft/ToftWeb/
http://home.online.no/~oeyvtoft/Toft...rameset/3d.htm
http://home.online.no/~oeyvtoft/Toft...eset/flash.htm
Note how they actually "link" to your work!

My point was. If you actually interested in getting these submitted. You would have put these "links" with in the first paragraph of your original flame. I'm sure if enuff people like them and posted back saying such. Then they would magically be submitted.

Instead you've wasted the whole 8 posts you've ahve here. Vainfully trying to justify your original post.

But no fear the Waaaahhhhhh-bulance is on the way!

crazybonkers:

Dancer is send...

Hope you`ll find it useful.


Oeyvind

If you could, I am also interested in the dancer.

Thanks.

Email: [email protected]

what i ment with not registered very long is this

Date Registered: 11-28-2002

anyway as megatoon said mostly things are submitted after they have been on the forum (atleast with cap) dunno how it is with all other movies though.

However you must realize though that the administrators here have a really though job maintaining everything without even having to think about how they done people wrong...

as for your work well it's ok the dancer was kinda funny havn't seen the source can't comment on the neatness of your code. However do not submit fla files with elements of code you "lend" from other people without prior notice. I think there could be some legal hassle with flashkit and the original author if flashkit does post it.

but all by all it seems pretty ok..

one thing though if you post your complaints on a board (any board) don't be surprised if people start to comment and reply on the topic, afterall you chose tomake it public instead of using email to solve it personally

pargoodgolfer:

Dancer on its way...

At this address you`ll find 10 - 12 of my fla`s:

http://www.actionscripts.org/movies-categories.php

(Luckily for them they accepted all my submissions...saving them
angry email from me =O))

Oeyvind

justice strike:

I still dont understand what that registration-thing has to do with
anything. First you said I didnt register till today, now you`ve set another date (The correct one this time I may add).

And I dont see the foggiest reason why the submissions should be on some sort of forum to be accepted. If so, why did Flash Kit accept 3 of my submissions?

I thought the moviesection was all about sharing and "lending" as you call it?? In my mind, if people "lend" scripts as part of creating something unique, or give an idea a good twist, I think it should be named "reuse". If people practically copies an intire setup, or most of it, crediting the originator is absolutely in its place.

I know I`ve sinned a couple of times against this. But I guess all of us Flashers could shape up in that area??

Well actually, I DO post on these forums to get replies, I thought that was what forums were about. Hardly a place to be suppriced if some soul out there replies??

Oeyvind

megatoon:

Oh dear, 8!! posts?? I`m but a poor amateur compared to your
3445 !!! If thats your total posts?? Really??
But of course, I assume all and every one of your 3445 posts contain only deeply insighful contributions to the Flash community.

I will NEVER understand why some people on forums/newsgroups waist posts/time/energy on what they believe are other people`s stupid/waisted posts.

Why dont they just go somewhere else and read something else???
Beats me...

Oeyvind

DUH! you are just not 1337 enough until you have at least 10 posts.

Quote:

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Originally posted by swampy
DUH! you are just not 1337 enough until you have at least 10 posts.

---

The admin newsletter said they were thinking of reducing that by half... its shoocking, anyone can be 1337 these days.

Quote:

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Originally posted by bergen
megatoon:
Oh dear, 8!! posts?? I`m but a poor amateur compared to your
3445 !!! If thats your total posts?? Really??
But of course, I assume all and every one of your 3445 posts contain only deeply insighful contributions to the Flash community.

---

Actually, yes all of my posts do (okay about %95)

I do have the time to waste,and so do you obviously.
You're the one that made this whole thing public, not me!
What did you expect?

So cry me a river, and I'll p*ss you a puddle. :rolleyes:

Well, after reading all these insightsful replies I cant say I`ve changed my mind since I wrote the sited letter. On the contrary.

I dont mind people disagreeing with me in a discussion, they may even TOTALLY disagree with me (Gets more fun that way and you may even learn a lot). But I DO mind not seeing a single valid argument anywhere. People not even able to READ what is ACTUALLY written in a post.

I hoped for some intelligent answers, seen none...

Some guy talk about my registration and cant even get it right.
Like the registation day has anything to do with it.

And that people cannot know if its my work (!!!). Then he talk about "new requirements". But fails to give me an answer to what those are. And some nonsense about works being on some forum before being accepted. Not very helpful.

And as far as I know, none of the people that have replied here is in any way responsible for choosing among submissions. Why not??

As this megatoon character so strongly pointed out, I have insulted the entire (yes, the ENTIRE!!!)Flash community. How many are they??? 100? 1000? 10000? 1000000?
Wonder why noone in charge answered. And why noone has answered my email in the first place? They must have heard about this terrible Bergen???

But on the other hand, a person that cant find a link if it bit him in the ass may be wrong about me now being an infamous infant flash terrible.

He certainly didnt share any of his 95% wisdom in THIS tread.

I know some of you were very disapointed when looking at my work. You had to realize it was actually pretty good. Right? So you lost this
grand opportunity to continue lashing out. Still, some guys never give up do they? (Even without having the foggiest idea about my work some people lash out. Doesnt seem to be very intelligent when there are 3 big fat links to my web on every single one of my posts.)

Also very amusing is the fact that some people here warns me that I may get answers to my posts !!! Holy cow !!! Answers !!! In a newsgroup !!! Wow !!! Who would know !!!!

On the positive side, two persons ask me to send them one of my files.
One of them stating that he has looked for something like it on Flash Kit without luck. Actually he helps me making my point by stating this. The file is good and the like is maybe not to find elsewhere on Flash Kit, or at least hard to find. So why on earth did someone reject it? Makes me wonder.

You have seen my work and know very well its more than worth its place in a Flash archive.

What provokes me is not the fact that I`ve had work rejected. I can live happily ever after without having my work placed here.
What provokes me is the fact that I`ve not been treated professionally.

So my question is still: Are you (Flash Kit) ripping people off?

btw. the work that WAS accepted never turned up in the "new" section, effectivly burying it in the archive.


Oeyvind

:yawn:
http://members.shaw.ca/terries/PStennis/stfu_cen.jpg


J' I think deserve some extra browny points for taking the time to censor the image :) Pleeeeeease don't ban me, just close this useless whiny thread.

megatoon:

Useless whiny tread eh?

How come, after a silence of 23-24 (?) hours on this tread, 5 (!) mins after my post you reply?

To be so useless, you seem to be keeping a keen eye on it? The other participants on this tread seem to have lost interest and butted out.
But you dont give up that easy do you ?

You are not too clever are you megatoon ?

U know, life is more than message boards on the internet.

PS. I`ll set my watch and clock you in when your next reply appears.
Lets see if you can stay outta here for more than 5 mins this time.
Exciting eh !!

:D

megatoon:

8 mins and 35 secs...Or somthing like that...

You couldnt help yourself could you megatoon ?

At least this time you didnt bless this tread with your brilliant comments nor any of your excellent advices...

I see progress here !!!!


Oeyvind

:D :D

I have been watching this a bit and I just have a couple of points to make.

bergen... You seem rather annoyed and frustrated that

Quote:

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none of the people that have replied here is in any way responsible for choosing among submissions.

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is the Flashkit webmaster not high enough in the rankings for you? (yes, he did reply... and you trashed him out if memory serves)

People submit hundreds of things to Flashkit all the time. Somtimes things get lost in server crashes (there have been some) and various other computer mishaps. it is possible that this might have happened a year ago when your other 5 went missing.

Congratulations on wanting to submit your work and provide it for others to use... there might be some valid reason for your other work to have not been accepted... time and patience will hopefully grant a personal response from the people in charge...

Finally, you will find people get up on their high horses if you trash out FK... There are people that have been here quite a lot longer than others, and FK is more than just a simple place to talk for a lot of us. It is a network of professionals, and inspiring design people, and by insulting FK you insult them...

Good luck on getting the stuff up and on FK, but if it does not - there are other places around that I am sure will accept.

--Tiana

Hi Tiana

Finally a person that seem sincere and intelligent !!

Please, if you quote me, do it properly. You make my assumption
into a statement. I said "AS FAR AS I KNOW...".

Well, I didnt know that one of the participants in this tread was the webmaster. That fact makes me even more suppriced of the lack of intelligent replies/arguments in here !!

Maybe you`re right about my missing 5. I know computers can be some
evil beasts and do great harm. (But shouldnt a site that is trusted with tons of submitted material have a top quality backupsystem??)

Thanks for wishing me luck in getting my stuff up and on Flash Kit.
However, as I stated in an earlier post, the object of this tread
IS NOT to get my work into FK at all. It is to figure out WHY it`s not here in the first place.

I have a great confidence in my Flash(and 3d, photography, programming, design I may add) work. I dont have to have my material accepted at flash archives to feel that way.

My motivation for submitting work is to have it represented out there.
And if someone find it useful thats nice.

On newsgroups in general: There are people that use it to get and share info, ideas, views, solve problems, help others solve problems.
They actually READ posts before they reply and they do it with intelligence and thought. I.E. they debate with valid arguments and views.

Then there is the other sort of newsgroup - people: Roaming around
the entire collection of forums, butting in with unnecesarry and meaningless comments everywhere they can. And they simply LOVE treads like this. They dont bother reading them properly nor do they bother to think up any solid arguments. They simply lash out on first chance.
Because thats why they are there in the first place. It makes them feel important. (The funny thing is that the people stating how useless a tread is are the same people who cant stay out of it)

You`ve seen the kind in this tread, and they are in every newsgroup around. One neat trick to figure out who is the newsgroup`s clown is to post a few messages asking for warez or cracks. They NEVER miss a chance to lash out after that kind of posts. And so, the names that turns up in ALL warez/crack - treads are the ones.
In fact the newsgroup clowns LOVE them.

In my opinion a newsgroup that turns into a social club is mostly useless. Space is wasted on the blabber between the forum hangouts.
Why dont they use ICQ or the like and leave the forums to the people that really know how to use it?

Oeyvind

why can you not just consider that maybe, just maybe the file wasn't good enough for inclusion ?

FK recieves hundreds of files and it would be a full time job to offer an in depth critique and e mail the author of every file that was rejected.

To you the file is probably the BEST_FLA_EVAR, but then of course it is, because it is your baby. I have submitted files to FK and had them rejected and I'm a mod. Do I start derisery threads and slate everyone and anyone who deigns to reply in them ? Nope, I get off my arse and write something better that will be included.

Face facts, your fla was probably looked at objectively and discarded. It doesn't mean that john starkey has a personal vendetta against you it just means that he doesn't have time to write to every one whose files are rejected.

The "pure crap" that you refer to is there because we have a large percentage of users who are new to flash, we have also been going since the days before AS became a fully fledged scripting language and a lot of the files that are now considered "pure crap" were innovative at the time they were made.

The fact that you come in with a deliberatley antagonistic thread title doesn't help. Perhawps a title like " I am concerned that my FLA hasn't been included on FK" would have got you more sympathy for your cause.

Damn i have just read this entire post and i have to agree with what has been said this should have been kept between FK and BERGEN.
However BERGEN posted on here to get peoples point off view and all i have really seen is people slam him to the ground without giving it a thought as to weather he could be right or not. One thing i cant understand here is im not sure on the rules/requirements for a movie to get put on FK but to say its based on original code (does anything like that excist in flash now) ??. There are books, tutorials, forums, and god knows what else with code after code but is any off it really original now ?? Everyone thats designed is enspired from something or someone am i wrong ??. Anyway back to the point BERGEN asked are people being ripped off ?? I guess only FK no the answer to that BUT may i add FK wouldnt be what it is if it wasnt for its members submissions and so on would it ?? I think BERGEN has a valid point and the fact that he cant even get a simple reply from FK themselves does add some doubt there in my mind. I understand that a site so huge must get so many emails but doesnt every email get looked at atleast once or is it just put into a filtering system that only certain things get through ?? Once again may i add only FK no that. I myself have been around on these boards for a while now even before i registerd with this username and i admit i aint half advanced as some people here but i hate seeing posts where peiople get slammed when they think there just asking a streight forward question. This post wasnt directed at any member from what i read but thats how some people have taken and may i add way to personal. Cant people just stick to what was asked ?? ARE PEOPLE BEING RIPPED BY FK ?? Slam me also by all means im not one to loose sleep over it or worry its just a public forum. Give BERGEN a break nothing in this world is perfect and i bet even FK has its falts.

Mental

that's the problem with communities, if someone slates the community that we feel we belong to then we take it as an insult on us personally.

Yeah perhaps that is the case BUT arent we all adult enough here to realise BERGEN wasnt directing this at anyone personaly he was simply asking a question. I dont see a post SUBJECT saying (Is Flash Kit srealing ideas??)(username)(username)(username)(username)(i s also doing so and this is directed at them)?? Nope i dont and maybe im a whatever u wanna call me here but hey im just telling it how it is. People these days take things to serious and yeah if i really thought someone was slandering FK really bad dont get me wrong i would slam them down as Fk has helped me create what i can do today. But my personal opinion here is cut the guy some slack and think like him and not like someone that loves FK the way you do.

Mental

mentaleruptions:

Thanks! Its very refreshing to finally get a reply from someone who has actually READ my posts and considered my arguments.

Perhaps you`re right in that this should be kept between myself and Flash Kit. The problem is it would be a one way communication.

swampy: Its not "the" file. I got rejected 8-9 fla`s. Most of them
included on my web if you care to see them. And you tell me if that material isnt good enough for Flash Kit?

I assume "the" file you`re referring to is a file called "Dancer"?
Its not good enough for FK eh? Well, it happens to include a general setup for actionscript driven figures. Wount you say that could be useful to any flashers out there?

And what about "Math.animation" ? Wount you say its a nice twist on a
paint program? It includes a LOT of actionscript features.

No, I dont think its the best fla ever. If you had actually READ my first post you would probably not serve us such a stupid comment.

Who`s talking about symphathy for the cause? I want INTELLIGENT answers based on my posts, whether they are pro or con.
Thats what I want.

I dont give a rats ass if people here like me or not.

Oeyvind

why would I want to call you anything for voicing your opinion. Equally Bergen is entitled to his opinion and likewise the other participants in this thread.

I offered a possible scenario, which may or may not be right, to counter bergens scenario that FK was stealing peoples files. Perhaps I was mistaken in the beleif that this was meant to be a discussion about the issues that were affecting bergen. my mistake.

Maybe im wrong but isnt this post way over its mark ??. I think its been totaly taken off the subject at hand by a few that just want to let off some steam they have and see this post and thing yeah this is my time. Swampy i wasnt getting at you or trying to put it in anyway that what you was saying wasnt right i dont always type exactly what i mean but whats the one thing we all never want to believe ??

THAT SOMETHING WE LOVE CAN DO ANYTHING WRONG AT ALL IN ANYWAY

Thats the one thing in this world that people fail to see. I doubt very much FK are stealing peoples ideas do they even have the time to do so ?? I bet they cant waite to leave the office and go home to there families at night and i dont blame them who doesnt want to do that ??
Put this post to sleep i think it needs it.

Mental