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please tell me or give me a link how to create an online rpg, if i create a game in flash, i can make a pretty good games in flash but i don't know how can people play it on the server, actually i want to know, how can i create a multyplayer game in flash (like online pool on yahoo or something like that)
I hope, you understood my question :)
thanks best wishes :)
I assume you are a noob (sorry for beeing that direct),- so I highly suggest you to first create anything else besides a MMRPG. And once you gain knowledge you will understand that there are way more easy and fun genres other then the stupid hyped MMRP, GTA & 3dFPS ones.
Search: Key Word(s): rpg ; Forum: Games and child forums
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Decent MMORPG's are not possible in flash, if this is your end goal, move to javascript and other languages and leave flash forever like I chose to.
you need $2000 bucks to make one.
everybody who's anybody knows that.
no seriously you need $3000 bucks
Another rpg thread eh.........
Now I feel like a newb for posting my playing around rpg thread....
hmm.
I got a big check in the mail, I have some goof off time. (and thats exactly what it is)
Listen to everyone here, dont make an rpg, please god. First off it will take you way to long, you wont finish it, and it will suck even if you do, and no one will play it.
honesty hurts
These threads make me feel like I'm wasting my time with my game, but seriously, take it from someone who's made and is making an RPG...Don't do it.
And I'm talking about a single, player, off-line RPG...
why does everyone get even more annoyed when its rpg/fps or other specific genres?
what if they popped up saying, "i would like to make a game like plasma pong". do you think the board members would be a bit less aggresive?
both types of games (rpg and plasma pong) would most likely be difficult to achieve in flash, but people assume the background of a person if they ask specificly about rpg's, fps's, or other games of the like
and that would mean they're being stereotyped wouldnt it?
With plasma pong, the question is likely to be more specific ("how do I make plasma effects?"), as opposed to MMORPGs, where people will tend to say "I just got a Flash trial. How do I make RuneScape?"
Forgive me if that didn't make any sense, I have no idea what plasma pong is.
it was a new game thats been released...somewhere, and people seemed to like and wish that flash had that kind of graphical power
i myself, did not play it
http://board.flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?t=722181
and what you say is true, most games are not as broadly-ranged as an rpg, however difficult they may be to make
no, it would be exactly the same. Its how the first post is questioned. If someone posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by trogdor458
"Hi, how do i make plasma pong?"
your gonna get the same result. Why should anyone help?
you have to show initiative and a genuine interest in the game. All these threads i see lately all seem to look like someone trying to make a buck, maybe a friend has told them, "man you can make easy money with flash" so they go out, check out newgrounds and say to themselves "hey no one's done a good rpg here, i'll make one and get heaps of money", two seconds later you get a post like this on FK. That really pees me off.
is there an actual RPG thread where the first post actually contains thoughts or ideas on how to accomplish the task. I don't think so. Maybe if people actually show an interest other people will too.
flaming or not we need measurements against all this. I suggest an Information in the sticky where we can link or refer to if another thread like mr Malee described pops up.
Within that sticky we can give them all the information (sockets, xml, asp,...) with links and so on but most importantly note that it´s nothing one should start with if he just started with flash.
That way we dont essentially have to be rude but still can guide the specific individuals in the right direction.
Well the Read Me sticky does cover a lot of stuff, and was written to avoid all this flaming.
I must admit the Gemini in me makes me split. Sometimes I'm of the attitude "Sod it, they've just torrented Flash, expect to make WoW with 3 clicks and it's just a waste of time and energy even entertaining some people".
Plus their is some mild gratification in writing a funny flame.
The more grown up part of me wants to either ignore what I deem to be a pointless thread, or just re-direct them to the Read Me guide. I think anyone who has a proper read of that will have a good starting point to progress.
In an ideal world when a post like this, or for example the skate boarder one, comes up just one person will dive in there, and say something along the lines of:
"You want to make an rpg, you'll need to know:
* Collision detection
* External loading ( xml / images etc. )
* Player Movement
* Array and text handling
* All the other millions of things you need to know before even worrying about socket servers and the like.
Oh, and look and the Read Me sticky".
If everyone did that, the board would be a lot more flame free.
Also I do think the genre does really annoy people, and make them less likely to help. I've seen people ask similar questions about something involving moving sprites around, and people throw code and help at them ( When the posters have about the same skill level as someone wanting to do an rpg ).
I think people are more confident about helping with ( For example ) a tank game, than an rpg, that combined with the perceived lack of ability of anyone asking how to make an rpg ( As opposed to a missle command clone ) just leads to flaming.
( Personally speaking, the posts that get my back up a million times more than any other, are the ones that start "I'm doing a game for a client...". Really ? Well perhaps you shouldn't have accepted the job when you don't have a clue what you're doing and just expect others to help out whilst you pick up the cheque at the end of the project. And breath... )
Guys keep in mind that these are just phases the board goes through, highs and lows and all that.
Squize.
Wow, after all those replies none of you gave any effort to help him on his way to creating an online rpg. Just the usual cocky replies like noob this and noob that. Thats why I hardly post on this messageboard some peoples ego's get the best of them. In regards to the poster of this thread, you will need to do alot of reading but I hope my advice will help guide you. First off, you do not need $2000 or $3000, all you need is a brain, the willpower to read and understand various computer related subjects like programming languages and databases.
This does not only apply to creating mmorpgs but anything online with a flash gui, such as a flash chat room, a flash message board, etc. To create such things you would need to create and store all your graphics into flash, actionscript to communicate with flash, actionscript to communicate with external files, asp or php to communicate with xml files and mysql database. Its a process of linking everything together. I went the php route, instead of asp, but its really just a matter of preference. Just to give you an idea of what handles what I have them listed below. These are just examples not a full rundown.
-------
mysql
- stores accounts
-------
php
- sends and retrieves data from mysql
- connects flash with mysql
- example1: CreateNewPlayer.php
- example2: LoginToServer.php
- example3: VerifyLogin.php
-------
xml
- stores external game data which can be edited without recompiling flash
- example1: town_map.xml
- example2: items.xml
- example3: quests.xml
You need to read book on mysql, php, xml, php&mysql databases. read, read, then read some more.
Im in process of typing up a graphical pdf for creating a step by step mmorpg in flash but its still in development.
You can always email: jchaught [at] gmail [dot] com
But please do the required reading above first, saves me tons of explaining. I may or may not answer your email if you email me questions that are already answered on this forum, or in books like books listed above. If questions are about the pdf Im creating, your email addresses will be saved and email when book is ready for release.. yup it will be a free ebook on making an mmorpg in flash step by step...with pictures.
Keep the faith, there are some of us who want to share.
If you want real-time responses, you should also look at using a socket server of some sort. There are a couple premade socket servers that Flash game writers use for their real-time multi-player games.
SmartFoxServer
http://www.smartfoxserver.com/
ElectroServer 3
http://www.electro-server.com/
@FaeKitty - I know of both socket servers you have listed, but Im a do it myself kind of person so Ive coded my own from scratch to tailor fit my game. SS's arent that hard to code and you learn more by doing so then to use other's work.. some which are demos and have to pay for.. with all the free information out there why pay for something when you could code it your self for free? Of the two listed, If I had to choose I would go smartfoxserver.
A good book, if you are a person that goes the book route, that discusses xml sockets, linking java socket servers to flash, linking asp or php to flash and mysql, flash enviroment is called XML in Flash.
oicu812, you seem like a total expert on this topic, wiht multiplayer, and...well, my interests turned to flash, because I hoped to make an amazing flash multiplayer game, and now that I've had a bit of practice with basic games (non-network-multiplayer), I want to start learning the server stuff.
a) Could you please just help me go through all the basics, in flash, and PHP. My knowledge in PHP is minimal, up to the point where I can create an e-mailing form, though I do know how to open text files, use the info, and then add to them...not far...Could you maybe...well, send me a private message, then I'll give you my e-mail, so we can talk easier,
b) Once I learn the basics, could you help me with creating the server and stuff, and helping me with my first, multiplayer game, which I'm not planning to be big at all, just a little learning project.
If you don't have time, then I understand, since it sounds really complicated the stuff you talked about...
Oh yeah, my thought on that, I think that everyone should go the PHP way, since it's pretty much ASP, plus it's free.Quote:
First off, you do not need $2000 or $3000, all you need is a brain, the willpower to read and understand various computer related subjects like programming languages and databases.
This does not only apply to creating mmorpgs but anything online with a flash gui, such as a flash chat room, a flash message board, etc. To create such things you would need to create and store all your graphics into flash, actionscript to communicate with flash, actionscript to communicate with external files, asp or php to communicate with xml files and mysql database. Its a process of linking everything together.
Isn't that complicated?Quote:
I know of both socket servers you have listed, but Im a do it myself kind of person so Ive coded my own from scratch to tailor fit my game.
There are many things that oicu has ommited or skipped over. First, creating a socket server is one of those things that seems simple, but in actuality is incredibly difficult to do properly. Creating a robust socket server requires advanced knowledge of almost every programming concept, including multiplexed IO, thread pools, threads in general etc.
Anytime you have what amounts to uncontrollable random input that you have to synchronize and do something with (and half of it could be forged packets from some script kiddy), you can bet your ass you are in for a "fun" time.
Not only that, but when you have messages that are coming from a million different versions of the current world, you will have some messy contradictions and logic problems.
Without incredible foresight and planning, you could easily end up with an obscure bug that crashes your server a couple of times a day once you have 50 or so real people playing it.
Yes, a mmorpg will require a custom coded server, no, its not nearly as easy as you think it is.
One thing that has always puzzled me is why people come to a forum when they want to make a mmorpg.
There is a reason why there are books written on this stuff. Some topics cant be covered in three paragraphs of text.
If you really want to make a mmorpg, be willing to figure it out for yourself. There are very few people who have actually done it, and I don't know any who have on this forum (although some could).
Really, the 2000-3000$ estimate isn't all that far fetched. It's usefulness is debatable, but I wouldn't be surprised if I have half that in books, and I don't regret it.
And finally, "Good luck making a mmorpg with Php"
(I was going to mention the choice of language myself, but this post is long enough)
I can make a completely text based RPG in PHP. Its actually not that hard to understand the different mysql queries, it just takes eons to do.
I like anyone who codes something to learn how it works. That's both helpful and a good trait to have. With that said though, I feel that the intent to write their own socket server is why so few Flash mplayer games ever get completed.Quote:
Originally Posted by oicu812
Writing a server that echos back responses to a group of people is simple. Getting it to be stable, scalable, performant and have a pile of useful features is far from it. This is why the number of actual servers out there in real-world use is so small.
I'd love if you could fill me in on why SF is your preference. Preferably offline via PM, IM, email, etc. to avoid this thread going even farther off-topic :)Quote:
Originally Posted by oicu812
There are multiple people on this forum with real-world mplayer game development experience. If you ask a specific question (always in a new topic!) then you should have no trouble getting helpful responses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pazil
ASP and ASP.NET are free too? So is Java (and several orders of magnitude more powerful then PHP). I don't know where this "php or nuttin'" attitude comes from to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pazil
While I agree with a great deal you said, I specifically disagree with this. Generic servers are capable of making MMOs if they are flexible enough. This is the business model of several companies these days. For instance, Google "Big World" to see what I mean. If I have my way, the next version of ElectroServer will come with an MMO toolkit to enable people to build their own without too much guts-level coding.Quote:
Originally Posted by 691175002
Add a handful of zeros if you are looking to make the next WoW. Even a simple MMO is going to cost a great deal if you have to pay for any development. Figure a full-time skilled programmer cost starts at about 90k a year when you factor in the cost of benefits (and this is assuming you don't live in an over-priced location like the coasts). That's 90k for 2000 hours of development. How many hours do you think it took to build WoW?Quote:
Originally Posted by 691175002
Electro Server could make a mmorpg, however when you will be needing to mesh so tightly with the server (for anti-cheating etc), I still think learning to code your own socket server won't be a massive deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by webgeek
I have a feeling we are going to need a separate mmorpg subforum if that gets included.Quote:
Originally Posted by webgeek
Anti-cheating is game-specific, not server-specific. As for the complexity, I still stand by my previous comments. Many people try, few suceed. With enough dedication and determination, it's doable but it's significantly more of an undertaking then most seem to think.Quote:
Electro Server could make a mmorpg, however when you will be needing to mesh so tightly with the server (for anti-cheating etc), I still think learning to code your own socket server won't be a massive deal.
I agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by webgeek
On another note, it slipped my mind in my previous post, but will the next version of ElectroServer send data as xml or a more compact form? I can't see any disadvantages of using a more compact form (aside from complexity on your end) and it should run slightly faster.
XML is the default protocol for ES3 but we also have the ability for users to plug in their own protocol for games. We use it regularly ourselves. The next version of ES has several protocols. One of which is highly condensed and lightweight.Quote:
On another note, it slipped my mind in my previous post, but will the next version of ElectroServer send data as xml or a more compact form? I can't see any disadvantages of using a more compact form (aside from complexity on your end) and it should run slightly faster.
I think this is now helpful and readable thread. I had to edit some posts too to remove parts that does not make sense anymore.PHP Code:removeOffTopicPosts = function {
var done = true;
}
Thanks tonypa! Anyways, for making my own server, I know I'm no where near experienced enough, but...I don't know where to start, AT ALL. It's like a baby in the woods. Do I need PHP experience, Flash...??? I'm just really confused how to make something like that. If any of you have a tutorial, that would be awsome...Sorry for...distrupting your high tech conversation, but I'm just one of the few who's interested in this topic.
What language you choose to connect between flash and a database isnt very important. People in general, are full of voicing their opinions on which is better, which is faster, etc, etc, but in the end the language you pick still gets the job done and that is all that matters in the end. You do not need to limit your focus on what I said earlier.. I gave examples of languages you could use to connect between flash and a database. I used asp and php as examples. You could use asp, c++, java, perl, php, and others. I have used all these Ive listed in my last sentence in the past, I really have no gripes or preferences towards any of them and I really dont care to hear other peoples views about java is superior, or perl is superior, etc. You pick the language that best fits your game, not because of peer pressure from a forum.
My first rpg was single player tile based world without using xml. I then converted it to using external xml. My second rpg was single player isometric world which used external xml. I even did an art based rpg later on, probably should have been my first rpg but oh well. I have converted all of them to multiplayer using different languages and socket servers, thus was a way of better learning what does what. My current rpg project is 3D first person world and is in very early development. Its a harder project because there are almost no flash books on the subject, you are better off reading game programming gems books, rpg programming with directx, etc and by referencing their methods convert a 3d first person engine to flash.
Ive been programming since I was about 10, Im 28 now. Always been big with understanding math. If you want to create good rpgs you need to use complex math. I understand things alot easier because Ive been programming with various languages and use complex math for several years. So when I said, programming my own socket server to tailor fit my game wasnt that hard, thats exactly what I meant to say, however, I wasnt saying it wouldnt be hard for someone else to understand.
Ive made a tailored fit java socket server for my 3d first person engine world. When I say tailored fit I mean features that are specific to MY game, features that never seem available on other socket servers that Ive tested. Since its in very early development Ive currently only have it connecting to server via localhost, and have mashed out a usable walkable 3d first person engine. Im in process now of creating general gui interface to support inventory, spellbook, and status, popup windows. There are no monsters or attacking system yet but once I get a general gui interface up I will start on other feature like that. No sorry, dont have a link or a zip for you to view to preview the engine, feel free to voice negative opinions but you have no idea how much math and code is involved here.
Also, none of my games have been posted online, so all you have is my word of what Ive said Ive done. I code them to learn, test them, then usually archive them to cd and continue to another project to heighten my skills, so again feel free to voice negative opinions if you doubt me. I wont respond likely.
I reread my post, and dont know where any of you are getting the idea my socket server was done in php..
In my first post on this thread I posted examples, and said it wasnt a full rundown, I also listed filenames with .php but had said in a previous setup, that (flash, xml, php, mysql) could be used not only for online games but same setup could work for a flash chat, or a flash message board. I said these are examples, none of those examples listed a socket server made of php.
Rereading my post once again, I probably should have listed other languages like perl and java in my first post but I just listed two examples and said I chose the php route, which I was rather blunt there, what I meant was I listed .php examples instead of .asp examples, I can see where everyone easily mistook it as me saying I went php route for a socket server, but thats not what was meant, I was just giving examples of how flash could connect to mysql using php.
Also, rereading my second post when I was replying to FaeKitty I never said my socket server was coded in php. Actually I never said in either of my first two posts what my socket server was programmed in. If you reread both my posts you will understand.
The reason why we look down on mmorpg posts is precisely because we have an idea of what is involved. I would also like to point out that webgeek is one of the creators of ElectroServer.Quote:
Originally Posted by oicu812
In my opinion, using PHP at all when you already have a socket server is a bad idea. I have seen a game where it checks a password/username combo against a .php file and if it checks out, logs into electroserver with that name. There is nothing preventing someone from just skipping the verification step altogether.
Of course, thats just an example of extreme stupidity, but fixing it while keeping the php and socket server separate would add extreme unnecessary complications.
In general, books that are on anything of value are high level enough to be applicable to any language.
And thanks for cleaning out the thread Tonypa.
First off, when I stated "You have no idea how much math and code is involved here", it was in reference to not wanting to post my code so I wouldnt get replies like "hey oicu812 I dont understand the math in your engine can you break it down to a lower math so I can use it".. I just really dont have the time to reply to such things, but for beginners who are creating tile based or isometric tile based games sure no problem, there tons of people that can help you there, because almost everyone has created a tbw or iso tbw in there own way, and sure Id also help you on that.
Second, unless this has changed, Jobe Makar is the lead programmer and co-owner of Electrotank, and I already assumed webgeek was a programmer for Electrotank because of his reply when I make the comment that if I had to choose between Electrotank and Smartfoxserver, Id pick Smartfoxserver.. that is if I really had to choose one, since I coded my own I really wouldnt need to choose would I? I dont take pleasure in bashing anyone in a forum, but Ive read Jobe Makar's book "macromedia flash mx game design demystified" and Im not impressed with his coding methods nor his unhelpful thoughts concerning rpgs.
Third, 691175002, you keep losing me because you post crap that Ive never posted. Ive never said that Im using php with a socket server. I have said that Ive used php to connect flash to mysql, and ive also stated ive coded my own socket server which in my last post told it was coded in java, where do you get mislead and thinking I use php and a socket server with the same game? Please do tell, because youve really lost me.
Fourth, I see where you all are saying $2000 or $3000 or more when creating mmorpgs.. you are referencing the money you waste buying books and software, and possibly including the hardware to run server on.. Well, I guess I was factoring in just the money one would waste on server hardware. Its a sad thought of someone paying that much for books. Most communities like this frown on the way I go, but Ive spent zero dollars on all my books, which are .pdf's or .chm's which were downloaded using ftp, torrent, etc freely and are stored on 4.7gb dvds, and same way with software. So at the cost of an internet account and a spindle of dvds what ever that costs my collection probably outgrows your collection in books and I paid almost nothing. Server OS would probably go linux style which is free download, and that pretty much leaves hardware for server to run on which unfortunately requires actual money to obtain, but a good server, still wouldnt cost $2000 or $3000 or more. You may not like piracy but theres nothing you can do about it, and since I never linked any sites to this thread concerning piracy and etc Im really not breaking any kind of forum rules. Not giving anyone links, and I never requested warez. My only thoughts are if Tonypa is gonna edit my paragraphs again and completely take out this fourth paragraph just because he can. In either case, this is how I spent less than $2000 creating a mmorpg in flash.
I might be a pirate, you may not like it, but I really dont care because in my view you wasted all that money on books which are crowding up space and im living in a paperless enviroment. Unless you paid for your ebooks... shrug
Ja ne!
oicu812, you're rambling
and what the hell is this thread about now anyway?
I say that us guys that are sick of these rpg threads, make a flash rpg maker and sell subscriptions to it. We would make a killing. Its not like the demand isn't there :)
You're right, I don't like it. I don't like people coming into this nice environment and bragging about how they *saved* a thousand dollars by committing a felony, then calling me stupid for obeying the laws. I happen to like having hard copies of material for reference, so I'm pretty offended. I digress; if you feel the need to rip off top dollar programs and books, I suppose that's your perrogative, but don't count and making many friends around here, because from my experiance most people are going to frown on that sort of behavior.Quote:
I might be a pirate, you may not like it, but I really dont care because in my view you wasted all that money on books which are crowding up space and im living in a paperless enviroment. Unless you paid for your ebooks... shrug
Nothing in particular. It's pretty much just cluttering up the front page and should be moved over to the coffee lounge.Quote:
and what the hell is this thread about now anyway?
No kidding, I'm game to do something like that but... how do I make an RPG?Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan2001
Its all good ImprisonedPride I've already programmed it you can write the story.Quote:
No kidding, I'm game to do something like that but... how do I make an RPG?
http://www.freshvision.com.au/uploads/rpg_screen.jpg
Still working out the kinks. Not 100% with the rendering performance. Even the quality.
fotoshoop'ed
You just lost all the little respect you had right there. Not that you had much after the blistering irony and hypocrisy of your posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by oicu812
Bragging about how you steal all your software and books is just pathetic.
I highly suggest you continue hardly posting on this forum.
Co-owner implies that there are other owners. Like myself ;) Jobe didn't actually write any of the server-side code for ElectroServer, I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by oicu812
I'll mostly pass on this comment. Jobe is a big boy and can defend himself. I will simply say this, you are very quick to push your own "superior" knowledge and experience. Yet, strangely enough, you provide no examples of any of it and ask us to take it all on faith. Jobe at least is willing to put something out there for all to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by oicu812
Also, bragging about stealing software and books in a public forum is hardly in good taste whether you support it or not. For a 28-year old with 18 years of programming experience you don't come across very well. I don't think I've seen anyone unify the forum into disliking them so quickly as you appear to have done.
hooligan..show me more of that RPG dude. That can't be realtime 3d..surely?
Not in AS2.
oicu812- You can brag as much as you want provided you've got something to back on display to back up that big mouth of yours. Otherwise you need to get back in your closet.
Sig'd. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by webgeek
Oh and kris, yeah that's totally spoofed, he was being sarcastic.