Welcome in the Club USA.
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Welcome in the Club USA.
...good news for about 32 million people who will be covered now, when they weren't before.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wor...-1225843896004
Quote:
The bill would ban insurance company practices like denying coverage for preexisting illnesses, dropping people from coverage when they get sick, or capping lifetime coverage, and restrict new plans' use of annual limits.
The Public option was knocked on the head in the compromise.Quote:
For the first time in US history, most Americans would be required to buy insurance or face fines, and larger firms could face penalties for not offering coverage.
dp
It is not the solution I would have preferred but it is a start in the right direction.
And the riots will start shortly...
Won't they wait for a while until they find out if they have cover under this new system for teargas, baton and water cannon injuries?Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
david
Like I said... let the riots commence...Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
If Bush passed a similar law, the Republicans would now celebrate. This is not about Healthcare, this is about an African American as a President.Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
Despite the very worst of Bush's foul-ups and treason, nothing this despicable came out of even the most rabid democrat. Republicans have never appeared to be more extremist than right now.
A tweet is not the end of the world. Conservatives have been fueling hatred since Obama was nominated.
I wonder if Rush has started packing.
i'm less scared about the health bill as i am more afraid of the Conservative Right's reaction to this and what they're going to do to further divide the country.
I work with many conservative christians and the thoughts they spew about our current government and the lies they believe are very very scary to me. Glen Beck will be the next Jesus Christ Superstar and i'm deathly afraid.
from out here, it looks like the civil war never really finished.
david
At least the sides taken in the Civil War were clearly defined. I doubt most republicans even know what they're mad about. I saw a bumper sticker the other day (on my way to work) that read, "Republicans: We work hard, so you don't have to." Infuriating.
I just can't get past the irony that the fear mongering is headed by the richest and most educated bankers/insurance giants yet enlists the dumbest most close minded lemmings as their base.
I'm often surprised by the lack of biblical knowlege "Christain Conservatives" have
One thing I would express to the religious right.
Christ healed the sick. To be a Christain is to follow the path of Christ. If Christains want a more Christian nation then an exellent place to start would be the healk care reform act which is the means in which we as a nation can heal the sick. Tolerance and non - violense are also attributed to Christ.
The bible also speaks of being good citizens in both 1 Peter and Romans
So, all 'victory' rhetoric aside...I've stayed out of this discussion until now. I don't consider myself rich by any means, but I have a comfortable life and have worked hard to get there. That being said, I really don't like to have to pay into a system that, while I agree needs change, is going to cause me any financial hardship. I have a tremendous medical plan through my employer and never take advantage of it in any way. We see doctors, we get prescriptions, we pay co-pays/out of pockets, etc. We follow the rules. According to the 'plan' the following two bullet points really stand out.
- 2011
-- Requires employers to report the value of health care benefits on employees' W-2 tax statements.- 2018
-- Imposes a tax on employer-sponsored health insurance worth more than $10,200 for individual coverage, $27,500 for a family plan. The tax is 40 percent of the value of the plan above the thresholds, indexed for inflation.
So, in 2011, I will have more taxable income without any additional take home pay. I now owe more in taxes because I work for a company that is doing the right thing. Odd, to say the least.
Then, in 2018, another tax on the fact that I have a good health plan. If I pay it, I take it in the can. If my employer does, there is less incentive for them to offer such a good plan. Either way, I take it prison style again.
So, to all you fans of change...I am all for people getting medical coverage, but this one smells like a lose/lose for me. To all of those who'd like to throw me into the far right hate mongering category, I will state right here that I am a registered republican, but I'd probably call myself about as socially conservative as Bill Clinton would've been called a far left liberal. I believe in Capitalism as it creates opportunities for those willing to work for them, but, according to this, I see nothing but a tariff on my hard work and effort.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...JKCG.DTL&tsp=1
Not to detrail your points HR or to put you in that crowd....
Gerbick you were right I was wrong
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20...latchy/3457015
Quote:
WASHINGTON — Demonstrators outside the U.S. Capitol , angry over the proposed health care bill, shouted "******" Saturday at U.S. Rep. John Lewis , a Georgia congressman and civil rights icon who was nearly beaten to death during an Alabama march in the 1960s.
I partially agree with HR on not liking this bill but for different reasons.
Everything that was real and meaningful reform was stripped out of the bill.
Over 160 Republican amendments were included in the effort to get bipartisan support and still none of them voted for it.
I would love to see them rip every one of those amendments back out of the bill during reconciliation, but that's not going to happen.
No public option plus mandatory purchase of private insurance or get hit with a fine?
Sorry, there is no way I can support that.
Exactly. When Clinton tried to run the health care reform when he was the president, he got shut down right away. It wasn't about the healthcare reform it was a white man as a president.Quote:
Originally Posted by cancerinform
How do you cover 32 million uninsured citizen? Easy take rich people's income and redistribute to all the people.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
This is going to be a big dent to my paycheck.
Income = $$$$
- subtract Social Security = $$$
- subtract Medicare = $$$
- subtract My IRA = $$$
and now
- subtract Obamacare = $$$
Wait... Obama's next agenda is Housing Reform where everyone is required to have a house to live.
So wait, the goal was universal health care and the solution is a mandate for everyone to buy it? I haven't followed the proposed bill closely at all since I never thought it would pass but now I'm really lost.
If the idea was to provide free health care for those who can't afford, then how else was that going to work aside from taxes? Increasing the cost of a happy meal?
Honestly that was the goal of republicans all along.
Nancy Pelosi could have just just taken the senate bill as is and it would have still gotten exactly the same amount of votes. The differences between the senate version and the final version are vast. She still has learned nothing about republicans. She allowed the minority to set the agenda.
77% of Americans supported the senate version. But the speaker didn't like it because her name wasn't written all over it.
Seriously you jest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaso
IRA is your retirement fund that money is for you ergo if you want to spend it now stop contributing the only one stopping you is you.
As for social security the more you pay in the more you get back at retirement.
What does this mean to you?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/...92790#35992790
Are you making $250,000 a year if so it will cost 2.8 percent. Roughly $7000 a year.
Those making up to 100,000 anually will not see a tax increase.
Surely, you jest. The more I pay, I still plan on having nothing available by the time I can collect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frets
I've not read line by line through the bill, but this video seems over-simplified. They don't mention anything between Family of Four earning 100,000 and Family of Four earning 250,000. What happens to those in between these numbers? As I mentioned above in my bullet points, it seems like I will be paying. Period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frets
Surely, congress jests.
Combine the clulessness pointed out by Frets with the term "Obamacare" and I'm going to make a wild guess... teabagger, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaso
To add, chances are you/your parents/grandparents will also eventually end up or are already benefitting from that Medicare you are paying into.
Speaking of teabaggers, Gerbs nailed it.
Spitting on congressmen, shouting racist and hate slurs, throwing bricks through congressmen's windows, and waving signs that read "If Brown can't stop the bill, Browning (picture of a gun) will" / "Kill the bill OR ELSE".
I think the lunatic fringe is ready to snap and it's going to get ugly/deadly soon.
<edit>removed because I don't care enough.
david
I'm sticking my neck out here HR but isn't it the effects of wall street taking advantage of capitalism that's causing you to lose faith that you'll see an ROI?
Stock prices are up today.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10708...?kval=dontmiss
One thing has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. My investment in my own healthcare already exists. I work for a company which provides a tremendous plan which I pay for part of. The part my company pays for will now be a taxable event for me. In addition, I'll pay additional tax based on how good my plan is.Quote:
Originally Posted by jAQUAN
Evidently, I will now pay extra due to these facts.
Wall Street taking advantage of capitalism has nothing at all to do with paying for healthcare or my personal concerns thereof. As I said, I feel that there are more then enough reasons to provide healthcare to the masses, but I see myself being double taxed for an effort that Mr. Obama wants to hang his legacy on. I don't see how that is even remotely appropriate. I see myself in several years paying MORE for healthcare while getting less for it.
@Frets - in re: Stock Prices up...healthcare industry stocks were down. HMOs, Insurance, etc. All down. Tech, industry, materials...up. Again...nothing whatsoever to do with the other thing.
What did you mean by this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanratty21
Ah - that was in reference to a Social Security comment, I believe. Again...another misplaced discussion in the Health Care thread. If we add SS into this discussion, it'll get insanely disjointed.
Bingo!Quote:
Originally Posted by hanratty21
The bolded part of HR's statement, I agree with almost all stated, but that part especially. I do not feel like this was the way to get things done. The need for an overhaul, needed. The fact this doesn't look like a win-win, sticks with me.
And I'm also a registered republican (that's never voted straight ticket though) and this sorta smacks me in the face as a triumph with a lot faults that will cause problems down the line.
I like the gesture, not liking the outcome.
teabagger.Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
your mother was supposed to keep that secret.Quote:
Originally Posted by hanratty21
^ ^ ^
I don't think there's a font size small enough for that one.
</zing>
Damn you.
I definitely need to learn more about it but so far the mandate leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. I refuse to ever consider myself a member of a political party but the Democrats for the first time in a while are looking more dumb than republicans are apathetic. Still I'm not near as embarassed to be an American or afraid for the constitution as I was troughout the Bush era.
There's a lot about this bill that leaves a bad taste in my mouth as well.
I can only hold out hope that this is a small first step at working towards a real universal single-payer option.
Will Rogers said it best.
"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
Face it.
Too big to fail + Health care == Social system || Community all together a little more
We'll see if USA can stand by itself now.. your in control.
Just a tip: "Ask everyone 10$ to go see the doctor and you will end up with shorter Queue if not in a couple of years your going to wait to see a doctor and put some money in stocks for healthcare research".
In the end I hope less fat people will walk around.
And you guys pay waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to high for Prescription drugs or any kind of service in the field since your Life expectancy is not good enough for what you pay
I think that these two statements contradict each other. Bankers and insurance companies are major contributors to the Democratic party. So, wouldn't it be Democrats that are mixed up about what to be mad about?Quote:
Originally Posted by jAQUAN
Well stated. If we were to focus on ways to make health care less expensive, it would be easier to cover everyone without creating an unnecessary burden on our collective economy. This plan wasn't devised to most efficiently accomplish the stated goals. It was devised to accomplish the goals in a way that was most politically advantageous for Democrats, regardless of additional costs.Quote:
Originally Posted by hanratty21
Medicare funding is being reduced to pay for Obama's plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loyal Rogue
There are always people on both sides of a national debate that do or say indefensible things. Do we really need to degrade this debate by pointing out the stupidest behavior involved (liberal stupidity is available in abundance too)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loyal Rogue
Couldn't agree more with every point. There were better plans proposed to cover everyone and reduce prices.Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
Hopefully not. Then our quality of care will go down as indicated by relative cancer survival rates in countries with single-payer systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loyal Rogue
If you adjust for non health-care related deaths (car accidents, murders, etc.) our life expectancy is amongst the best in the world. We certainly have problems to sort out. However, the evidence indicates that quality of health care is not one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by atRax
They are major contributors to both parties in order to retain influence over any administration. I don't believe for a second that the soft money is given in support of anyones agenda but their own. Not to defend the democrats who seem more addicted to legacy building than Bush did.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
I agree with the general sentiment here that its good to focus on this aggressively and this is an important foot in the door but that the democrats may have just compromised themselves right out of office.
can anyone tell me if this is better or worse then the initial health plan that was suggested?
It's better than what we have, just more expensive in the long-run. Folks are really upset in some cases over 10% increases if they're hit.
And the so-called "options" offered by people was truly non-existent. They said they existed, but those Loch Ness type of offers really were empty and not fully thought out. Stalling techniques of the long-winded.