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Argonauta :
damn, I wish i had read this before reading your #163.Quote:
you don't need to believe me, because I don't know what I'm talking about
Its like drivng a car in desert for nearly 20 hrs non-stop and finally reading a Sign - "No fuel/water in this part of the world"
He was using sarcasm and wit. Quite effectively in our exchanges actually.
Is this quote invisible to all "believers eyes" ?
Yes or No ? Thats it.Quote:
I dont need an answer from books that you think will surely fail, but from your heart Just tell me:
You do all the good things in the world and you don't believe in god, so do you think its a sin and you will go to hell? If God was someone like that who never gives you ticket to heaven just because you dont believe in him, he can not be 'God'.
Gerb, If someone does it, I am ready to hang myself in my bedroom :DQuote:
So prove to me that he does exist.
Yes !! Refer to the books.Quote:
Do you know if God even watches us
My point here is: Why the prayers? In what way is it going to help? And hence why this belief? I know prayers can not even move a dead mosquito, or bring it back to life.Quote:
Your test truly needs work. This doesn't test a believer in the slightest sense.
Only David Blaine can :D
Now you've gone into philosophy. Why prayers? Why not? Why do people confess to a preacher their sins? Why do people trust their psychiatrist with their nigh-subconscious thoughts? I treat a prayer as: 1) A way to put a positive, sincere vibe out in the world of negativity; 2) a way to organize myself to what I will/should be working on; 3) because it verbalizes what's heavy on my mind and allows me to cope.Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakflash
Find your own reasons. You've offered next to nothing but rampant questions, zero answers. That in itself is proving to seem to be more confrontational than you're probably intending.
And... David Blaine is the worst excuse for a magician. Ever. Great for spoofs though.
You can watch a child and they'll still either behave badly or might do something that is devoid of better decision making.Quote:
Yes !! Refer to the books.
Once again, what you're describing is a parent that's watching a child that's probably going to do more wrong than right before they "figure it out".
Let's face it. Humans are pretty damn bad at making decisions. Egocentric, greedy, stupid, warlike children. If there isn't a god, nature is one cruel mother****er with such a horrible, wasteful group at the top of the food chain with no social way to redeem themselves.
I'll pray that's not the case.
Gerbs, correct me if i am wrong: Now prayer is some kind of cummunication that we believe links us to God right? Or something that we do so that God listens to us. Now my question is why should we do a prayer and request God to help us when we already believe that God is watching everything and knows everything? Why should we ring up God and remind him about the suffering when he is already busy watching "everything" happen in his home theatre?
can we please end this thread here?Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakflash
i mean "communication".
Just two honest straight answers to my two simple questions and will end it there. Anyone?Quote:
can we please end this thread here?
Live your life, hey-ey, hey-ey, hey-ey....
deepak there is no such thing as a straight answer for your "simple" question. Its like trying to disprove that a tree in the woods makes a sound when it falls if there isnt anyone to hear it.
So you’ve reduced the probability of God existing to a 50-50; a flip of a coin. Surely, this would make you agnostic? That is, so long as you are unbiased on the matter. If you truly think that a theistic God (with all the moral baggage that comes with one) is as likely to exist as it is as unlikely, then why do you believe in the God you believe in (whichever one that may be), with all its prescriptions for morality, as opposed to Zeus or Allah? Assuming the existance of a deistic God is not quite enough; you still have all your work ahead of you.Quote:
But God, is there any evidence that he exists? is there any evidence that he doesn't exist? I think there's none for either side,
I can’t see how this is the case. Every major example I can think of (in the past 30 seconds) is contrary to this principle when it comes to matters of science (AKA experimental philosophy) & pure philosophy matters. An overwhelmingly salient converse example in my mind is Newton vs. Einstein. You can probably think of some things, but even so, I can’t see how you can explain away God as something which is simple. If you think the teleological argument of the Watchmaker is a good argument for the existence of God (the vast majority do, I’m assuming you do too, in fact I’d argue that it’s imperative for the belief in a theistic God), then you also assume that god must be more complex than anything else in the universe, indeed, he must be more complex than you or I, if he designed us. What you have created here (if not a paradox) is at least an intellectual dead end. You have then to explain away how God came about, yet that is impossible because it is a supernatural being. This aspect of the existence of a God shouldn’t be understated, because if he is indeed the prime mover, and is more complex than anything in existence, then how is it’s genesis more probable than the universe coming into existence on its own accord? You have all your work ahead of you still.Quote:
but also based on the idea that usually the easiest explanation for something is usually the correct explanation,
You can’t prove a negative. For example, you can’t prove the absence of bugs in a computer system. There’s no evidence that fairies don’t exist, but that certainly isn’t a good reason to believe in them.Quote:
There's no evidence that he doesn't exist
Because in every domain of discourse other than religion, the belief in pure conjecture is treated with utter ridicule. If you were utterly convinced that Elvis still walked the earth, would you dare prophesise his return to fame in a job interview, or indeed, in any conversation with a stranger? Such people are treated as delusional tomfools.Quote:
...why would do people choose to believe in God and not in aliens?
And therein lies some of the reasons why people actually do take that Leap of Faith and believe in the theistic God of their choosing. It has nothing to do with intuitive reasoning, and everything to do with Confirmation Bias, Motivated Reasoning, and various other cognitive mechanisms such as childhood-credulity, decoupled-cognition and reciprocal altruism, which were all once essential to our survival as a species. Religion hijacks these mechanisms, because people are afraid of the dark, we search for patterns and explanations where there are none, we want to survive our own death and we doubt what we don’t want to hear; that is, that the universe owes us *nothing*.Quote:
Even more, most of the explanations of the supernatural nature of God is contradictory. We can explain the behavior of aliens and UFOS better than the behavior of God...so, if you believe in God, and you're a bright reasonable person, I assume you also believe in aliens?
Why should I correct you? Seriously, I've said it too many times already; make up your own mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakflash
You don't believe? Fine. I will not be commissioned to make you believe. It's something I did for myself; I'm no better than you/
Prayer is not direct communication. I've stated it before; I've likened prayer to "putting good vibes out there"... meaning through will and intent, good things happen at a human level.
There is no "ringing up God". That's a childish way to look at anything religious. Perhaps my way is too zen for most to follow; however it works for me.
Read the books. Prayer is the only way to get your intention out there. You're just too damn stubborn to see anything otherwise. So like I said earlier... God doesn't exist.
Now. What did you do this week to help the humans around you?
It starts there.
fine and fine.
This week none. Last week yes.Quote:
Now. What did you do this week to help the humans around you?
Me and my friend were eating in a fastfood, we saw this poor man sitting by the roadside. When we were about to leave, we managed to buy a parcel of 2 'masala dosa' for him. He was so happy and excited he was in no mood or had time to even react, he literally jumped into the plastic bag.
And you Gerbs?
So again, thats a belief right?Quote:
I've likened prayer to "putting good vibes out there"... meaning through will and intent, good things happen at a human level
I am not asking anyone to give me the exact answer which you think needs a thorough indepth knowledge and reference to a million pages in books, just what you 'feel' in your heart, thats all i want. You dont need anyones permission to speak your heart, right?Quote:
deepak there is no such thing as a straight answer for your "simple" question. Its like trying to disprove that a tree in the woods makes a sound when it falls if there isnt anyone to hear it.
I know you have all tried your best to explain to me that there is no exact answer to this and i understand that. Also i really appreciate everyone from bottom of my heart for all your explanations.
Just tel me what your heart feels?
1) Assuming God exists, why should we do a prayer and request God to help us when we already believe that God is watching everything and knows everything?
2) Assuming God exists, If you do all the good things in the world but you don't believe in God, do you think this is a sin and you will go to hell?
If God was someone like that who never gives you ticket to heaven just because you dont believe in him, he can not be 'God'.
Donated two cellphones to the local battered women's shelter, donated food to the local food bank, gave toys to the local Salvation Army, gave time to a local hospice as part of the grief counseling I'm currently attending, and paid an elderly ladies power bill for this winter. That was this week. Next week, more toys perhaps to the local Shriner's since they give to plenty of the kids in the local burn ward and cancer clinics in this county.Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakflash
I try to give back wherever I'm at. I've dug ditches and wells while in Turkey, among other places that were not my immediate surroundings - my home.
You've never been told otherwise. Speak away; just understand that your tone is not friendly at times. Understand that.Quote:
I am not asking anyone to give me the exact answer which you think needs a thorough indepth knowledge and reference to a million pages in books, just what you 'feel' in your heart, thats all i want. You dont need anyones permission to speak your heart, right?
I've stated that you shouldn't assume that God does exist. It's not a necessary item in order to remain human.Quote:
I know you have all tried your best to explain to me that there is no exact answer to this and i understand that. Also i really appreciate everyone from bottom of my heart for all your explanations.
Just tel me what your heart feels?
1) Assuming God exists, why should we do a prayer and request God to help us when we already believe that God is watching everything and knows everything?
2) Assuming God exists, If you do all the good things in the world but you don't believe in God, do you think this is a sin and you will go to hell?
If God was someone like that who never gives you ticket to heaven just because you dont believe in him, he can not be 'God'.
Meh. Now I'm starting to feel like I'm wasting my time because I keep saying the very same damn thing over and over.
WOW. GREAT So a moderator God here in CL :)Quote:
Donated two cellphones to the local battered women's shelter, donated food to the local food bank, gave toys to the local Salvation Army, gave time to a local hospice as part of the grief counseling I'm currently attending, and paid an elderly ladies power bill for this winter. That was this week. Next week, more toys perhaps to the local Shriner's since they give to plenty of the kids in the local burn ward and cancer clinics in this county.
I try to give back wherever I'm at. I've dug ditches and wells while in Turkey, among other places that were not my immediate surroundings - my home.
yea me tooQuote:
Meh. Now I'm starting to feel like I'm wasting my time because I keep saying the very same damn thing over and over.
I believe in God and Science. Believing in God brings me peace, more than finding Science as a reason/explanation. When my late mum passed away in front of my eyes, my faith made me accept her submission and gave me the strength to recover from my loss. I could have throwed a tantrum, or created chaos over why someone so beautiful had to leave us so early, but my faith gave me peace.
So if I were to answer your question of does God exists? To me, yes - and only to me, for I am not answering for anyone else in this forum. I suppose my faith is too strong to be shakened, and as taught from a very young age, I will respect other religions, other beliefs and so far, life's been really good.
This I can't answer for definite. Its up to you to decide (after studying the respective religious context of course.) BUT if you must get an answer from me, and what knowledge that I have of, my answer is No - you won't fail to go to heaven just because you don't believe in god.Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakflash
Then again, if you don't believe in God, will you believe in Heaven or Hell?
None.Quote:
if you don't believe in God, will you believe in Heaven or Hell?
We are born like any other creature, we live, and we disappear. Can you imagine dogs, cats, snakes, elephants, rats, whales being in heaven (or hell)??
If dogs, and cats can not take up the responsibility of a sinner, and so does human(i believe). Just because we humans have 6 senses doesn't mean we have different concept of life and take the blame of being a sinner.
Folks, let me atleast "try" to prove that God doesn't exist.
Now why do we believe that "something exists". Its because we are able to either see it, touch it, hear it, or feel it. If not, all the above. But if something that doesn't qualify even one of the above parameter can be termed as non-existing. So in case of God its none of the above parameter.
Ok now I can hear most of you say God is not a "thing" to prove he exists. If thats the case then how do we prove something which is not a "thing" exists? What is an example of a such a thing which is not a "thing" other than God :)
Anyone?