I'm Norwegian and I have nothing against Islam

I think the most significant thing I read in these posts, is this:

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I would rather have a cartoon made of my "god" than have a gun pointed at me.

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That's explains it. You people are so afraid of death, and would not accept any alternatives. And that's obviously because, "nothing" is more important than living life in everyway possible. Nothing is deeply important, or should be died for, (or even cared about), just living and having all kinds of benefits and fun possible.

You're calling "mocking from anything, anybody, at any time" FREEDOM?
That's absurdity to me.

What are you living for, eating, drinking, working, marrying, having childrens... and so on for ever? By this philosophy, nothing should stop anyone from making just "anything" except maybe the laws of the country inwhich he resides, and these are relative.
Non sence to me.

That's not the case with us, Muslims, where many thing WORTH diying for as much as living for, why? Because we beleive there will be another life, IF we were good Muslims.
And NO, terrorism does not make us good Muslims, but defending our religion, our prophets (Not just Muhammad (PPUH)), our countries does, even if this would mean death. There is nothing to fear in Islam when you know there is a kind and powerfull hand with you.

And you call yourself the country of freedom. Give yourself a break, there are other people on this planet (someday you'll notice).

Freedom does include respect and responsability, along with freedom of thoughts.

Keep talking to each other. Ignore.

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Originally Posted by flipsideguy

You still haven't said anything about the IDF accounts I illustrated

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I don't have to read your garbage... I served for three years in IDF... did plenty of time in the Gaza Strip and West Bank. I saw what palestinians do to palestinians... do - you - want - illustrations??? :rolleyes: I would post some shots but this forum is g-rated.

How come the palestinian people rely on aid from the EU and the USA?? because the rest of the muslim world is busy oppressing their people in more inhumane ways than anywhere else... medival style and hoggin all the money to themselves.

I don't have to justify to you squat but to make you happy I've lived in the US for over half of my life and served with americans during my service. So yeah I have a spot in my heart for the us. Besides Israel is the only civilzed westernized country in the whole region.... by freakin' far. REMEMBER???

after reading newhive's post, everything is clear to me now.

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Originally Posted by gerbick

Their existence there is enough threat. The whole 1948 creation of Israel is enough to start these issues.

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and??? before that the mere existence of sunni's and shia was a threat???

or

the existence of pashtun and Hazara's in Afghansitan was another threat to themselves. and I can keep going and going and going. They always feel threatend and find conflicts amongst themselves.

Now it's Israel. Like Ask The Geezer says... Who cares anymore??? It's not like these people found themselves in conflict soleysince Israel came to existence.

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Originally Posted by newhive

I think the most significant thing I read in these posts, is this.....

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You can live and die for whatever you want. That doesn't give you the right to take others with you.

Not directed at you, by the way. Just your post didn't tackle the fact they were threatning others lives.

Can I interject with some facts that seem to be lacking from this conversation.

The UN is not "the *****" of the USA. It is "the *****" of the USA, FRANCE, BRITAIN, RUSSIA and CHINA. Read about the veto power each country had been given post WW2. The UN can not discuss anything without these 5s approval.

So the reason the UN does nothing in the case of Israel/Palestine is the US won't allow the UN to talk about helping palestine, and China and Russia won't let the UN even discuss helping Israel.

The US does support Israel, but at the same time they ALSO support Palestine and remain one of Palestine's largest providers of aid.

Also, Israel is not all jews, there are muslims living there as well. In fact a fairly large percentage of Israel's military force are muslims. So when you use Jews and Israeli's as synonyms its kindof ignorant.

One last thing, you have 2 sides to the conflict. The US has chosen a side. How can you be at all suprised that the US is on the side of a peace loving state, versus a state who now has a government whose soul reason for existence is to eliminate Israel.

(just for the record - peace loving state is used as the term as defined by the UN charter)

Anyway, just seems some people have been brainwashed to believe certain things (IE the Jews control the world) and haven't taken the time to learn the truth about the matter.

Wait wait....

Then who's supposed to do the banking? Does Palestine not think ahead?



I keed, I keed.

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Originally Posted by newhive

Freedom does include respect and responsability, along with freedom of thoughts.

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Maybe it wasn't responsible of the individual to publish those cartoons. What about the responsibility of Muslims? Don't you think Burning embassies is a bit irresponsible compared to publishing a comic strip?

Don't you think killing or threatening to kill someone is a bit more of an infringement on peoples rights than publishing an image?

It's not so much a fear of death as it is a respect and understanding for basic human rights and liberties that obviously are rejected by the Muslim Extremist world.

Do you have a right to publish a picture? Yes.
Do you have a right to burn somones house down? No.

Until you understand that concept, there are going to be major misunderstanding and conflict.

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There is nothing to fear in Islam when you know there is a kind and powerfull hand with you.

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First off, you don't KNOW that. Last I heard, you have to die to find out for real, and no one has come back yet to tell the story. Secondly, I would be sceptical of how kind or powerful that hand is. It seems to have left you on the bottom of the heap with nothing left to believe in but dying for any outrageous cause that some mullah tells you to. And third, try thinking for yourselves some time, instead of letting god or a mullah doing it for you. You might just see the light some day.

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you have to die to find out for real, and no one has come back yet to tell the story

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Oh, they won't, not in this life.

You just beleive what you see. That's it.

The kind Qur'an says:


In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.



[1] Alif Lam Mim.

[2] This is the book; in it is guidance, sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

[3] Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;

[4] And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.

[5] They are on (true guidance), from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.



Do you beleive I exist? I do, without seeing you, just seeing your words.

You won't even be able to see the back of your OWN head, ever, without a mirror.

Just examples.

Sounds good, just don't burn any embassies down.

mmmkay? :)

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[2] This is the book; in it is guidance, sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

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What does he say about all the OTHER books that have been written on this subject? Being a cynic, and yes, believing most of what I actually see, and non of what some 1400 year old book wants me to believe, I have to say it's outdated and so are the people who blindly follow it.

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[4] And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.

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I don't believe in 'revelation' as something sent from god. More likely, if I have a revelation, it's because I'm missing some essential vitimin or mineral from my diet, or ate some bad goat meat and my mind has wandered. If I were really to see something odd, I certainly wouldn't tell anyone about it, cause I'd be locked up in the loony bin.

After observing the antics of muslim, southern baptist, catholic, mormon and other holey rollers for a lifetime, I feel sad that so many people in this world are suffering from a mental abberation by believing word for word what some musty old book or some religious idiot with an agenda tells them. Just proves to me that the school system isn't working.

Since you've probably never believed in reality, maybe you ought to try it sometime before telling others that it doesn't exist. And here's a hint the muslim world might want to pick up on, nobody wants to hear what your god has to say. If he's real and has something to say, he should be perfectly able to tell the rest of us without any kibuttzing from the peanut gallery.

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Originally Posted by Adixx

and??? before that the mere existence of sunni's and shia was a threat???

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I'm just reiterating popular propaganda and reasons why the creation of Israel in 1948 is a problem in 2006.

But wasn't a problem when they actually shared the lands in 1048 or so. Or when Egypt offered a peace treaty and now that's being ignored by people.

I'm not going to go into the dynamics of that relationship, Israel and the rest of the Arab world, nor attempt to diffuse the whole zionism stuff... I'm not well-versed enough into it. Neither will I even attempt to make you believe that I know what exactly a Palenstinian is thinking about Hamas and how they don't recognize Israel, or how the Israelis don't recognize Hamas/Palenstine. Looks like a stalemate to me.

And the violence continues.

Because the land was created in 1948 and given to Israel. That's the popular belief.

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What does he say about all the OTHER books that have been written on this subject?

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In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

[1] Alif Lam Mim.

[2] Allah! there is no god but He, the Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal.

[3] It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Musa) and the Gospel (of 'Isa).

[4] Before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the Criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). Then those who reject Faith in the Signs of Allah will suffer the severest penalty, and Allah is Exalted in Might, Lord of Retribution.

[5] From Allah, verily nothing is hidden on earth or in the heavens.

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I feel sad that so many people in this world are suffering from a mental abberation

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I feel sorry for you too. serious.

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Since you've probably never believed in reality, maybe you ought to try it sometime before telling others that it doesn't exist.

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Who said reality doesn't exist?

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If he's real and has something to say, he should be perfectly able to tell the rest

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He actually did, it's you who do not want to hear. Quran is the ONLY book on Earth that stayed (and will stay) unslanted since it's brought down by Allah.

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[4] Before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the Criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). Then those who reject Faith in the Signs of Allah will suffer the severest penalty, and Allah is Exalted in Might, Lord of Retribution.

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Looks like your the ones suffering the penalty. A world of rocks and sand isn't exactly my idea of a nice place to be. Sounds like what hell would be like if it existed. Which is probably why you all believe the way you do, you got nothing to lose or even look forward to.

Well, that's not exactly true either. You all think the way you do because you never bothered to think for yourselves. You let some book or some bonehead with no more sense than a goat do all your thinking for you.

Isn't that a bit intolerant of any other belief out there?

How would you deal with somebody that doesn't believe in what you believe? It's just a simple inquiry.

ok, and I have to ask. What about Abraham? Isn't he the root of all of this anyway? He had a child with his wife and another woman, who was from Saudi Arabia, right? The Bible and Qu'ran as well as the Torah all have Moses, Jesus, Abraham. Yet they all say they're the "only religion"... ever thought they all have the same origin?

Anyway, religion aside... there just seems to be too much intolerance being preached and acted upon. This whole thing smacks of "an eye for an eye" to the tenth level.

Draw a cartoon, burn down an embassy. That's more like an "eye for a building"... not an equal exchange by a long shot. But freedom of speech is trying to be limited by one group, yet exploited by the other group.

All in the name of religion and some severe intolerance. The origin of these religous books can all be questioned. This isn't the thread for that.

This thread is all about the responses. And how it's truly over the top. Not equal. That's not too hard to understand. Now let's deal with that one topic first before adding more fuel to the fire.

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you got nothing to lose or even look forward to.

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Wrong. I didn't say that old, present or future Muslims are good in everyway that's not true, I always said "IF" they were good Muslims.

Muslims are in one of their weakest and worst period in this life, but not because they don't think like you (civilized people?), NO, it's just because they do not follow Allah guidance correctly (clarified by Quor'an and Prophet Muhammad).

And adixx..

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Besides Israel is the only civilzed westernized country in the whole region.... by freakin' far. REMEMBER???

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I'm not in the mood of loughing.

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How would you deal with somebody that doesn't believe in what you believe? It's just a simple inquiry.

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Let him do it, respect his freedom of choice, do not try to insult, offence, or mock of him...

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Originally Posted by newhive

Muslims are in one of their weakest and worst period in this life, but not because they don't think like you (civilized people?), NO, it's just because they do not follow Allah guidance correctly (clarified by Quor'an and Prophet Muhammad).

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I'm seriously curious what do you mean by this. First time I've ever heard this, and just curious.

I promise, I mean no harm. Just outright curious.

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Originally Posted by newhive

Let him do it, respect his freedom of choice, do not try to insult, offence, or mock of him...

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That's fair.

But wouldn't you say that the above quote about the "severe penalty" for not following the Qu'ran and Allah would lead to intolerance much akin to how the extremist Christians say "if you're not a Christian/Baptist/member of my church, then you're going to hell" type of statements that are oft reverberated in the media? (think Pat Robertson)

Just leaves too much room for interpretation and justification for a lot of the things that continue on in the name of religion, but are really in the name of extreme fanaticism at best.