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I might be missing the point completely but...
Flash games are not aimed at the same market as games you buy off the shelf in your local high street.
In my (very limited) experience the majority of flash games are played by people at work, bored out of their minds that need to kill some time.
They don't want 70 hours of games play, they just want a quick fix. The hiscore tables provide a target for these people to beat, this keeps them coming back... lunch time after lunch time!
As far as games, heck, I can do so much more, with even the simplest of compilers such as QBasic, with the DIRECTQB Library, (which I might add, has made qbasic much more powerfull then it ever was), amazingly fast as well with the help of EMS.
High-level programming lanquages are much closer to English, Assembler is a low-level programming lanquage, C++ is more of a medium-level programming lanquage by the way, seeing that it has features of both types.
Just had to clarify that, why, I have no idea, hehe
Also, I'm not making this to sound discouraging to those who want to sell there games, By all means, ask for a million dollars, hell make it an even 2 million, but I truely believe its a little foolish and nonsence to ask 1000x or so greater then its actually worth. You may find yourself being laughed at severely.
All well and good but can you make those games immediately available to millions of webusers?
okiedokies : IPX games don't cost $15000, but several millions !!!!! don't forget that. i agree that simple click on the baddies game won't cost this price.
i can send you a link of one of our game, but you won't can play it cause it's whole french. here it is anyways http://www.normanet.com/jo, another one is http://www.normanet.com/betagame
ho these are not the best flash game of course, but not that bad either.
btw : did you see http://www.banja.com already ?
[Edited by Akane on 10-04-2000 at 04:35 PM]
You misunderstood me apparently, I wasn't referring to the cost of multiplayer gamming, but only to clarify that these are very very very unlikely to be considered in flash.
Nice games, but I really don't see anything jaw dropping about them, I mean you can only move your mouse back and forth for so long.
For curiosity, I'd like to see someone attempt this in flash:
http://ec.neozones.com/projects.html
[Edited by OkieDokies on 10-04-2000 at 05:33 PM]
Okay! Guys, give your evidents now. If you have a $15000 Flash game, show it to us.
Okiedokie, the games you are talking about take forever to download even if someone can really manage to make them.
I strongly suspect that you are trying very hard to convince us that Flash is not good. And I suspect that that is because you cannot command this software. I met someone like you back in Hong Kong who commented a lot about Flash and turned out to be someone who tried his very best to learn but to no avail. Please show us some of your projects to let us know that you are not fooling us around.
The click-through rate of banners is about 1 to 3%. And ad companies are willing to play 5 cents per click. That means if a game sold for $15000 can generate 110000 visitors within five days, it can earn back the cost sooner than you expect.
Well all of Ultimate Arcade's games that have gone for close to that price are protected by NDA's. So they can't be shown.
The most expensive one that I can show is this:
http://www.commonmandesigns.com/baseball.html
It is an early version of a baseball game we created for Texas Instruments. It is a little better now but I dont have the newer version on one of my domains.
When all was said and done this fetched 6k.
Oakidokies, you wonder why games liek this command a high price? Because look at what it is advertsing. Multimillion dollar equipment. If the use of this game helps sell even one of those products then they will have made their money bakc 1000 fold.
Big companies have big pockets.
by the way, there is only 1 technology that I can think of that downloads relatively quick AND gives you full 3d control and the possibility of multiplayer games.
Wild Tangent.
everyone should check them out: http://www.wildtangent.com
Kick ass game.
wildtagent.com is sweet, but these games were not developed in flash, these are not flash games ok.
I'm not trying to turn this topic into a brawling match nor am I disrespecting the usage of flash, and as far as developement with this tool, I'd like to consider myself far beyond average...After 9 years of expierence with Assembly, Lisp and Prolog and 6yrs with C, 2yrs with C++ and Vax/Vms and Dos, I like to think that I know a thing or too, this may hardly have anything to do with the matter, yes I know, however I am in the midst of finishing up a website devoted to this, what I love as a hobby; as what I do for a living I'm just your average everyday slot machine manufacture, hehe.
Anyways, I think I'll be putting my opinions to a close now.
If I might add; perhaps a great deal can be accomplished with flash, anythings possible and I hope you make a fortune!
Thanks for sharing, God Bless you all!
Okiedokies, is neozone your site? If yes, then you really can make games. Maybe we need to take your points under consideration.
But I want to ask you something. Can your game be played online? Not downloaded and played on desktop but played via internet connection. And is it cross-platform compatible that Mac users don't have to worry?
Cross platform compatibility is the advantage of Java language and Flash player. And this is one of the reasons why online games are always written in Java or Flash. If you find any online games written in C++, please let me know. Remember, we are talking about ONLINE game here.
i know wildtangent ! thier tehcnology is impressive. but still to much bug =(
I'm replying to the messages from Okiedokie on the first page after my post. I just don't have the time to read them all.
Dude, A limition of a peice of software is only limited by the developers imagination and creativity.
Have YOU ever made a game?
Maybe instead of critizing those who make flash games for living, YOU should try to make a game that YOU think is worth 15 grand. And it usually takes a team of two people to make a really good game. The actionscripter and the illustrator/animator.
Finally, it's not JUST the game the client pays for, it's the fact that there are only a handfull of people that can do really good games in flash. It's suply and demand. Flash content is in HUGE demand right now. Everyone is doing Flash.
I'm just glad I got into it way-back-when ; )
Dave
For those of you doubting the complexity of games made with flash, check out the racing game at http://www.k1664.co.uk/beer/index.html
Anyway, it is not how complex the games are, but how fun they are to play?
Ben
FYI little ben,
that game was made with director, not flash
OkieDokies: Wake the hell up. This isn't about making the best games in the world, it's about creating little online toys and marketing gimmicks that corporations can use to offer something a little different than static webpages.
You may have 9 years experience with real programming languages, but you are obviously ignorant about A. Marketing and Business B. The current going rates for professional website development and C. That for every person who likes to play *real* games like Quake and is intelligent enough to get those games to work, there are hundreds of people who would rather just occasionally surf to a website and play something like Solitaire (these people include my parents, my grandparents, and little kids).
You're obviously the kind of person that thinks a website can still be created "for the special low price of $99!" and Windows took nothing more than a week of coding and a few icons.
I think you are seriously mising the point! Developing a (good) game in flash is no different to developing one for say the playstation. In order for it to be addictive and playable it requires the same formula that makes console games so good - a strong idea and the commitment to see it through. Now if you are serious about making a truely fantastic game in flash (one that would be indeed worth $15k) then you really do need a team of people who excell in different areas to make it work. For example, games that I have created (and sold for that matter) can be seen on http://www.dotcomcafe.co.uk/entertainment - i don't claim to have sold these for $15k+ and nor do I think they are worth that much - not in their current state anyway. However the website traffic to this site has almost doubled since these games have been posted and in turn that affects the revenue the site receives from banners etc. And if you're still not convinced and want to see a game worth $15k, then watch this space - I'm currently working on a title that I think might just shut you up once and for all...
Flash vs Playstation huh, very interesting. Me and few friends of mine here must haved laughed for about 20 minutes over your amusing comment towards a Flash game being no different to that of a Playstation game; utilizing the same imagination of creativity, but formulas? Ah, how about a cup of Java there to sober you up guy.
Theres not a game on this planet thats worth 15 thousand dollars if I'm hearing correctly, perhaps an actual acarde machine ofcourse, but, its not like someones gonna say, "Well, how about I just write you out a check here for 15 grand for that just so spectacular game of yours, hum de dum, de dum" now however you can make such an amount at a come back down to reality basis through the purchase of many a buyer, thats gonna have to be some frigging amazing game there, and in flash? BaHumBug.
Now as far as this so called game your making for $15k, (obviously its hear say) not only myself, but others as well, I'm sure you've brought forth a great deal attention, so you be sure to post a preview there asap huh. HaHaHa
The game host of Smash 'TV (old arcade game, you may be familuar with) "I'll buy that for a dollar!" Thats about what your flash content is worth. Ouch.
Show me a real 3D raycasting engine, and I might be willing to pay more. *And thats the bottom line*
okieman,
as i stated in an earlier post: a game is worth as much as someone will pay for it.
if i make a simple solataire game that takes me 3 days, and then shockwave.com wants it. they will show it for 3 months, they get 20millions ad impressions/month from games like mine. they make money, so i make money. they would gladly pay the small 15k compared to the bundles that they reel in. that is just one example.
jobemjobem, must you have that particular footer in every post? Makes it a little difficult to scroll in here.
Its like "Skeet Shooter" yes we know already...
By the way, would you be interested in selling that to me for 15 thousand dollars and 1 cent? haha
[Edited by OkieDokies on 10-17-2000 at 01:13 AM]
OkieDokies, check this out if you havent already,
http://www.3dgroove.com/
NOTE:
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Guys I would like to ask you not to be very harsh and personal...We did not have any flame wars here in Game Section. I would like to keep it that way coz the main fun is here and all of you proved to be a good people.
Tnank you for your understanding.
Mad_sci