Saddam Removal Plan

Quote:

---

couldn't the UN do something

---

I think you need to read the UN's charter.."Peacekeepers"

Also the UN is still waiting for SOME countries to pay their "annual" membership fees.

The UN has no charter to begin conflicts. The poor buggers are always the ones sent in to try and put things back together after the Big Boys have made the mess and left chaos and destruction all over the place.


Like Gerbik said, Castro is still there despite all the best efforts over decades....

You can win the battles, you cant win the hearts and minds.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by swampy
I think we're doing fine in the war against the evil saddam already, the continued trade blockade denying them food, medical supplies and clean drinking water should finish off the poorer elements of the country soon.

---

maybe, though the same tactics have not worked against Cuba. The people there don't blame their leader for keeping them poor, they blame the US for keeping them poor.

That is the problem with trade embargos, they only hurt the common people, not the elite and the rulers of these countries.

An embargo against Iraq just makes people less able to deal with their corrupt leaders and more filled with hate for the countries enforcing this embargo. Killing the poor is a sure way to earn the hatred of another generation. The poor have lots of children. Unless you can kill them all.

dp

Quote:

---

Originally posted by cyk


We should always proxy with NATO- it reduces resentment towards a single country and provides solidarity to whatever the cause may be

---

isn't NATO charter once of defence only at this time? I think there has been a lot of recent diplomatic moves to change that, but a lot of resistance from most members except US and now Russia.

dp

Quote:

---

Originally posted by david petley


maybe, though the same tactics have not worked against Cuba. The people there don't blame their leader for keeping them poor, they blame the US for keeping them poor.

That is the problem with trade embargos, they only hurt the common people, not the elite and the rulers of these countries.

An embargo against Iraq just makes people less able to deal with their corrupt leaders and more filled with hate for the countries enforcing this embargo. Killing the poor is a sure way to earn the hatred of another generation. The poor have lots of children. Unless you can kill them all.

dp

---

then maybe we should step up our policy of genocide ?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by swampy



then maybe we should step up our policy of genocide ?

---

i hope u're not being serious... that sort of stupid and insensitive remark really doesn't belong here in FK... I wonder how our jewish brothers and sisters will respond to that comment...

that kinda remark is as close to any prejudiced/hate remark as i've ever read

Quote:

---

Originally posted by phlegm_thrower


i hope u're not being serious... that sort of stupid and insensitive remark really doesn't belong here in FK... I wonder how our jewish brothers and sisters will respond to that comment...

that kinda remark is as close to any prejudiced/hate remark as i've ever read

---

:rolleyes:

Swampy,

Quote:

---

step up our policy

---

In that outrageous post, who the hell is "our" supposed to be ?
J

Interesting discussion.

I agree with some of you -- the trade embargos against places like Iraq and Cuba made no difference. These tactics did not weaken the leaders rather it weakens the people -- in fact it kills people. Have you seen how many Iraqi children die due to lack of food and medicine?

phlegm_thrower: I completely agree with your first statement. Sept 11 was not exactly surprising -- the people who did it did not do it for fun. The hatred is there. Where the heck did Bush's own definitions of "axis of evil" and "terrorists" come from???
USA providing arms and tanks to Isreal to wreak havoc in Palistine?
USA providing funds to IRA to bomb us British?

What is this? Where is the right and wrong? If USA had said "sorry man" or (even better) had tone down on their aggorance and threat to many countries then maybe there would not be so much hatred.

I mean seriously, if you went for a walk in the forest infested with black/brown bears and wolvies, naturally you have to arm yourself to protect yourself. USA is a big threat to everyone. They think they are above the rest of the world.

Before we continue with this thread, I must make clear that I am not muslim neither am a jew nor hate USA itself, I don't like them giving so much crap to other countries and watching them crumbling knowing fully well that it is their doing for their purposes.

There was an article I read not long ago, the oil companies in USA wanted to open a pipeline through some country (I forget which one) but would cost them too much. The best way is Afgastin (spelling?) -- the problem is the country did not want the pipeline to go through them. But now that "terrorists" are gone, they are now laying in a pipeline.

The thing with Saddam is just a diversion -- but where? Only they know....

Quote:

---

Originally posted by david petley

Quote:

---

Originally posted by cyk


We should always proxy with NATO- it reduces resentment towards a single country and provides solidarity to whatever the cause may be

---

isn't NATO charter once of defence only at this time? I think there has been a lot of recent diplomatic moves to change that, but a lot of resistance from most members except US and now Russia.

dp

---

exactly David, I was saying this outside the context of the topic but thats where our international involvement should be- in peacekeeping efforts not trying to further destablilze and ostracize the region.
Saddams no saint but I have no idea why Bush would want to remove him*- he completely oppresses the radical, fanatic Islamic movements (not that oppression is good , Im just saying he does it) has never launched any direct attack at us-just our interests-
its funny that we buy 30% of our oil from them but continue to want to destroy them as well-I guess they want to install some sort of puppet regime but thats whats most troubling to me is that they seem (like usual) to have absolutely no contingency plan.

*perhaps its an distraction from the fact that we cannot find Bin or its that both Bush's popularity is only high when we are at war

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tonytryout
Interesting discussion.


There was an article I read not long ago, the oil companies in USA wanted to open a pipeline through some country (I forget which one) but would cost them too much. The best way is Afgastin (spelling?) -- the problem is the country did not want the pipeline to go through them. But now that "terrorists" are gone, they are now laying in a pipeline.

The thing with Saddam is just a diversion -- but where? Only they know....

---

tonytryout ,

Yes - Bush was negotiating with the Taliban to build an oil pipeline- link

Quote:

---

Originally posted by jofta
Swampy,

Quote:

---

step up our policy

---

In that outrageous post, who the hell is "our" supposed to be ?
J

---

Both sadam and the UN / NATO

We are currently blockading trade of essential materials to Iraq, everything from basic medical supplies to water sanitising chemicals on the grounds that they could be used in the production of chemical and conventional weapons.

The depleted uranium shells we fired during the gulf war are causing birth defects in Iraqi Children. Thgis is being hotly debated (the Iraqis say they are the cause we are claiming otherwise).

We destroyed much of the infrastructure required to provide basic standards of living during the conflict, filled in wells with bulldozers, bombed most of the bridges and are currently denying the country the means to re build on the basis that it will enable them to prepare for war.

Sadam is committing genocide on the Northern tribes, most notable the kurds with various chemical agents such as sarin.

If this is allowed to continue there won't be much of a country left. As DP said the poorer factions will suffer but Sadam and his regime will prosper as the distribution of wealth in the country has never been democratic.

There has to be a balance between humanitarian aid and preventing the build up of arms and military equipment. It is not sadam who is currently suffering it is the ordinary people. The very people that the UN and NATO claim that need protecting from Sadam

repeating vietnam era CIA rhetoric about "hearts and minds" will also do little to assist the situation.

i read a line in a novel somewhere...

"don't worry i'll keep an eye on him..."
"yeah, but who's gonna keep an eye on you?!?"

well... noone is keeping an eye on USA... at the moment, they can just do whatever they like and everytime anyone question them, they just pull out the "Sept 11" excuse and polish it a bit... it's their Ace up their sleeve i'd say... and who's to say that it's really Osama's master plan?

here's another conspiracy theory... it's a fact that Osama used to be trained with US, so is it not entirely possible the US govt gave him something in exchange to a teenie little favour of hijacking a couple of planes? that could also explain why US hasn't been "able" to capture him in spite of all their spy technology... and yet "terrorist cells" has been uncovered in countries all over the world... could it be coz US already know where they are??

and wat makes it worse is people like Aussie prime minister John "Yes-man" Howard kissing ass to the US govt saying that Aussies will pledge their commitment in war against Terrorists with America and will support USA in declaring war against Iraq... what did the Iraqis has ever done to Aussie?

We're all doomed if we can't get better leaders next generation... one that won't sacrifice human lives for the sake of their political career/popularity...

HAHAHA VIETNAM... that's another US's blunders... the origin of US involvement in that war has ever eluded me... how many US troops died? and for wat result? with all the weapons superiority... US still went home with tails between legs... no offense to US citizen but your government's international policy SUCK THE BIG ONE!!!

Quote:

---

Originally posted by phlegm_thrower
HAHAHA VIETNAM... that's another US's blunders... the origin of US involvement in that war has ever eluded me... how many US troops died? and for wat result? with all the weapons superiority... US still went home with tails between legs... no offense to US citizen but your government's international policy SUCK THE BIG ONE!!!

---

glad you find the suffering of millions to be so humerous. There are still casualties resulting from the Vietnam war, there are thousands of tons of unexploded ordnance that are maiming and killing people, perhaps you could have a little chuckle at that ?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by swampy


glad you find the suffering of millions to be so humerous. There are still casualties resulting from the Vietnam war, there are thousands of tons of unexploded ordnance that are maiming and killing people, perhaps you could have a little chuckle at that ?

---

dude i wasn't laughing at that... i was laughing at US stupidity in getting involved...

Quote:

---

i hope u're not being serious... that sort of stupid and insensitive remark really doesn't belong here in FK... I wonder how our Vietnamese and conscripted US veteran brothers and sisters will respond to that comment...

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by swampy

Quote:

---

i hope u're not being serious... that sort of stupid and insensitive remark really doesn't belong here in FK... I wonder how our Vietnamese and conscripted US veteran brothers and sisters will respond to that comment...

---

---

hahaha nice try... try better next time...

all i laughed at is US stupididty in going to Vietnam coz if US didn't get involved in the first place there WOULDN'T BE any conscripted US veteran

i'll give ya 6 for trying,

Yes exactly. Why remove Saddam now? USA could have done that 10 years ago if they wanted to.

Bin Laden was trained by the Americans -- by definition, USA like other countries harbour terrorists. Does that mean we should bomb the crap out of their country? Does that mean we should stop them trading to and from other countries? Yes we should. But USA have the final say unfortunately. Not the UN or NATO.

Swampy: I checked out the link you provided -- that proves my point. For all we know, CIA probably arranged the Sept.11 to get rid of the former FBI officer (quite conveniently). There were also other reports (unconfirmed and denied by Bush admin) saying that jews (who worked at the towers) were asked not to turn up on that particular day.

The lies spewed by the FBI and Bush admin saying that minutes before "terrorists" hijacked the planes, they went to bars and drank alocholic drinks as well as paying for prostxxxxx services. That is strange considering they are muslims (that is if they actually were in fact arab muslims).

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tonytryout
Yes exactly. Why remove Saddam now? USA could have done that 10 years ago if they wanted to.

Bin Laden was trained by the Americans -- by definition, USA like other countries harbour terrorists. Does that mean we should bomb the crap out of their country? Does that mean we should stop them trading to and from other countries? Yes we should. But USA have the final say unfortunately. Not the UN or NATO.

Swampy: I checked out the link you provided -- that proves my point. For all we know, CIA probably arranged the Sept.11 to get rid of the former FBI officer (quite conveniently). There were also other reports (unconfirmed and denied by Bush admin) saying that jews (who worked at the towers) were asked not to turn up on that particular day.

The lies spewed by the FBI and Bush admin saying that minutes before "terrorists" hijacked the planes, they went to bars and drank alocholic drinks as well as paying for prostxxxxx services. That is strange considering they are muslims (that is if they actually were in fact arab muslims).

---

wasn't my link.

The conspiracy theory about the jewish workers not turning up for work is ludicrous.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by phlegm_thrower

Quote:

---

Originally posted by swampy

hahaha nice try... try better next time...

all i laughed at is US stupididty in going to Vietnam coz if US didn't get involved in the first place there WOULDN'T BE any conscripted US veteran

i'll give ya 6 for trying,

---

and I'll give you ten for being a xenophobic cretin.