The Dregs of War

Again thanks for the input. I definitely agree about the girders, and I've made them much more visible. I also think the poles need to be pointed out, so they have a kind of glow about them. I was worried it would look silly, but then again the whole game looks a bit silly so the glow fits right in, in my opinion.

Hello again!

I know it's been a while, but I was on holiday.

Anyway, I've started work on the combat. You can let out your frustrations on a yellow rectangle. Woohooo!

There's also a needlessly long blogpost attached.

The Dregs of War

I like it, although it seems to have the same kind of problem as the wall jumping, it doesn't detect the next button press the right way.

For example, if you were to punch fest the block, (a,a,a,a,a,a,a,) then it has a very nice alternating punch animation. (I really like it ^_^)


But in fighting games, on element is almost NECESSARY to make it a true fighting game. Combo attacks.


Punch, Punch, Kick, Punch. That's what I really feel makes platforming fighter games interesting, the different attacks strung together.

For some reason, if you try "a", then "d", it doesn't fire the second event. (It only punches.)


That's no fun!


other than that, I love that the yellow block, and how it reacts. When Dreg does his uppercut though I think there should be an increased knock back. (make the block jump back farther on a hit). The uppercut should have some effect as well as making the animations more interesting.


I look forward to seeing more updates!

Hello!

Well I've been working more on the game. I hope you'll find the way moves string together more fluid now, Xenelement. As for a better reaction when doing an uppercut, don't worry - that's next on my list.

The main new things in this update are throwing, and a new character... here he is:

http://mbeeson.co.uk/images/Thug.gif

Anyway, the game is here

As always, tell me of any problems, issues or things you simply don't like - all the criticism from you guys has been really valuable.

Awoogamuffin

Nice work again. I especially liked how the thug would flip his arms when thrown. You can almost hear him say: "whooooaaah". I wasn't so charmed with the throw. The reason is that when I run into the character and press throw, I'd expect the throw to be in the direction I'm moving in. At the moment I will run into the thug and suddenly my direction changes to perform the throw. Instead of that sutemi you could perhaps use a o-soto-gari (which should also be fairly easy to animate)? The sutemi could still be used if the player was standing still in front of the enemy.

I couldn't find a short clip of a jiu jitsu styled execution ,only judo, so I looked up the reference video I always watch before my exams. The main difference is the blow to the chin instead of grabbing the jacket. Since dreg is the shady kind of character, I think you're looking for a dirtier style.

At about 3:40 there's a frontal choke attack. Tori defends with a block, the blow to the chin followed by the o soto gari. You might also notice that the arm is locked under the armpit instead of grabbing uke by the sleeve, but that's just to make the transition to arm locks easier.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...HNTF-Abo89ygCA

An alternative would be a more storm/spear style attack: Ryo-ashi-dori. For the attack from the back you could look at kiri-otoshi. The dirty variant would be to leave the knee in ukes path and pull ukes spine into the knee. If you're happy with what you're using that's fine, I think it's a bit of a personal thing, as I always split my tachi waza into techniques I can use when we're moving backwards, forwards or to the side, so I know which techniques I have avaible given the situation.


On a more technical note: I found that when you walk to the right passed the streetlight you come at a house with a yellow platform sticking out. When I hang on the left side of it and climb up, Dreg falls through the platform a bit, or fails and keeps retrying. This might be related to the changing of gravityzones as I found walljumping to be harder in those areas too.

Wow. This is really starting to feel like something that wasn't made in flash. Nice!

Great job again, although I agree with TOdorus, throwing your target the opposite direction is kind of weird.

Are you sure this isn't something made for a console? O_O

also, what if you made the run and punch thing do something else, and made another button that could pick up the enemy and then make each button do something? Like:

Normal:
A = Punch, S = Kick, D=Lift Target

Target Lifted:
A=Throw in current direction, S=Smash on ground, D=Drop


Or something like that. I just like the Idea of being able to carry the guy around. Maybe you can also add something where if you throw him from higher up he gets more hurt? That'd be cool. Also he has to escape if you hold him too long of course.


Anyway, amazing game, I think I'd buy this if it came out on Nintendo DS. It's that much fun.

Cheers,

Dreg's #1 fan XenElement

Wow Todorus, thanks for that feedback - I've watched a fair bit of that video. Very aesthetically pleasing. I'm afraid a lot of what you said went over my head - I don't know the first thing about fighting (hence the silliness in the game). I like the fact that my little throw has a name. In any case, there's actually going to be a different throw if you hit A immediately after reaching him (or a little before him), a throw which maintains forward momentum, and the current throw will only be performed if Dreg has been running against him for a while... you'll see, I think it'll work out.

As for the platform bug, that was happening with all platforms - thing is, I just jump onto platforms when hanging on the ledge, so I haven't tried just climbing up for a while! In any case, the bug is fixed now, but the camera sort of jerks up when you do it. I'll sort that out another day. Thanks for reporting the bug - useful stuff!

Xenelement - indebted to you as always. Keep up the praise!

Ok guys!

Dreg has several new fight moves now and various bugs have been fixed (the camera moves up smoothly as Dreg climbs up a ledge now, for example).

Todorus, I hope you're not too disappointed by my amateurish attempts at fight moves - I'm sure you could explain why they're all nonsense...

In any case, I hope the fighting feels somehow more fluid and enjoyable now. Please have a look and tell me what you think!

Awoogamuffin

I like it a lot, and I like the fact that you can now do the strong throw by pressing "d" while running at the "Brute". But I don't like the fact that you have to run constantly at the enemy to toss him backward when you use the "a" button. I think you should just remove the strong throw from the "a" button and just let people use the "d".

I like the spinny throw, and I'm not even going to ask how you did the 3d effect. (HOW?)

I think that the next step in your fighting should be something like my example code below.

(Assuming that you're using AS3, if not, you get the general idea.)

Code:

---

//Arrays to hold the movieclips of various attacks

private var fistAttacks:Array = new Array();
private var footAttacks:Array = new Array();


//A timer set so that you can check chained attacks, or attacks that should get stronger the longer that they go on repetitively.

private var attackTimer:Timer = new Timer(500)

//Variable to hold what number attack to go to

private var attackCounter:int = 0;

private function loadAttacks(){

//Adding all fist attack movieclips to an array
fistAttacks.push(punch1)
fistAttacks.push(punch2)
fistAttacks.push(uppercut)
fistAttacks.push(spinsmash)

//Adding all foot/kicking attack movieclips to an array
footAttacks.push(kick1)
footAttacks.push(kick2)
footAttacks.push(spinkick)
footAttacks.push(smashkick);
}

//Then the thing that actually attacks


//A function to run everytime the "a" button was hit.
private function onAttackFist(){

if(!attackTimer.running){
attackTimer.start()

}

else if(attackTimer.running){
fistAttacks[attackCounter].play()
attackCounter++
}

---

My code is a wee bit dodgey, but I hope you get the Idea.

Once again, I'm amazed at how awesome this game is, and I wish I knew how to make something like this.



[Edit] Ugh, I just realized how absobloodylutley horrifying my code was. It's actually missing the part where the timer needs to restart, which should happen everytime you chain attacks in time. Ugh, I just hope you guys can understand what I mean.

Oh man... I feel so stupid.

I played Dreg for a bit, and I admit, (I'm sorry) that I didn't even read the blog post. I probably could have saved myself 15 minutes not writing that code if I had. >_<

Although now that I think about it, it would be kinda cool to have some attacks chain like above. So it wasn't a total waste.


As for what I think of the sweet moves... AWESOME!

I love the variety, and I think that the moves are MUCH more original than some crap 5 minute flash game on mochi.

I actually haven't played many fighting games, so when I first saw it, I couldn't tell that it was ripped off(That's a good thing)

I like the slingshot one as well, but it feels like dreg shrinks. I don't know if the animation is a bit smaller or somthing, but it just feels a teensy bit off.


I love this update, I can't wait till the thug starts fighting back!

Hello everybody!

I've started work on some (really, really stupid) AI, and decided to make it more interesting by sticking a second thug in there. So far, he only has one fighting move, but at least he runs up to you and uses it! He's no longer just a passive fool, turning the other cheek as you do horrible things to him!

So check it out here.

Again, thanks so much to all of you (yes, Xenelement, I'm looking at you) for all the advice, criticism, and praise!

Awoogamuffin

Oh man... That is AWESOME! I'm really feeling the fast paced action of this game! This RULES! I love hitting them around, watching the fat guys chase me, and I love how they are MUCH stronger than you with their simplest move, (In proportion to their fat bodies.).

Over all else, I LOVE fighting in this game, because of the acrobatics and camera switching. Because of these, Dreg can do some pretty weird jumps. My favorite thing of ALL to do, is letting the Thugs kill eachother! Did you implement that on purpose? Jumping out of the way at the last second and letting them pummel eachother is the MOST fun I've had in a video game in a LONG time.

Looking forward to whatever else comes in this game;

Xenelement



[EDIT] Found one glitch. The pole right above the starting point can be swung on, and after a few seconds the two thugs run together, and... Hug each other? Heh... The thugs should be able to knock you off.

Also, I think those guys are a bit tubby, so should run slower. ^_^ Amazing Game.

Good to see you're still working on this Awoogamuffin. I'm sorry to say that I dislike the combat as it is. There is a tendency to get pummeled, especially when the dudes beat you into a corner. I think Dreg should stand up faster than the opponents as the opponents can reach you at about the same time you get up, resulting in a very short reaction time to not get beaten to the ground again and again. And the game realy needs a block move ofcourse.

What you also may consider is cueing the actions of the AI. Let the AI first ready their punch by pulling back their fist, hover it for a quarter of a second and then punch. The player gets a cue that a punch is coming and gets the option to evade or block, or just be late and block it with the head.

Nice one on the AI following you correctly over a less then uniform terrain. How are you doing that: with waypoints? And how are you going to handle them chasing you up buildings etc, like in the animation?

Thanks for your responses guys!

I'm going to give the thugs more moves and stuff, so the combat is far from finished. I do agree with you todorus that there should be more warning before the thugs punch. So I've gone ahead and implemented what you suggested. I've also made it so that they don't start punching until after you have got up again, so you'll always have time to escape.

I've also made them a little slower Xenelement, and in the future I'll be adding functionality to have them hit while you're jumping/hanging on a pole and are within their reach.

As for your question todorus, they will not be chasing after you if you go jumping off into the distance. They'll stick to their area. Maybe later I'll have enemies that can chase you acrobatically, but I don't want to get bogged down in that kind of AI...

The way I see it, you play Zelda and metroid, and maybe the first time you visit an area you carefully dispatch all of the enemies, but later, if you're just passing through, you'll ignore them. I'd like that to be possible in this game too!

I'm not using waypoints, because that would add to to the work I'll have to do when designing levels. I've just got a bit of clever geometry at work that let's the thugs know which direction to run in...

As always, thanks a lot for your pointers and criticism!

Hello everybody (well, I imagine only Xenelement and Todorus still read this thread)

I've been working a lot these last few days. Now the thug has several new moves and few more nuances in his behaviour. Hopefully it'll be more to your taste todorus - after each attack the thug pauses a while, giving you and opportunity to escape / get him from behind (in a purely violent, non-sexual way).

The Dregs of War

Thanks again to all of you for all your advice and support - I'm sure I'd have given up on this project without it!

I love it! You added the ability to knock dreg down off a swing pole, with the thug's uppercut. I love it! I still look forward to seeing an enemy that jumps up and smacks you down though.

This is a VERY important notice!

First of all, still amazed, HOW IN **** did you make this???

Second, being an avid videogamer, I've already figured out the cheapest way to play this game.

Sliding attack FTW!

I don't know if you want to do anything about this yet, but I just feel that since dreg manages to get up so fast, and that anything you touch with the sliding attack gets knocked down, you just have to slide-run all over the place. Easy Peasey.

Maybe you could increase dreg's cooldown/getting up time? Or make the slide attack only knock the thugs back, because at this point I feel that it's just too easy.


On that note, cheers

If any idiot stopped reading this thread because he thought it was boring... RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWR!

I love this game!
Xenelement


[EDIT] Playing this lots more, and I just found the most fun way to kill the thugs. Jump on the swinging pole, and swing until you start going all the way around. then keep swinging, and let the thugs try to get you. It may take a few tries, but eventually they will start hitting each other! I absolutely love the fact that you can fake the thugs out. If you are fast enough with the keyboard, you can make them hit themselves. That is the one thing I have rarely seen in other fighting games. The enemies never seem to hit each other. That's not realistic!

Again, great job Awooga

Hello everybody!

Well the updates are coming thick and fast at the moment!

Anyway, I've added blocking, and now I feel the combat system is at a good enough state I can start worrying about other things.

You can read about its intricacies on the blog, but Xenelement, you'll see that the player can no longer just slide attack his or her way to victory - the thugs would get wise to such cheapness!

Again, thanks for all the feedback!

Awoogamuffin

[EDIT] by the way, I also discovered the fun of swinging around as the thugs hit each other. Unfortunately now, they end up just blocking each other instead...

Yes! MUCH MUCH Better! I love it! The combat REALLY feels like a fast paced fight, but you aren't spamming the same thing over and over! This is the first flash game I have EVER seen that doesn't have attack spams.

I find myself using the "d" key a lot, but I have no problem with it, because gravity shifts, jumping, flying kicks, sliding... I could go on forever! Each different attack has a really fluid feel to it!

One thing that I found; (Yes, Xen Element the Uber-glitcher)

Doge spamming. If you constantly hit the roll key, you can flip around so fast that you can actually run around without being touched. Although, in theory, this could be good if you want to be able to run through areas without being clobbered by the earlier level baddies.

I absolutely love fighting in this game! I could play it over and over, and it feels new every time! in fact, that's what I'm going to do now. Amazing job. Again.

Cheers,

Xen Element



[EDIT] Interesting weird glitch: It appears that if you run to the left, then press "up" at the same time, then try to jump, it doesn't work. Maybe the jump event isn't being fired off? (By the way, pressing up when jumping is a bad habit I have acquired from playing too much video games.)

Hello!

Thanks for the input Xenelement - as for the roll spamming, you're absolutely right - in that it's an easy way to avoid damage, but also in that I want the player to be able to avoid fighting if he wants to. Exploration is going to be pretty important in this game, and as you develop new skills new areas can be found, so if the player is just trying to get to a specific point, he doesn't want to fight everybody on the way.

As for the glitch, that's just a limitation of keyboards - they wired in such a way that sometimes they can't detect all the keys being pressed at the same time. I'd love to add gamepad support for this game... does anyone know if flash recognises usb input?

Anyway, the next update is really awesome - you actually have an objective. Kill all the thugs, then upload your score on my horrifically primitive scoreboard.

There's even a pong game I made earlier!

Anyway, be sure to tell me what you think...

Awesome. Totally awesome. You've actually inspired me to try making a platform world game like this, but I have no Idea where to start.

Anyway, I love that this game finally has a goal! Great job!

The two things I'd love to see in this game:

Health bars. It's kind of frustrating hitting someone over and over and not knowing how close they are to dying.

Falling damage. It seems to me that these gravity switches are a big part of this game. You don't need damage from falling while swinging, but I feel that a thrown person should take extra damage and deal extra when hitting the ground or someone else.

My favorite part of the whole thughunter experience, was the lone thug at the top right. There's a little switch there where you can stand on the ceiling of the thug. that's cool. the most fun part though is hurling him through there and watching him smash into the ceiling. I love that!

Amazing job, (AGAIN)

I'm going to look for a tutorial on how to do the walking part of a game like this.

Looking forward to the next update;
XenElement