aversion, you are the coolest.
Your posts are my favs by far.
just thought I'd let you know. :)
carry on....
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aversion, you are the coolest.
Your posts are my favs by far.
just thought I'd let you know. :)
carry on....
aww shucks... thanks :)
What a wonderfull question, that you´ve posted out !!!
I´m in a nearly same position, but slightly different.
I started to work with website production for some 2 years ago. So you might be a hell lot better than I am, bu that´s not the issue here.
I´ve already have an edu. as a typographer, so I´ve got experience with the relevant software appz in that area of branch. And then I started to learn flash and all the other software appz.
Ít´s a hell, trying to satisfy diffrérent customers, but one thing that I learned. Never to comprimise with your self. there is at reason why they asked you. Does´nt matter if you´re going solo or if you´re employed by a company. Cause there is a reason why they asked you. They asked you, because they like your way of doing things, they know the style, that you´r doing.
I have this problem. Whenever I try to talk a customer out of doing something, that diverts from their already made promotion strategy, then I get hell.
They want it to be so cool, and then they are ready to ditch their promotion material. and me as e typogarpher, I have a very difficult time with that.
I think it´s about time, that we as designers, should be more aggresive in that direction. The artistic language on the net, has become better and better as the years has gone. But there are still many sites, looking very bad.
I´m trying to make a group here in Denmark, where we discuss the form, and artistic language. The companies are´nt aware that they hvae to look at the net, as if it were a print job, but without printing. and ofcourse there much more possibilities. But we must keep the "red line" alive. Otherwise we will end as the loosers on that market.
I mean are´nt we supposed to be the experienced ones ???
We have to tell the customer what right and what wrong, right ??? Just because we have alot of opportunities, dose´nt mean that we have to use ém all.
That was my words for you, hope that you got something out of that. Hope that my english is understandable - if not ... i`m sorry
hey aria
im a designer that have made traditional graphic design for some years before i resently began on webdesign.
the low bandwith-old browser problem that you talk about is a challenge.
in traditional design you have a limitation of what is fysicaly posible-
the technologi in printing and bookbinding have some limits, and the describtion of a good designer is a designer who make a great looking thing that actualy is posible to produce.
no matter how good your idea is - its no good if only 5% can see it.
but in 2-3 years its over - then every computer is able to see everything
jonas
Quote:
Originally posted by Aria
ive been thinking recently following a presentation at work about our role as designers :
How do you feel by all the limitations that surround you : ie low bandwith, old browsers, slow CPUs etc.... do these frustrate you and make you feel that they compromise your creative work OR do you see them as tools, challenges that will help you streamline your work and message.
Its only now that this presentation came in that i actually sat donw and reflected on both my work and my role as a designer : what is it that we do ?
I think the core of what we do is to communicate , in clear and simple ways, rather than getting carried away with the latest and trendiest techniques and tricks out there. Its so easy to get attached and passionate with what a certain app can produce that we get to a point where we think that the client wont be impressed without these.
Has anyone been in a situation like this ?
Id really like to hear some views here from other designers :)
A
yeah but we'll still be moaning about the fact that netscape 12 doesn't support holograms as well as IE 23 does...Quote:
Originally posted by prometous
but in 2-3 years its over - then every computer is able to see everything
jonas
A mistake in your logic, Aversion - Netscape would readily skip version numbers 12-22 if it meant keeping up with IE numerically. ;)Quote:
Originally posted by aversion
yeah but we'll still be moaning about the fact that netscape 12 doesn't support holograms as well as IE 23 does...
Glad to see this post bumped back to the top.
On the clients promotional strategy issue :Quote:
Originally posted by egander
I´m trying to make a group here in Denmark, where we discuss the form, and artistic language. The companies are´nt aware that they hvae to look at the net, as if it were a print job, but without printing. and ofcourse there much more possibilities
The corporation that i work for commissions all their logo designs and re-branding requierements to an outside agency and its always with print in mind - then i have to work with these logos for online (sites and online promotions) and make the most of it which doesnt often yield great results and often involves lots of compromising etc!
good luck with your desin group in Denmark -- sounds like a great idea :)
A
I think of it this way: the 3.5 minute pop song was largely a creation of the recording time on 45rpm vinyl disc. But Elvis Presley, the Beatles and the Rolling Stones etc worked round the limitation pretty well .
TV isn't cinema. Flash isn't TV. The only time the limitations become obvious (IMHO)is when we all fall back on the most obvious things the medium can deliver.
How do you feel by all the limitations that surround you : ie low bandwith, old browsers, slow CPUs etc.... do these frustrate you and make you feel that they compromise your creative work OR do you see them as tools, challenges that will help you streamline your work and message.
it works both ways, tv isn't flash and there are many things you can do to create a more substantial user experience than afforded by the humble television.Quote:
Originally posted by Simon Croft
I think of it this way: the 3.5 minute pop song was largely a creation of the recording time on 45rpm vinyl disc. But Elvis Presley, the Beatles and the Rolling Stones etc worked round the limitation pretty well .
TV isn't cinema. Flash isn't TV. The only time the limitations become obvious (IMHO)is when we all fall back on the most obvious things the medium can deliver.
How do you feel by all the limitations that surround you : ie low bandwith, old browsers, slow CPUs etc.... do these frustrate you and make you feel that they compromise your creative work OR do you see them as tools, challenges that will help you streamline your work and message.
it is a challenge, limitations have always inspired people to create new directions, this is what marks the the best designers, they take a medium and with reference to culture and society expand upon what was possible before.
1st up, this thread is hitting up style! way to go or as A would say: [funny brit accent :D ]spot on![/funny brit accent :D]
lol
anyways
I don't really think that any creative person can be limited. that is first thing in my eyes.Quote:
How do you feel by all the limitations that surround you : ie low bandwith, old browsers, slow CPUs etc.... do these frustrate you and make you feel that they compromise your creative work OR do you see them as tools, challenges that will help you streamline your work and message.
As long as you are free of thinking and your brain works nothing can limit you, it is just that sometimes you are hindered to make or develop something right away maybe or you have to wait for the extra 256 RAM to be shipped in order to get your work done properly.
And being from "ugh! that Lot" (marketing) i think the bandwidth is also nothing to limitate us it is rather an aspect of the "target group". who is the site for and why will it deliver in broadband and not narrowband etc...
I mean whatever we create should have a purpose for someone who might want to visit. And that purpose must be justified by several things, among it the bandwidth, so I don't think it is limiting us either, maybe we all feel so right now but really you would not create a broadband site that you want housewifes on a slow 33 K modem to look at.
hm maybe bad example but you get the idea of what i was thinking of.
I really think that the development of broadband will give us more and more opportunities and chances to establish and prove ourselfves in the future, with braodband being spread more and more.
iCEBERG
Actually, I find that it's not the technology that limits me: The confines of it are actually a challenge.
What drives me insane are the limitations other PEOPLE put upon me as a designer.
Whether it's the corporate world raping anything and everything unique and different that they can get their hands on, or just the usual client that wants an entire 25-page site with all the explosions, for $50.
It gets very hard to design things that you feel go unappreciated. I often feel like I'm designing for spoiled 5 year-olds, who as soon as they get a new toy, want another one. A bigger, brighter, rounder, juicier berry.
It devalues my work, and is blatantly disrespectful to those of us who do this in order to survive.
As quoted in a recent Adbusters magazine- "I wanted to be an artist, but I became a designer instead."
I feel that the challenge of being appreciated and valued will ALWAYS be bigger than the challenge of technology, because the more you master technology, the more you are expected to fork it over for $0.99, or put me in a box.
Hehe - here's the dilemma. Technology is pretty predictable - it'll always keep moving forward. It's people that are unpredictable.Quote:
Originally posted by joyjam
I feel that the challenge of being appreciated and valued will ALWAYS be bigger than the challenge of technology, because the more you master technology, the more you are expected to fork it over for $0.99, or put me in a box.
It's why I have a personal site. :D
But this really is and always has been one of the challenges of commercial design - and every person here should add psychology to their resume.
Naturally there's a few basic rules we all know through experience - the client will never approve the first design (they want to feel like they're "getting their money's worth"), the client always wants more for less, etc.
An interesting point I gleaned form that post was the concept of the client seeing design trends and wanting to incorporate those designs (cheaply) - isn't that bad trend perpetuated within the design community itself, through "hero worship" and countless 2Advanced ripoffs?
What is the stop gap between inspiration and emulation?
part of the skillset of being a commercial designer is the ability to deal with clients.Quote:
Originally posted by CNO
An interesting point I gleaned form that post was the concept of the client seeing design trends and wanting to incorporate those designs (cheaply) - isn't that bad trend perpetuated within the design community itself, through "hero worship" and countless 2Advanced ripoffs?
of course they're not going to understand what they want or how things work, but your job is to inform and educate them, hopefully without having to be too patronising...
i also use this example from my own experience.. my client went to vegas for a holiday, when he came back he wanted to put the music from the slotmachines he was playing onto the site because, 'it made me feel good'... despite the fact that the site is in html and is a subscription media sales site. Can you imagine using that site several times a day with that music going???
but the point is that when it comes to commercial work we have to make of it what we can, we have to try to push the client to use the correct technology and the best design for the job.
with commercial work there is going to have to be a compromise when it comes to 'rip offs' if the client has a particular style or even site design in mind, but when you're doing work for personal reasons i see no reason to emulate...Quote:
Originally posted by CNO
What is the stop gap between inspiration and emulation?
when you are designing for yourself the only reward is self-satisfaction, if you're true to yourself then you will know where the line you draw is, you will know when you've taken something beyond its origins and made it your own. Again it comes back to the ideas delineated in 'the fountainhead', some peopel will always get satisfaction from presenting someone else's work as their own. As far as i'm concerned it's their own problems they have to deal with.
Hence the "every person here should add psychology to their resume," line. :DQuote:
Originally posted by aversion
part of the skillset of being a commercial designer is the ability to deal with clients.
And on that note, another inevitability of design is that the client will always be better at telling you what they don't want rather than what they do.
The golden phrase "I dunno - you're the designer" can be an opportunity to slip some creativity into an otherwise bland design - however, seeing as how you are making a "work for hire", every designer should learn the art of compromise along with drawing and Illustration skills. That is not to say that one should compromise their principles or ideals, but one can not be stubborn in respect to them either.
Of course, if you are not designing for a business but rather for purely aesthetic purposes, I would encourage one to flip all naysayers, critics, observers and appreciaters alike the proverbial finger. It adds to the mystique of being an "artist". ;)
its why we all have our personal sites out there whether we freelance or are employed fully by come corpQuote:
Originally posted by CNO
[B
It's why I have a personal site. :D
[/B]
Ive always seen my site as a place to experiment and do and try things i cant do with my projects at work -
It probably helps maintain the balance ! :D
A
you've seen it but we haven't!!! When's it opening?Quote:
Originally posted by Aria
Ive always seen my site as a place to experiment and do and try things i cant do with my projects at work -
:D
not that i can talk, i haven't foudn time to finish my business site yet
hey aversionQuote:
Originally posted by aversion
you've seen it but we haven't!!! When's it opening?Quote:
Originally posted by Aria
Ive always seen my site as a place to experiment and do and try things i cant do with my projects at work -
:D
not that i can talk, i haven't foudn time to finish my business site yet
i think ive already explained myself in another thread but hey ill have to do it again :D
can i do via email ? i want this to be a thread about design and not chit chat - ill remove any posts that are not part of the discussion taking place here
Cya
A:)
As bandwidth is concern, you have to consider your target. Are they innovators or laggards??
identifying your target is always the first step, any web site has to have a purpose and that purpose has to include your audience.. even for personal sites.Quote:
Originally posted by guysmy
As bandwidth is concern, you have to consider your target. Are they innovators or laggards??
The latest and greatest techinques are not only fun for me to implement, but also it seems the client would be appreciative of the fresh new look. I agree that getting stuck in the trap of thinking that the client won't like it w/o them is counterproductive, but isn't the most pride in the work where you have conquered another new design challenge and the client thinks it's innovative? It seems these two things would go hand-in-hand more often than not.Quote:
Originally posted by Aria
I think the core of what we do is to communicate , in clear and simple ways, rather than getting carried away with the latest and trendiest techniques and tricks out there. Its so easy to get attached and passionate with what a certain app can produce that we get to a point where we think that the client wont be impressed without these.
Has anyone been in a situation like this ?
Id really like to hear some views here from other designers :)
A
I'm not a true designer like you folks, but i really enjoyed this thread. Thanks. I'd also love an e-mail with a link to your experiments Aria. I've read a lot of your posts and would like to see what you're all about.
Hi, I really appreciated the posts in tis forum branch, i do agree a lot of things which have been said here, but i found most of the posts quite separated from what i believe design is about. I wouldn't define it as just a tool for the industry as it appears to be the case for most of the "posters". The act of designing involves more than just to satisfy the client. The end user doesn't seem to be the main interest for some peopls, I couldn't find better words to illustrate what my feelings about what i have read today than those words which i borrowed from adbusters.org:
"You come up with a stunning package design for a killer product. Your boss is pleased. The client is thrilled. Your design is entered in and wins a prize from the American Institute of Graphic Arts. The certificate is hung on the office wall for everyone to see. You're interviewed by design magazines and featured on websites. Your colleagues leave clever voice-mail messages of congratulations. You bask in the glory, and you get a raise. Your firm sends you on an all-expenses-paid trip to Las Vegas to attend the American Institute of Graphic Arts' America: Cult and Culture conference.
Bravo! You can now count yourself a member of the graphic arts community - one of five hundred thousand designers, creative directors and visual communicators around the world, all with a common purpose, all glorifying the virtues of consumer capitalism, all tripping over each other to kiss corporate ass. What do responsibility or ethics have to do with any of this? We're talking creativity here - giving order to information, form to ideas, beauty to expression. This isn't about politics. Let the "helping professions" change the world if they think they still can. They have their job, and you have yours. "
Never underestimate the power of design.
I don't mean to be offensive in any way, but i hope that our profession will one day become able to get more involved into what we are actually doing: creating the world we live in. Fil
Excuse my english.
i like your quote filyo
though i find the whole romantic notion of the designer as the tormented genius/artist who rises above the mundane and the status quo a bit too 'fountainhead' for my taste.
Youll find many designers saying that theyre part of a service industry and that what we do is mainly meeting the brief & the objectives as set by the client while ensuring that the work is innovative and original. Of course this leads to an industry where we all get together every year and give awards to each other and pat ourselves on the back but thats how it is .
I ve been reading this article following a conf where Jacob Nielsen presented and seems like Im growing fond of this guy (shock /horror)
Hes not going on much about flash as he used to, he d rather talk about all those ecommerce sites out there and the ones that bombard users with adverts and popups with yet more adverts -- sthg that i also feel strong about
anyway here it is:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...8167-2001Oct24
a
As a designer I see myself as providing a service in exchange for financial compensation. As such one seeks to know the customers needs, desires, budget and most impportantly, what are they attempting to communicate. With my experience as a designer I can offer suggestions, assist in priorities, outline limitations, give alternatives and produce a solution that realisticly not only meets the customers needs but one that is in the customers budget.
The part of the job above is one of the most important aspects of being a designer. If the client has understood that the whizz bang site cannot be viewed on a 56k dial up and he is prepared to go ahead then you have done your job.
The edge that you have as a designer, when it comes to being a designer is your ability to translate his needs into a Flash page and give him more for less. If you are skilled at streaming, used to PNG formats, can compress well and all the other bandwidth cheating devices then you are offering more for less. This goes along with the inventory of widgets that you keep. Adapting those design widgets for each customer and thereby reducing their cost and yours.
Lastly there is the actual design. The most important aspect is to be able to translate the message effectively. Not every business is going to say, 'I want something creative' (if only they did). An insurance agent will want something conservative, probably with a high dynamic text content. A travel agent will want searchability. Some will have specific target audiences and it is your business to know that audience and how your competitors are targeting that audience.
In the end the actual physical design, or the fun part, is only 20% of the job. The rest is knowledge transfer and customer service.
And saying 20% I am being generous!
everything is different, every second, every system, every connection, every taste
i think the point about
good design is to take as many components and put them in a mix unti you dont know whats in there (like flash for fast gfx, html for usable text, imageready for crisp fast loading images or whatever), but
it still looks (tastes:)) great and give you this "wow this is new" feeling.
the art is to compromise.
i personally love webdesing because i love to program
and i love to use new techniques, therefore the internet is the best place, other great ways to do art need more expensive material, such as print, filmmaking and so on.
why would man become a designer?
because he (thinks) he can do it better.
btw - aria you look damn good on this pool-photo
in the mod-squad! :)
Aria enjoyed the Nielsen article. I would love to make my site accessible to the visually handicapped, and offer translations (and I've tried by keeping most of my text large), but there is a limit to what you can include. And, I am not sure my site would lend itself to some sort of spoken alt text stuff for the visually impaired. As far as translation to foreign languages, to which ones do you offer translation (all of them)? Of course, I am speaking concerning a personal site, with limited space and resources. Most Flash sites tend to be high on the visual impact, with some sound. How do you translate a song?
Too bad it's not a perfect world, where the computers could automatically do all this for us. Maybe five years from now.
I'd really love to see more posts like these...
In fact, I think there should be an entire board dedicated to the philisophical aspects of design, as opposed to the technical.
But in response to the original post:
Designers are merely tellers of tales. And as such, it is not our place to change the tale, but to merely reproduce it in its truest form. This limitation(as well as others) is what comes with the territory, when you're telling someone elses story.
We should be so thankful...
Only in a perfect world, would there be no bandwith limitations, or technical frustrations. But in a perfect world, people wouldn't need designers, everyone would be able to tell their own story perfectly.
ok - here's an article i was reading yesterday :)
Quote:
"Design is not a therapy session"
Web designers need to grow up, leave their inner artist behind and embrace the challenge of usable design. [By Kent Dahlgren]
A long, long time ago, I made the move from taking art classes to taking Graphic Design courses. If you are a kid who really likes art, Graphic Design is where you direct your creative energy if you want your family to stop nagging you about your future.
But ... while my family may have been excited about my shift into a field that makes money on art, I wasn't. Not for a long while.
It irritated me that the instructors spent so much time on "non-graphical" elements of a visual experience. Coming from the self-expressive realm of art, I found this attention on white space and type and all sorts of other non-image tomfoolery lame and boring.
One instructor in particular was emphatic that the fruits of graphic design weren't for us; they were for the audience, which sometimes included business folks. Fresh from the context of art, this seemed hopelessly "sell-out." Which is a bad thing to be as a youth.
Then one day that instructor said something I've not forgotten. "Design is the art of effectively communicating a message while making the communication medium invisible." Herein was a challenge, an artistic one, that captured me.
In retrospect, this painful process of re-directing energy from self-expression in art to effective communication in design was a necessary stage in the development of a Designer (with a capital D). Which is why I think Design as a field is suffering an identity crisis.
Today we have legions of "designers" who have not taken this step. They lean way too far towards artistic self-expression, because too many of them have never been exposed to classical graphic design instruction. Or, more importantly, have never taken a step towards professional design maturity by realizing that design is not a therapy session.
And why should they? Photoshop, Illustrator, and a PC, a color printer, and some time makes one a "graphic designer." How can an employer that needs designers tell the difference? "I can hire a guy with a degree for a bunch of money, or hire this kid for far less. From where I sit their deliverables are mostly the same." The market is full of these cheap alternatives, cheapening the name of design.
A synergistic opportunity between usability and graphic design? I'd say. I think design needs usability, if only to define itself as relevant and important and different from those designers who last year were pumping petrol into lorries down on the corner.
I don't know who is manning the good ship Design, but the field is suffering from a bad case of dilution, and usability can help get that rudder back in working order. Thinking broad and strategically, I'd expect the messengers who have taken the most abuse (Jakob Nielsen, Don Norman, Jared Spool and the like) to strike a deal with Design - probably at the academic level, but it could also be managed at the grass roots. Call a truce, share some ideas, and everyone benefits: users, employers, and designers themselves, as they are forced to grow into Designers.
In fact, it appears to me this very process is underway, evidenced by the sales of Jakob Nielsen's book Designing Web Usability, and its use among the design community
Im looking forward to reading your views and comments on the above - do you feel any 'less of a designer' if you didnt go to artschool ?
the full article is here
http://www.shorewalker.com/pages/design_therapy-1.html
a
[Edited by Aria on 12-11-2001 at 04:17 PM]
interesting thread aria,
actually thats a point i thought of a lot of times
and i still cant figure what i am - i just stepped into
this art and expression thing and went completly nuts,
did crazy stuff and impressed many people.
then i got employed for good money, my boss told me i was
a good programmer but i had to learn a little bit more about graphic-design - "so what - i know photoshop very well!" i thought - but i was just wrong.
i dont think you have to study design (like going to a university or something) but you should have at least
one person that is a little bit more expierienced who tells
you what makes a good job and why.
so my boss teached me some basics and we discussed some
design ideas, i think its the best you can do to learn,
every curve of a car expresses something, every little
detail wants to say something, the sound of shutting
a car-door gives it a cheap or a neat feeling.
actually creativity cannot be learned, but proffesionalism
must be somehow. thats my opinion.
Interesting article, which raises some good points. However, I don't think useability and Jakob Nielsen's name always need to be said in the same breath, as I disagree with a lot he says.Quote:
Originally posted by Aria
ok - here's an article i was reading yesterday :)
Im looking forward to reading your views and comments on the above - do you feel any 'less of a designer' if you didnt go to artschool ?
the full article is here
http://www.shorewalker.com/pages/design_therapy-1.html
a
[Edited by Aria on 12-11-2001 at 04:17 PM]
As for art school, I think the things I found most valuable about my experience, even less so than the actual courses I was taking, was the experience of being exposed to enforced deadlines and the ability to be in an environment where I wasn't "the" artist, but instead "an" artist. In other words, I could learn not only from the instructor but also from the students around me (though when it came down to it I was measuring my work against myself, not theirs). Also the ability to get an honest critique was beyond the price of admission - especially in those classes where your skills were different than your classmates. And here's where we address useability. :)
The thing that irks me about people like Jakob Nielsen is that they seem to want to impose a codefied set of standards upon how to and how not to work. Far more important, I feel, is to perform useability tests amoung real users and not get caught up in "your vision" - either you are making something for users, or you're making it for just yourself (limiting your audience a great deal, natch. :D). The important thing is to escape an environment where people know and understand what you are doing - if I posted a site on here with glowing animated buttons and hooge type, everyone would know what to do. The typical user, however, would probably put their fist through the screen. That's not to say I shouldn't do things that way, but at least I have an idea of how people will react, without understanding that "well, it's really tough to use a pixel font in Flash...".
I think that content and design are inseperable - even the most abstract works have a meaning behind them. The key here is defining your meaning before pursuing the project - I think that is lacking in a lot of work being put out now. People are too tied up in "making cool Flash" than telling a story. Just going through the motions. So again, in all things, content is king. Storytellers have been around since the beginning of time - the medium might change some aspects, but at a fundamental level, it won't change how the story is told.
It's all about usability and expectation. If a site is easy to use and intuitive, people will stay, even if the content is experimental. If the user expects one thing (i.e. a quick, painless shopping or searching experience) and gets something else ( http://www.evilpupil.com ) then they're not going to like it, even if it's engaging and well thought out.
I still don't see the need for crappy navigation on experimental sites. Why make it opaque for the user? Why not give feedback on where they are, where they've been, and where they can go? Why not make all parts of the site accessible from any other part?
You can still have experimental content as long as the user understands what they're downloading, and how big it is. I see no reason to hide these things from the user just to be "experimental".
anyway,
design is art is the client is typography is whitespace.
sorry i arrived so late in the game, but i just wanted to comment on how great this tread is and and how well it realates to me.
first of all the similie of the designer (flash designer) to a swiss army knife, ... Brilliant!! i had some friends over the other day who are consultants and who do coding for a living, and when they saw my actionscripting and html books they nievely commented that they thought I was "just a desinger", how insulting!!! when you work with flash i believe it is imparitave that you know how it's working in order to have some sort of control over what you are creating (not saying i'm a expert at coding or anything, but at least i have a concept of it and can look at something and understand what is going on).
secondly, the reference to Once-upon-a-Forest also directly realted to me. more than a year ago i randomly came across that site (before I knew of flashkit) and that is what inspired me to learn flash. it is amazing. The people that are content to their blockbusters and their hum drum malls proablably wouldnt' appreciate it, it seems to be the american way, but whom ever desinged/ programed it... genious. cutos to them!! (wish americans would appreciate good design like the europeans sometimes)
Then, designer as a communicator... well that's what i do. I work in advertising and i'd be the first one to say that the design i do for a living is not cutting edge or something to drop everygthing for. But, it is the stuff I do and think on the side i feel has much more artistic merit. In the real world i feel designers have sucome to what clients need or think, not what the desigers think. it's a constant struggle (tough of war so to speak) between designers and the client. what you come up with is about somewhere in the middle. I applaude people in design and flash that come up with inovative designs and concepts. It is the people that do somethign inotvative and controversial that start the waves and trends that everyone follows. Perhaps it is the time that we break out of this postmodernism movement to the next new thing. I dont' know... just a thought... almost 2002 maybe it's time.
Trends appear to point to the fact that content is going to be more and more important in the coming years. With increased processing power and bandwidth, the consumer is going to being expecting a more active and entertaining experience on the net. I think that's where Flash is going to shine, but only if we continue to consider the enduser and their experience. So I think it comes down to a balance between innovation, usability and appropriateness to the message being delivered.
well said. :)
this is a very interesting article, http://www.alistapart.com/stories/bathingape/
i think it raises a lot of valid points, so many web designers seem to ignore the fact that design is an industry, that there are more mediums designers work on than the screen and that there is no god given right to create 'art' (decoration) with your design. People should be creating good design.
Aversion, that's a great article with a lot to digest. "Stylist" I hadn't heard that term addressed in a long time. Hollywood uses them consistently to market their talent, and they have a certain prestige and acknowledgement in that circle.
I think as the computer graphics field ages, there will also be more labeling and tiering in the field. Every kid with a computer in their room, will not feel empowered to declare themselves a "designer".
A designer should be one who creates in order to meet a need. A truly great designer would accomplish that with a certain grace and concern for staying true to the end product without throwing in extraneous material just to impress the masses. "Craftsmanship"--a pride in your craft and it's integrity, that's what made Eames era furniture and appliances so great. They got rid of the fluff and looked more closely at utility. Yet the designers also considered their market and constructed items out of materials that allowed for the items to be affordable. So, too they worked within constraints, and used these same constraints to come up with items that were utilitarian, fresh yet graceful, all without pretense.
Thanks for sharing the article.
i agree, so much web design is not design at all unfortunately...
design is a craft, far more than it is an art. Design has a purpose, for the most part a practical purpose, and web design consists of construction - information architecture. The way in which we present the content we are charged with is the measure of the designer in my eye.
there is certainly plenty of art in web design, but the art must come second to the craft.
Well, in keeping with my trend of raping other sites for their links and maintaining memes, here's a great article I found on Flazoom today titled:
Taking the Flash out of Flash
by Craig Kroeger
(Yeah that miniml guy. :p)
http://www.reservocation.com/essay_12_10_01.html
A lot of it is common sense stuff that we should all already know, but the article is a quick read, consise and well-to-the-point. Especially when (if you think about it), some of his contemporaries don't necessarily follow the basic principles.
there seems to be some prob here -posting this to show pg4
a
darn it- i thought i could start cleaning up pg4 from irrelevant posts when it went back to pg3 as it was before. Ill try again later
Posting to show pg4 *again* --sorry peeps
cheers
/a
it's a good article and people certainly need reminding about the basics, there is so much 'fluff' in design, the important thing for all designers to remember, as he says in the article is "form follows function"Quote:
Originally posted by CNO
http://www.reservocation.com/essay_12_10_01.html
A lot of it is common sense stuff that we should all already know, but the article is a quick read, consise and well-to-the-point. Especially when (if you think about it), some of his contemporaries don't necessarily follow the basic principles.
i hate sites with mystery-meat navigation, spinning logos and all that tripe, it is just so unnecessary... designers seem to be think that spinning flashing 'cool stuff' is more important than the basics of design, such as typography - which is so lacking on the web in general. I mean, how hard is it to name your links?? Why do so many designers feel the need to make you rollover a button before telling you what it does?? It's just pointless 99% of the time. Then you click a link and the menu disappears and there's this little button saying 'menu' which you can click on to bring it back :confused:
a study i read (and yes studies can be useful) found that 80% of 'average' users make up their minds what they are going to click on before moving their mouse, forcing them to mouseover every button before they can 'map' the options in their head is just bad design.
i don't want to rant, seems like i'm always ranting, but to me, all this 'decoration' should merely be texture, the function of the site should not be inhibited and the usuability should not be ignored. Usability is not a bad word, it's not something to be avoided, it's something to be learned and appreciated. Usability is not not jacob neilsen.
Texture is where you build up your 'look' and your atmosphere.
i'm not against innovation and trying to change the way users experience the web but you have to persuade them to do it, challenge them in a way that will interest or amuse them, don't expect to piss them off and get anything back. If you want them to try new things, make sure you reward them, make sure that you make it clear what they did and what the consequences were.
none of this applies to personal sites, no one should tell you what to do with a personal site, just make sure you have something to say.
i'll just repeat what i said in an earlier post:
Quote:
design is a craft, far more than it is an art. Design has a purpose, for the most part a practical purpose, and web design consists of construction - information architecture. The way in which we present the content we are charged with is the measure of the designer in my eye.
there is certainly plenty of art in web design, but the art must come second to the craft
[Edited by aversion on 12-29-2001 at 09:38 AM]