looking for 2Advanced.com Prices?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by nevil
hmmmm, a spokesman for 2Advanced studios, interesting, so many previously asked/unanswered questions can now be shed light on, if tpnovak is willing to keep up with it, at the moment he is doing great.

cheers

Nevil
http://www.theory7.com

---

Yeah, we remain pretty quiet over here. It's a lot of fun lurking about watching people who either love 2A or hate 2A - Nobody can say this industry doesn't have a wide range of opinions. It's hilarious to me, like trying to get two economists to sit down and agree on anything.

Our biggest issue is having the time to respond. For once, I had a weekend where I didn't need to work too much. In general, we get somewhere on the order of 1000 emails a week usually consisting of the same 6-7 questions... It's difficult enough just getting back to those folks.

We will definitely try to be a little more active... Thanks to everyone for bearing with us.

First I would like to express my gratatude toward you for taking the time and answering our questions. I like seeing the progression of 2A from your 2nd site to the 3rd and current one. I was wondering what your first version looked like. I dont think i saw it and i would love to if it was on the internet somewhere.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tpnovak

Quote:

---

Originally posted by nevil
hmmmm, a spokesman for 2Advanced studios, interesting, so many previously asked/unanswered questions can now be shed light on, if tpnovak is willing to keep up with it, at the moment he is doing great.

cheers

Nevil
http://www.theory7.com

---

Yeah, we remain pretty quiet over here. It's a lot of fun lurking about watching people who either love 2A or hate 2A - Nobody can say this industry doesn't have a wide range of opinions. It's hilarious to me, like trying to get two economists to sit down and agree on anything.

Our biggest issue is having the time to respond. For once, I had a weekend where I didn't need to work too much. In general, we get somewhere on the order of 1000 emails a week usually consisting of the same 6-7 questions... It's difficult enough just getting back to those folks.

We will definitely try to be a little more active... Thanks to everyone for bearing with us.

---

I understand, I too receive a ton of emails every week and try to respond to every single one, unfortunately theory7 doesn't have a team of people to respond!!

cheers

nevil
http://www.theory7.com

Quote:

---

Originally posted by sk8Krog
First I would like to express my gratatude toward you for taking the time and answering our questions. I like seeing the progression of 2A from your 2nd site to the 3rd and current one. I was wondering what your first version looked like. I dont think i saw it and i would love to if it was on the internet somewhere.

---

For the most part, we decided to retire the first site as it was much too "old school" for everyone's taste and was a little buggy with Flash 5. We have discussed posting a few static photos online (I think the spread in the first New Masters of Flash had pictures too). Maybe doing kinda a "History of 2A" - Funny, we never really thought we would get that many inquires for it. It's like, how many people really have a burning desire to go reload DOS 3.3 on a system, or to hook up their old Atari 2600 :) At least that was our logic, but not a day goes by that we don't get a request for v1.

Hmmm..
/me hooks up his Atari
WHAT? NO INTERNET!! Screw this.. :P

What about copyright....I have seen at least one site here at flashkit which was an exact copy of the 2advanced site and many more which are similar. What do you do in such cases.

Tony, it is very nice of you to take the time to answer all of our questions. And there are many, as you have indicated. I look forward to reading the contents of the interview that you will be conducting with Flashkit. Love you guys or hate you guys, people cannot deny the impact that you have had on our industry. Keep up the good work. You guys are amazing!

-Geoff

Sorry for dragging up an old thread.. but I was curious about 2A prices so I did a search. Anyway, my question now is... where's that Tony Novak interview with Flashkit posted ?

this is the best interview to a 2a member ever!:mrpimp:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rh71
Sorry for dragging up an old thread.. but I was curious about 2A prices so I did a search. Anyway, my question now is... where's that Tony Novak interview with Flashkit posted ?

---

you thread digger you..now we'll can get right back were we started!

closed! http://images.flashkit.com/board/vb_...lockfolder.gif

oh boy, resurrecting the dead, gotta luv it
:mad:

can you tell us the highest costing site 2A has ever worked on? Just the cost, not the company name or anything like that. How many people worked on that project?

kinda off-topic.

it's kinda difficult to get informed in places like south america, where you know, the internet is still being born :D so i just lov flashkit, where you can actually ask and talk with people like nevil, and tpnovak, whose work (either you hate it or like it) mean an influence to everyone (you know...you make a site, and you may want it to look like a 2a site cause everybody wants that and it's a trend, or you make sure your site hasn't any detail similar to a 2a site, cause everybody hates them, and noone wants to know nothing from them anymore).....

anyway, as it's time for questions here, i hope tpnovak can answer these:

1. what about international contracts, how you deal with that....what if someone from Pakistan would like to hire you, you just won't accept, or you still negociate?????

2. i think, and you know, 2a has impossed domehow the "techy" style. As i said, people may or may not like 2a, but still, everyone is looking at what are you doing, and you can influence a lot of people....i'd like to know whether you'd take the chance to do something that goes off of every impossed style, even if people start screaming "WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY DOIN NOW??????".....are you planning to do something that is 2A, but doesn't look like it (cause i believe a 2A site can be recognize as easy as you can recognize a painting by Dali or Picaso)......

Quote:

---

Originally posted by roro
this is the best interview to a 2a member ever!:mrpimp:

---

What? Where ?!?! Are you talking about what he's stated in this thread or the real interview he supposedly has already done with Flashkit ?

Eh... how come it says the the guy's username is "guest", but when his posts were quoted, it says "aversion". Doing some time traveling Av? ;)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rh71
What? Where ?!?! Are you talking about what he's stated in this thread or the real interview he supposedly has already done with Flashkit ?

---

I mean this one, I have read 3 or 4 interviews with Eric, but this is the best... I dont know where is the REAL interview with flashkit. :(

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tpnovak
"We are less expensive than Razorfish and more expensive than a Freelancer".

---

I understand we are more expensive than Razorfish, hence our current portfolio...

http://board.flashkit.com/board/imag.../2003/02/1.jpg
kazooma.com

Quote:

---

Originally posted by roro
I mean this one, I have read 3 or 4 interviews with Eric, but this is the best... I dont know where is the REAL interview with flashkit. :(

---

I've actually never done a "Real" Interview with Flashkit :(

Shane has though (PixelRanger)... (One of our Art Directors).

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tpnovak
I've actually never done a "Real" Interview with Flashkit :(

Shane has though (PixelRanger)... (One of our Art Directors).

---

well, this thread is kind of an interview, and it's turning out cool :)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by argonauta
1. what about international contracts, how you deal with that....what if someone from Pakistan would like to hire you, you just won't accept, or you still negociate?????

---

We only write contracts in US Dollars, so all foreign currency dollars must convert to USD, otherwise, we don't take the job. It's too much of a pain to get money out of some countries, nor do we want to deal with devaluation over the course of the contract.

Quote:

---

2. i think, and you know, 2a has impossed domehow the "techy" style. As i said, people may or may not like 2a, but still, everyone is looking at what are you doing, and you can influence a lot of people....i'd like to know whether you'd take the chance to do something that goes off of every impossed style, even if people start screaming "WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY DOIN NOW??????".....are you planning to do something that is 2A, but doesn't look like it (cause i believe a 2A site can be recognize as easy as you can recognize a painting by Dali or Picaso)......

---

We are at a point that we don't arbitrarily decide to go with Techy vs. Non-Techy; we simply work from our clients desires and their requests. However, for ourselves, our own work, we still go with what we love, so I wouldn't expect that the next version of 2A will be "Minimal" for example. (And I know the next question is probably... "When is the New Version of 2A going to be Released?"). :)

when is the next version of 2a being released? :D


i got a nicer question: what car you drive?


i'm asking cuse, you know....you can get to now a little bit about a designer....just for seing how he/she acts, dresses, what car he drives......i mean, a BMW is quite different than a toyota, from those kind of tastes, you can somehow know the personality.

It's like people say.....people tend to chose dogs that are similar to them.....fat people, a big bulldog, etc.....

anyway. i shut up now :D

heheh razorfish what a joke, I believe they were bought by a company here in salt lake called SBI :)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tpnovak
What does this mean?

---

Fixed Bid Contracts are contracts that are performed based on a list of specific tasks for a single price. There's no break down of hourly rates, and the client knows exactly what it's going to cost. Downside for you is that if you estimate $1,500 for the job and it takes you 1000 hours to complete - that's your problem, not the clients. The trick is to get your Statement of Work (Scope) down pat - to the last detail. So that you don't end up "upside down".
[/B][/QUOTE]


Oh god yes I can attest for that. Alot of clients have several items "pop" up out of no where, we need a content management system, SEO work, site updates.


A strong proposal and stronger contract are a MUST if you don't want to loose your ass on a project.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by michaeijd
Oh god yes I can attest for that. Alot of clients have several items "pop" up out of no where, we need a content management system, SEO work, site updates.

A strong proposal and stronger contract are a MUST if you don't want to loose your ass on a project. [/B]

---

Yep... We affectionally refer to this as "Feature Creeping" the requirements. The Statement of Work is everything, but it must be detailed enough so you don't leave anything to interpretation; while carefully keeping into consideration that a strong contract can easily become a double-edge sword.

Either way, the "pop-up" features need to be discussed as "in scope" or "out of scope" and if appropriate, apply a Change Order.

Anyway... Signing off for the night... Part III of Children of Dune is on Sci Fi now...

Fun to see 2A actually answer price questions :) I think I'm going to print out that list and ask my next client those questions :D

Gee this is swell. 2a's best interview by far. Novak, one thing real quick. First whats the deal with 2a's prodigy (anrdu pheonix) has he put in some hours on some projects or will he in the near future? Second I would love to see version one again, one of my favs. Third thanks again for answering all these questions its cool because all kinda different questions from all kinda different designers are being answered. Last, any tiny hint about propod?


Ohh by the way do you guys notice how many times in the flashkit forum someone will claim someone ripped 2a's for the smallest thing and whats your view on this?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tpnovak
I've actually never done a "Real" Interview with Flashkit :(

Shane has though (PixelRanger)... (One of our Art Directors).

---

Where's the PixelRanger interview? Anyone know?

Mr. Novak... I have one little question for you all:

Quote:

---

Position: Web Developer

At 2Advanced Studios, we have made it our mission to consistently challenge the ordinary. We're seeking to grow our small team with the addition of an experienced Web Developer who, with superior technical training and comprehensive knowledge of multiple programming languages, will be primarily responsible for developing client solutions from conception to delivery.

Skillset Required:

We are seeking an individual with exceptional programming skills in Macromedia Flash MX (ActionScripting), Microsoft Visual Studio (C#, C++ and Visual Basic), PHP, Java, Javascript, Macromedia ColdFusion, Perl, and MivaScript. Experience with the following advanced web technologies is critical; JSP, EJB, JDBC, SOAP, WAP, SGML, XML, XSL/XSLT, CSS, DHTML and WML. Database design and normalization for the web with Microsoft SQL Server, Oracle 9i, MySQL, PostgreSQL and Borland InterBase is a must. Position also requires a minimum of a BS or BA in a related field or equivalent industry work experience. HTML, with Macromedia Dreamweaver, Adobe PhotoShop, Erain Swift3D, Macromedia Flash MX, Adobe Illustrator and Macromedia Freehand is a must. Candidate must meet ALL of the above criteria for consideration. Salary commensurate depending upon experience. Please submit your resume by e-mail ONLY to [email protected]. NO CALLS PLEASE.

---

Is there ANYONE with such a skillset?! ;) :p

well yes, there are.....actually i think that's reasonable to ask for, not a good designer, but a damn good designer....and a designer that doesn't focus only in design, but also in programming, and maybe in music.....you know....for what i've seen usually graphic designers that know how to programm get to be better designers, cause they got a clearer view of things, when it comes to designing applications, or websites.

As a matter of fact, i think i'm going to apply now :D

Quote:

---

Originally posted by wouter999
Mr. Novak... I have one little question for you all:



Is there ANYONE with such a skillset?! ;) :p

---

Been discussed in other threads

I have a friend who sent thema dummy quote for a site to do with a bar in the UK.

8 pages

Built with Flash & HTML & ASP

3 - 4 Music tracks to be included

They quoted him between $55,000 and $60,000

Thats genuine as I was there when they replied

wow, that is a crazy skillset. maybe it wouldn't be if they wanted someone with only experience in some and strong skills in a few, but to ask for someone with excellent skills in all of them? i mean, some people specialise in c, c++ etc. for their entire career, not just as something on the side of being a designer. and if someone claimed he/she could do all that, id wonder, with such a amazing skillset what are you doing applying to a smaller design firm?

i guess its more of a backend developer application tho...because youd def need to be hiring someone out of a compu sci background, not design.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by wouter999
Mr. Novak... I have one little question for you all:

Is there ANYONE with such a skillset?! ;) :p

---

I think this topic has been overdone in a few other threads around here...

But, to iterate the key points:

1. Absolutely, there are several people here who have the skillset and then some. I still get at least 10 resumes a week that qualify on paper alone. A lot of stellar developers are looking for work in this economy.
2. This is a Development position primarily... Not a Design position. The design requirements are simply to augment the persons talents and more importantly to cut on iterations between design/development. But, at the same time, our developers perform Actionscript work for example... You have to be able to work in Flash proficiently in order to code Actionscript, correct?
3. Yes, a skillset like this does command a higher salary; it is by no means entry level.
4. We have managed through this posting to cut spontaneous resumes from 500+ per month down to a much more reasonable and managable number.
5. As a by-product, we are communicating that Internships and Entry-Level Positions are not available...

tpnovak

found some bugs in the taig extreme site ...

If I click one menu option, then change my mind and go for another while the first option is loading, it loads the first option, but the menu button on the 2nd option moves up and becomes inactive effectively cutting me off from that option

make sense?

once all sections have loaded it's fine, but on a high speed connection, I'd like to know exactly where I am at all times

small issue, did I miss something?

Cheers
G
ps could you take a look at my post
http://www.flashkit.com/board/showth...hreadid=435077

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tpnovak
I think this topic has been overdone in a few other threads around here...

But, to iterate the key points:

1. Absolutely, there are several people here who have the skillset and then some. I still get at least 10 resumes a week that qualify on paper alone. A lot of stellar developers are looking for work in this economy.
2. This is a Development position primarily... Not a Design position. The design requirements are simply to augment the persons talents and more importantly to cut on iterations between design/development. But, at the same time, our developers perform Actionscript work for example... You have to be able to work in Flash proficiently in order to code Actionscript, correct?
3. Yes, a skillset like this does command a higher salary; it is by no means entry level.
4. We have managed through this posting to cut spontaneous resumes from 500+ per month down to a much more reasonable and managable number.
5. As a by-product, we are communicating that Internships and Entry-Level Positions are not available...

---

Uh-huh, that sounds fair... Guess I'll have to start on my PostgreSQL then... :p

If you work in any web application development shop, you're 3/4 of the way there as far as skillset goes. It isn't impossible to acquire all of those skills as an experienced professional.

If you're a freelancer, it's much tougher to get your hands on all those tools in the first place... let alone have done any work with them.

I must admit, however, that it's one of the most demanding job requirement/descriptions I've ever seen. :eek: I wouldn't expect any less than $150k/yr as compensation. I don't think Mr. Novak will comment on that figure, but it's a feasible figure in my opinion. :p

that skill requirement set I think is something that 2a should keep to themselves, so many designers aspire to work for companies like 2A and this will serve to disapoint many, ok it might help with the inconvenience you have of receiving so many job applications but it it does far worse to the flash community, in my opinion. I feel inadequate when reading that skillset and I think that I am doing alright.

You could say it will inspire people to learn those skills but this is just not practical, for one getting hold of the software, buying the books, etc and secondly you could spend 2-3 years learning each of those apps/programming languages to a proffesional level.

One question to 2A, you seem to require some pretty advance databse and programming technologies and claim to have people with all of those skills, why do you continue to build flash hybrid sites? flash is far more capable in dealing with dynamic content and if you say it's because the client wants it that way, that is only because they don't know any better. I have just finished building a 100% flash forum that is equivelent in features and scale to flashkit forums, so I know that flash can do the job and in terms of allowing the client to update the site easily this can be done better in flash and allows the client to update the site from a web browser anywhere in the world. Give the client what he wants, yes, but show him what can be achieved and he will no longer want what he thinks he needs!

but anyway what do I know, I am only 1 and 2A have a small army of people surfing these boards who can make all my comments look stupid :p

lastly I don't want to seem like I am going against 2A as I totally love their designs.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tpnovak
With two recent hires, we total 10 people now.

---

:eek: :eek: I DON'T BELIVE THIS..I mean I've seen photographs of the company and by the look of it, I though there'd be like more than few hundreds of employees.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by nevil
that skill requirement set I think is something that 2a should keep to themselves, so many designers aspire to work for companies like 2A and this will serve to disapoint many, ok it might help with the inconvenience you have of receiving so many job applications but it it does far worse to the flash community, in my opinion. I feel inadequate when reading that skillset and I think that I am doing alright.

You could say it will inspire people to learn those skills but this is just not practical, for one getting hold of the software, buying the books, etc and secondly you could spend 2-3 years learning each of those apps/programming languages to a proffesional level.

---

Nevil, I completely disagree with this. As I mentioned it is a developer's position, not a design position. Therefore, if people in the FLASH COMMUNITY are feeling put out as a result of reading these requirements; then that is simply misplaced emotion.

At the same time, this is not about inspiration or responsibility to the industry, this is about our (2A's) business needs. I for one could easily meet these requirements and I can absolutely attest to the merits of what it REALLY takes for a person to achieve this level of proficiency. Estimating 2-3 years per language to reach an 'advanced level' is a bit ridiculous, when you consider the inherent overlap in development technology. Once you fully grasp objects, classes, methods, encapsulation, polymorphism, abstraction, inheritance, and the whole rest of the OOP foundation; while simultaneously learning business logic, code structure, loops, arrays, string handling, etc; the application of these cumulative concepts and coding in general really just becomes a matter of two key things on a language over language basis: Learning the Syntax and learning the appropriate IDE/Tools (i.e. Zend, Visual Studio, etc.). On the database front, very much the same reality. Once you fully understand Normalization, Triggers, Stored Procedures, Indices, (and so on...) learning the ropes and nuances between MS SQL, Oracle, etc. is fundamentally not a problem and definitely not a 2-3 year effort.

We have no need or desire to hire entry level/junior positions, yet this message hasn't totally resonated for some reason. A DEVELOPER with a mere 5-6 solid years of hand's on experience just doesn't particularly interest me right now. Moreover, if a list of job requirements posted on our website for a development position (or even a design position for that matter) has the overall effect of putting people out, or striping away their confidence, then frankly we have already weeded out the undesirables; and the posting is very much serving an important purpose.

My experience has been that to find the best, you need people that can rise above all else and meet a challenge head on. I would much rather have a team of people hell bent on exceeding EVERY challenge that business and technology throws at them. If you look at the requirements and say, "WOW, I'd have to work 12-16 hours per day for several years to get there" and at the same time, you are passionately driven to do so - Just because you love what you do - Then that is the person I want to interview. Those that can look at this job description and say, NO PROBLEM... Again, these are the people I want sending in resumes. Those that see NO PHONE CALLS PLEASE, and figure out other means to capture my attention... Oh, yes. Bring them on.

We aren't hiring on skill alone; it's about attitude, passion, making a good fit, energy, initiative, and good business sense. I receive a TON of resumes that blow the listed requirements out of the water, but there is so much more to finding the perfect individual. Given that the people we are searching for are all over the world, the cost of me flying one in for one of our 2-3 day interviews becomes extremely prohibitive; therefore our upfront due diligence becomes all the more important. Perhaps if I needed someone by tomorrow, I would post something a little varied (and probably wouldn't use our website to do so); but I'm in no hurry... I'm quite happy waiting for the right person to come along. And I won't comment on salary other than to say it is the last thing that I would make an issue for the right person. If one can proficiently produce in the time it takes three others; then is a much higher salary justified? Absolutely.

Quote:

---

One question to 2A, you seem to require some pretty advance databse and programming technologies and claim to have people with all of those skills, why do you continue to build flash hybrid sites? flash is far more capable in dealing with dynamic content and if you say it's because the client wants it that way, that is only because they don't know any better.

---

I wouldn't assume that everything that hits our portfolio is representative on the whole of all our work, website work today is only about 60% of our total production; I really wish I could share it all with you here (soon though). We've taken on several extremely complicated back-end projects over the past few years and will continue to do so. One such project, a Legal Document Imaging firm; With millions upon millions of pages and documents that they are sorting through, Flash would choke and die so fast it isn't funny (and it did in our tests). In this particular project we have requirements to create entire SQL structures totally on the fly, perform read-ahead 'fuzzy logic' searches for caching, build complex string handling, XML parsing and natural language search algorithms entirely from scratch and deal with a wide variety of legacy technology in the process. Very simply, Flash's inability to preemptively stop processing, makes an enterprise class application nearly impossible to architect at this point... And without the right individuals on a project of this magnitude, we would never achieve our delivery. Hence, our requirements.

Don't get me wrong Nevil... I do appreciate a good butt-kicking now and then, and probably need it. But, you should rest assured given our history (not 2A's history, but our collective years in business and technology), every move and every effort is absolutely calculated and probably has a whole lot more behind it. Did you catch Children of Dune on Sci-Fi recently? "Plans within Plans"...
Love that quote.

fair comments, I have to be argumentative sometimes and rarely am! and I am glad that there has only been a response from 1 2a member on this as you guys have gone from never posting, well one essay from eric every once in a blue moon to a total contrast of 3 or 4 of you jumping to the defense of any 2A targeted topic, it does go to show that although you always say the client is the one that counts I think you hold more value in the opinions of the flash community than you think.
Personally with the way that theory7 is going with the flash store the flash community has now become more important to me than clients!!

One point though, I didn't realise that it was stricly a developer position, so I can understand your point now, sometimes these threads are just too long to read all the way through so I must have missed that, sorry.