Flash critic to coach Macromedia (news.com)

I saw this news bit today

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci...00/2041040.stm
Web design 'causes confusion'

and thought it was interesting/applicable here. re: the article, I'd really like to have the time to have focus groups go through each of my sites and diagram what they thought they were looking at - I'm sure that it'd be interesting, possibly to the point of embarrasment. But of course, it's neither financially nor time-feasible, so you just aim to (hopefully) improve your usablity with experience; another (stating the obvious here) reason designers with more work are worth more than those with less.

Thanks for the link. Good to see K-State getting some press for something besides Engineering or Agriculture...

I think I have to come back to my biggest beef with JN is his view of homogeny==usability. I think that as long as a site is organized and clear (for content, navagation, and purpose), it will be usable.

That article definitely reminds all of us to think like surfers when we design. I don't think that it is 100% valid though to ask people if they can determine the organization of the entire site. The way most people use most web sites is they want to find a specific nugget of information (what kind of business services do they have, do they have any job openings, what is today's dilbert, how much is the new Palm, etc.) and not browse the entire site. As long as the primary "nuggets" are easily found, you have won at least the first battle of usability.

-monster.

PS - Another similar discussion here:
http://board.flashkit.com/board/show...hreadid=325130

Well, now Jakob is pretty much describing himself as the "savior" of Flash. Read at your own risk (not responsible for raises in blood pressure)...

http://www.pixelsurgeon.com/pages/in.../jakobnielsen/

And again, to make it clear, I'm all for usability, it's JN's ego that gets on my nerves.

-monster.

yes it is irritating when the guy is so right, but the message is lost by his charachter.

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Originally posted by OddDog
yes it is irritating when the guy is so right, but the message is lost by his charachter.

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I agree. Whats really funny to me with this article is the picture. Look closely at the articulation of his hand movement and it'll pretty much sum up what most of us think about anything that comes out of this guys mouth.

(More constructive posts to follow -after I take my medication.=)

I have heard Jakob complaining about so many web site and programs ... I agree about is bad character .. I mean the guy have some knowledge in usuability even if he can't aply it (visit useit.com)he still know a lot about usuability.

But why does he have to be so arrogant ... And why does he choose he's victims.. what i mean is that he write an article about flash beeing so bad ... so he clearly attack macromedia there, Then have you ever heard of Jakob complaining about Windows ...No don't think so... Is phd is for aplication not for web interface ... And still never heard of him saying anything about windows .. I think that he is just to scared to say anything about microsoft because oviously if he is the guy he pretend to be i should have notice the big usuability failure we have in windows... The first and so obvious is having to press start to turn off the computer ...

Well maybe he just want to stay in the web buisness...

But i had read something ridiculous and want your comment about this ...

Jakob said that with flash mx and is integrated components flash web site could finally have good score in usuability... I don't know about you but i think that flash mx components are Heavy and they take forever to load... So has he at least try the product .. or those Jakob confirm what i think of him ... He is just a normal old babyboomer that use other babyboomer stupidity in internet technologie to pretend to be an expert in something that he don't even understand... And of course american journalist take him as an hero because of is PHD.

I think Jakob should shut up and listen to the youngest who will and are the internet content creator and user. Yes maybe there is a lot of Babyboomer on the web that go to site like useit.com and read a complete page of text to get a realy litle of information .. But i think that internet with the network going faster and faster will became something close to interactive tv and Jakob will be consider as the one that would have like to stop internet evolution ...

What i think is sad is that there is so many designer that do web site with good score and usuability and will never get the credibility of it... And Then you have Jakob That can't obviously make a web site and get credit and recognition just because he has a PHD...

What i like to say to Jakob is start by beeing someone that don't think you know everything and do some well done web site .. From there i will begin to listen to your advice ... But for the moment for me your nothing else then a swindler and a Babyboomer illusionist saying

"I have a phd and can use big word, so listen to the doctor of usuability and you will navigate in peace ... "

So long Doc....

Does anyone know what his Phd is in? Computer Science or one of the classics, maybe? I dunno, but unfortunately, it seems that he is refusing to use his advanced acreditation to the true benefit of good.

Is it the advanced degree that give his opinions the authority? I'm sure there's thousands of people with doctorates who wouldn't dream about using their skills/knowledge to simply slag off other people's work, whereas this fella makes his bread and butter from it.

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He holds a Ph.D. in user interface design/computer science from the Technical University of Denmark.

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Taken from http://www.useit.com/jakob/.

For what it's worth, it took me about 30-45 seconds to find his bio and then I had to scroll down about 3/4 the page to find his "Professional Background." Trying to navigate his site to actually find a particular piece of information is not that easy in my opinion.

-monster.

PS.

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Additional high-resolution photos are available for download.

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--Give me a break.

Hmmm, interesting point. Wouldn't have been easier for you, as a user, to have a link on the front page 'Professional Background', but then, getting into the Nielsen way of thinking, there'd certainly be too many links on the front page. So, in essence, you lose either way. Too many links or too much scrolling.

Seems like Jakob's got this all wrapped up, 'cause any setup you choose, he's got a 'theory' to go against it.

Nice work, if you can get it (and if you want to be the center of some self-perpetuating storm in a teacup)

Thanks for the info, Monsterfx

to be fair to JN he always goes on about the importance of a search engine box on the index page to help users find the content they are looking for fast.

and using this search box i found the info in less than 30 seconds, and thats less then some index pages take to load.

i wish i had access to the usuability data that he does.

usability is important. JN is not.

get over it people

Hi,

I am - by no means - an expert in useability, so my opinions about useable (or perhaps even useful) sites may be quite naive. I do consider myself an expert in some aspects of backend programming and computer security, however. Now, if I created a website talking about server security issues and at the same time gave the impression that I might not know my job (say there were some db.inc file with my mysql password for everybody to read and play havoc with my files) - would that cause macromedia to hire me as a security expert or you guys to discuss that site extensively?
So what does this guy have that I am missing? Sure, I do not have a PhD in computer security ...

Musicman

i believe that what he has is hard data on useability studies. He has clients that pay him to put hundreds or even thousands of people infront of the screen and quantifies how they interact with the graphic user interface of a web site or closed LAN site.

thats the rub really. It is tough to argue with a guy who has hard stats to back up his arguments.

.02 rant

If Macromedia wants to blow some of their earnings on Jakob N, that's pretty much their problem, not ours (I hope). A phD in computer science is surely laudable, but in interface design????? Myself, I like to sit people in front a site in progress and let them work it. They tell me what they like and don't like, and with a little insight on top of common sense, I make adjustments.
Making a science of it reminds me of the advertising business, where things will get picked at, focus grouped and dissected until there's nothing tangible remaining.
PhD, my butt.

Forget that arrogant twerp, and just use your head.
It ain't that difficult!

I think the rapid evolution of internet technologies, both in authoring and online applications, makes it more likely that someone JN's age will become easily confused while surfing. I understand his frustration, and see how it fuels his self-righteous attitude.

Usability is all relative. What's "usable" for a teenager may not be as usable by someone fifty and over. We all know you have to approach each design with the end user in mind.

I know a few people JN's age, and they all display one common characteristic: they are afraid of change. We all are, but understanding this aspect of JN's "mission" and how it motivates him to (unintentionally) suppress the rapid evolution of the "web experience" will let you know where he's coming from.

We may someday find ourselves opposed to new, different technologies and experiences. Hopefully we won't be so bold as to voice our opinions under a self-raised banner of ultimate authority. If we do, we'll be amazed at how quickly we make enemies — especially if we're right.

My .02.

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Usability is all relative. What's "usable" for a teenager may not be as usable by someone fifty and over. We all know you have to approach each design with the end user in mind.

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I agree. I also happen to be forty-three years old.

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I know a few people JN's age, and they all display one common characteristic: they are afraid of change. We all are, but understanding this aspect of JN's "mission" and how it motivates him to (unintentionally) suppress the rapid evolution of the "web experience" will let you know where he's coming from.

If we do, we'll be amazed at how quickly we make enemies — especially if we're right.

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That's only an issue for JN and others who fear change, or lack of control over change.
And who says we'd be right if we took a similar stance?
Neilson is only right to those who relate to him.

Cheers. :D

its about why 75% of buyers start the process of online buying and then cancel the purchase, and how come some designs have a better buying versus canceling ratios than other sites.

that is very important. that knowledge is very valuable. I doubt that it is all commen sense. some is simple scientific hard data.

for example of all the airline sites the one with the best buy to cancel ratio is http://www.southwest.com

why is that. that is what i call adding value to the design process. and that is what the big clients are after.

You've got to agree though that if JN wasn't so self-opinionated and his own site was half decent most people would hold up their hands and say "Yes, this is the best man for the job"

But he isn't.

ok i am a bit surprised i am defending the guy. BUT he has on repeated times stated that useit is an EXTREME example of what he talks about. and that this extreme is not what he recommends to his clients.

and this hate relationship that the flash community has with JN is ssooooooo boring. who cares. i don´t. its more there a lots of people who i find tough to take. i just don´t crucify them in public.