me too...
Thomas Edwards
me too...
Thomas Edwards
Please Please sort this out.
Mike, surely this cant be a new problem? since Flash 4 I have been complaining to Macromedia regarding the speed of Movies in Mac compared to PC. From your replies in this forum it seems that you have never encountered this problem?? Is this a case of Macromedia sticking their heads in the ground? Im sure that Ive read about this problem within Macromedia's own FAQ. Sort it out Please
Also running a few tests yourselves on SWF's would easily reproduce the differences between PC and Mac.I dont think that people should have to send you examples to sort out a clear problem, the number of replies to this thread should make you see that you have one. Sorry for the rant
If Flash were a more standard plugin they would find themselves on more than just design sites and ads. I have a top 5 entertainment site that would work cleaner and easier as an entirely flash site, but cannot because of the inconsistencies between the way it works on different platforms. I'm stuck designing a Flash/HTML/ASP/Javascript creation only Frankenstein could love.
PLEASE fix your player for Macs.
Count me in. I have just posted a message stated that Macintosh sucks with flash but obviously it's not apple at all in macromedia stuffing it up. Apologies to apple and all it's faithful users.
Len
of course. Pretty please, improve it.
definetley considering I'll be working mainly on MACS in my new uni course
gets my vote http://www.url.com/image.jpg
I am an advocate for any improvement to the Flash player for the Macintosh systems. With Macintosh processor capabilities the player should at least function at par with other PC systems. It is a frustrating task to attempt to factor in all the unknown variables that comes with designing for, testing with the Flash Player for the Macintosh.
Any improvements would be appreciated.
Thank you for the consideration.
Eileen Martinez
Something MUST be done. I just switched to mac and many others are too. The mac is built for design so what's the deal with such a slow player?
Although pcs are entering the graphic design environment more and more; let's face it macs are a dominate force in the world of gd. Let's standardize the way flash works. My main complant and huge difference boils down to frame speed. My flash animations run like they are on amphetamines when played in the pc environment.
Please help us, all we want flash equality for all PC's and Mac's. I have a dream that one day Mac's and PC's will work hand in hand with flash.
Thank you
Hey all - I've started building a player-tester movie, you can check it out at:
http://www.conciousriddims.com/flashtester/
(requires version 6 player)
It basically tests 2 things, graphics (tons of mc's and graphic symbols moving on stage all at once) and the speed at which code can be run.
It may not be the ultimate test, but it's at least a solid benchmark that can be used to test player performance across platforms/browser configurations. I will upload the source file, as well as a projector for macs and an exe for windows if anyone would find them useful.
Here are my results using os x.1.5 on a 300mhz powerbook g3, 160megs ram.
ie 5.2:
High: 38.773 secs @ 7.3504fps
Med: 33.77 secs @ 8.4394fps
Low: 30.767 secs @ 9.2631fps
Code Score: 63
Opera is evel lower, around 6fps at high quality!!
The ideal times are 13.57 secs @ 21 fps
and 88 for the code score.
Hope it helps, it'll be good to get some numbers. If I should start a different thread with this, just let me know and I will. Just thought this would be a good place to start.
Psx
edit:
I just found out about the beta player - MAC 6,0,39,0
Same setup with new player:
high: 32.647 secs @ 8.7297fps
I am having a big problen with mac's flash player.
I agree with hundred percent.
Lallo
It makes it harder to balance the quality of our productions if the speed of the flash player is different on a Mac.
Lucky for me, I'm downloading Red Hat (Linux) right now :) Only 2 1/2 hours left
Great stuff Psychlonex, i'm doing a bit of video at the mo;, so i'll post later.
I put a thread in the CL to get some non-mac testers too...we shall see.
sjt - sounds good. We need exactly that, some numbers from some pc's. I was trying to edit my post earlier but no go.
Anyway, I tested a compaq presario laptop - 600mhz celeron, 120megs ram, winXP.
Netscape(7.1) was the fastest but ie was really close.
high: 19.452fps
med: 14.398fps
low: 20.719fps
code: 88 <-- perfect score!
Also tested some browsers on the mac, opera was the slowest to play it, with an average fps of about 6, maybe 7 on low. Chimera was the fastest, about 12-14 tops. That's about as fast as the standalone or running it "test-movie" style. The rest of the numbers I posted have been from Ie 5.2.
Omni-web wouldn't display it correctly. It did things I didn't think were possible with flash. It just stayed at the first frame, and I hit forward, and it went to the next, but wouldn't go past the preloader. WEIRD!!
Psx
Hi all.
Back when this thread first began, one of Macromedia's representitives (Mike Chambers) was involved in posting
several responses.
Originally posted by MikeChambers
Quote:
i have asked for simple examples twice in this thread. does anyone have a simple example that demonstrates the difference between the mac flash player and the pc flash player (and takes into account differences in system attributes such as processor speed?). if anyone does, please let me know, and I will send them directly to the flash player team.
mike chambers
[email protected]
In response to Mike Chambers requests I sent him a very simple example which clearly shows the difference between
both the PC and MAC Flash Player. He has assured me that the "Flash Player Team" is looking into this issue
using the files I have supplied. So hopefully we should all have a response in the near future. (Don't hold your breath though):D
Thanks.
I use both PC & MAC running FP6 and below are my "SUPRISING RESULTS" using psychlonex's flashtester.Quote:
Originally posted by SJT
Great stuff Psychlonex, i'm doing a bit of video at the mo;, so i'll post later.
I put a thread in the CL to get some non-mac testers too...we shall see.
MAC(SPECS)
IMAC OS 9.2 / IE 5.1 / 600Mhz / 1Gb ram
High = 14.676 secs @ 19.419fps / 85 score
Med = 14.477 secs @ 19.686fps / 85 score
Low = 14.228 secs @ 20.030fps / 85 score
PC(SPECS)
SONY VAIO PC / XP / IE 6 / 1.6Ghz / 512Mb ram
High = 15.246 secs @ 18.693fps / 80 score
Med = 15.104 secs @ 18.869fps / 80 score
Low = 15.138 secs @ 18.826fps / 79 score
No offense psychlonex, but this flashtester contradicts everything about the problem with player on MACS as you can see by my results.
In my case the MAC out-performed the PC with your flashtester, yet, with simple examples it does not.
Hey -
Good deal.
The tester tool wasn't originally built to prove macs were running slower, it was started as a way to provide at least a benchmark. I brought it about when I noticed people complaing about the mac player, and trying to benchmark it by going to complex sites and reporting how long it took to view the site. Some were reporting how long it took to download, etc.
At any rate, I decided we at least needed a way to get some numbers we could (fairly) accurately compare. I tried to focus on what slowed down the mac player without making it so heavy it bogs down everything you throw at it. I may have made it too heavy, in that the ideal frame rate is impossible. I reached 20.x fps with the compaq, while the g3 maxed at around 14.
I did notice an increase after installing the beta player on the mac, and performance was better under os 9, which I believe still has the older plugin. I'll have to double check.
Psx
Well for what it's worth...
DP 450Mhz 896Mb RAM OS 10.1.5
Flash Player 6.0.29.0
High:
35.175secs @ 8.1023fps
Medium:
34.181 @ 8.3379
Low:
32.594 @ 8.7439
Code:43
Hmm,
Psychlonex, maybe we should scrap these results and scale down the load on the player to show the results better.
I think alpha tweens of bitmaps are usually the most obvious to the naked eye.
Maybe a couple of those?
i am running os 10.1.5 on a B&W G3 400 with 192 RAM on a 2 Mbps dsl connection
on high: 19.193 secs @ 14.849fps
code test : 74
hi there.
be carefull with those benchmark tests!
a movie set to 21 fps will play with a max of 20 fps on mac (the bug!)
i suggest to make two movies, one for mac with 31 fps (will play with a max of 30fps) and one for win pc with 30fps.
also simplify the tests.
i made some tests for my own and found out that like sjt says the biggest problem is caused by setting _alpha of symbols other than 100%. when bitmaps are involved it really gets bad.
for example make a movie of about 700x400px, put a fullsize bitmap as background and then put a fullsize bitmap symbol over it and tween its alpha from 100 to 0%. or move a 50% alpha bitmap across the background and so on.
i also think that actionscript is not that big problem.
using this plugin v4 versus v5 actionscript test you can compare plugin v5 versus v6. on my system there's a big increase of actionscript speed in v6.
http://www.fatorcaos.com.br/flash5tests/speed_1swf.html
ciao
m
Sjt -
Sounds like a good idea. I'll see if I can add some more bitmaps and alpha tweens to it. The way it's setup now, it starts with a series of shape-tweens with some color tween thrown in for good measure. Then it has some actionscript that takes 20 circles filled with bitmaps and bounces them around as they fade out, then it starts over, so this is running continuously throughout the whole movie. Then It has a second tween over the top of the first, so we now have 20balls, 2 shape tweens, and some keyframe animation all going at the same time. I think adding a few more bitmaps with alpha might be in order, it's just a matter of where to put them. Also there are some other folks on some other boards using it as well, and I don't want to change it and have wasted their time!
Me2222 -
I guess I've misread the bug!! I thought I should use 21 for macs? I've been doing almost all of my stuff at 21 and it seems to be working well. When the mac starts to slow down, I know I need to lighten up on the alpha tweens and such. :)
So in theory, my movie should play at 20fps max on the mac, with the bug taken into account?
I don't really like the idea of having 2 seperate movies for macs and pc's - seems like more trouble than it'd be worth. I've done a few tests, running the movie at 20fps, 18, 21, 31, etc. I've noticed that my best fps is still about 12, regardless of which setting I use. It actually gets a bit lower the higher I go, like at 31, I get about 10fps.
-- I've added a bitmap alpha/motion tween at the beginning. I haven't uploaded it yet, I will upload it as a new file at this url -
http://www.conciousriddims.com/flashtester/index2.html
It's still at 21 fps. When running in stand-alone, and in chimera, without doing anything(start and finish) it stays between 20 &22. The image tween stays at about 8. Have a look at both if any of you have the time and let me know if you think the newer one is any better!
Psx
Also - some numbers from the first test -
Celeron 600 overclocked to 750MHz
458MB
WinXP Pro
IE6.0, player 6,0,39,0
-----------------------
Graphics test (quality high):
14.64 @ 19.467 fps
Code test:
83
IE6.0, player 6,0,29,0
-----------------------
Graphics test: (quality high):
14.487 @ 19.672 fps
Code test:
84
Mozilla 1.0, player 6,0,21,0
-----------------------
Graphics test (quality high):
14.082 @ 20.238 fps
Code test:
87
Mozilla 1.0, player 6,0,39,0
-----------------------
Graphics test (quality high):
14.017 @ 20.332 fps
Code test:
88
Well, be glad you have flash or even a flash player. I'm still trying to get Macromedia to port to linux.
a new beta-version
testing it tonight
http://tempest.macromedia.com/airwolf/
Username : betabits
Password : flex475
more information
http://radio.weblogs.com/0106797/2002/07/02.html#a162
sven.goewie
Hey - good call. I kept trying to edit one of my posts a few days ago to mention the beta-player, but the forum wasn't letting it happen. All of my tests have been with the 39 player.
This beta release is much improved by the standard of the test, but bizarrely in IE and Chimera, but not NN 7.0p1:
Player 6.0.39.0, original test (non bitmap-alpha).
High:
15.074s @ 18.906fps
Code:78
IE 5.2
High:
17.376s @ 16.401fps
Code: 76
Chimera 0.3.1
High:
36.224s @ 7.8677fps
Code: 40
NN 7.0p1
I can't figure this out, both NN and Chimera are branches from the Mozilla tree...could this be to do with quartz rendering? i'm not sure if NN has quartz enabled.
Or does Netscape use it's own built in player? (which would be nuts...)
[Edited by SJT on 07-08-2002 at 12:50 PM]
It is really frustrating when you have learnt some scripting and you start being proud of yourself and suddenly all that dissappears and takes the fun away of learning it any longer just because you find out: ooh it's not working with Mac and Explorer.
SJT -
I agree, in that the new player is much better. I've some more numbers: (recieved via email)
Powerbook G4 500MHz MacOS 9.2.2
Flash Player MAC 6,0,39,0
Using IE 5.1:
Graphics test, High, 14.645 secs @ 19.460fps
Code test: 85
Using Mozilla 1.0:
Graphics test, High, 16.765 secs @ 16.999fps
Code test: 73
Using Netscape 4.75:
Graphics test, High, 14.61 secs @ 19.507fps
Code test: 85
Seems to do being doing better in os 9 than in X. I'm lead to believe that is a combination of X's as-of-now slow graphics rendering. It's not hardware accelerated yet. 10.2 is supposed to take advantage of the graphics processor.
I'll try to get someone from one of the mac boards whose running the developer version to test it out.
freesoul -
Don't get too depressed. Check out the faq at the top of the mac board. At the very worst you'll learn alot of stuff on this project by getting it to work well on both platforms. Then you'll already know all of that on the next project.
or, you could just switch over to mac... then you'll know it'll run without having to worry at all :)
no speed improvement for me
mac g4 450 mp, os9.2.2, ie5.14
plugin 6.0.29.0:
quality high
15.481 secs @ 18.345fps
80
plugin 6.0.39.0:
quality high
15.427 secs @ 18.409fps
80
but what is more important with this beta is that it seems to have fixed a lot of bugs. especially the POST bug fixing is cool.
Good point. Masking device fonts I believe as well!
Can't complain about that.
Psx
Very good idea....
I usually work with 2 platforms.
But I would definitely like very much not to deal with a PC, coz I simply love macs....
so tick me in....
Count me in.
JasonTheNailBitingBandit
Definitely. Faster Mac Player=More Flash Developement We Do.
-Greyson Purcell
University of Iowa
--------------
btw, love Flash Communication Server! Keep it up Macromedia!
There are many issues which need addressing for the Mac and if Macromedia want us to abondon the Mac in our design then all they have to do is say so rather than leaving me with explaining to my boss that I cant do anything about the Mac's POST problems.
Check out the Player List or Pay for an entry here
http://www.mirrorfantasy.com/frame.htm
and you will see what I have to put up with.
You can blame it on Microsoft and Netscape and anyone else that you care to Macromedia, but at the end of the day - It's your responsibility to make sure that each browser is capable of running right. I'm getting sick and tired of getting headache off people at work.
Gavin Horricks
version 40 is up in the meantime ...
sven
ps check http://www.petitiononline.com/daniel1/
[Edited by snuifkip.com on 07-18-2002 at 03:37 AM]
Yes please
Kathryn Dawes
Need more speed
TiG4 Powerbook + airport + wireless future + flash plug in = major let down.
Help us Macromedia - you are our only hope.