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Just funny.
I agree it is a "rip" ( replace with whatever word you like).
But it also bugs me the poeple who go.
"Omg It's Blue. He frikin ripped 2a so bad"
"That line is the same size as in this guys site"
So I leave you with a message.
If you can't say anything nice. Don't say it at all!
If you learn to look, then you look to learn.
design for some people is a way of life.. they live and breath it. In this perticular field, because of the amount of technology and advice at the tips of our fingers; this allows for exposure of all various levels. One of the major problems is that this field of work is being flooded with people who call themselves 'designers' who have a slight grasp of the programing knowledge and abilities to produce a website. Tho, without the talent of a real designer the application cannot be anything more than code snipplets on a piece of paper. I think that one would find that some of the 'stars', as aversion called them, have some background in other fields of multimedia design, not just web design. Despite the fact that FK, UltraShock, WH, and many other forums receive daily visits from people who want todo this, but lack the skills and talent.
when a person knowingly copys of duplicates another's piece of work, then it is just as stealing from that same person's pockets. That website is an example of someone taking another's style and complete design method, and plainly skinning it -- to suit their own needs. He/She completeley skipped the design process because they found someone else's to use.
im not saying that the person who created this website is a bad person or that they need to be punished. someone created this for a reason. Maby they hope to make some money, or whatever -- it just isn't fair to those who spend countless hours in class or at home learning the skills to design something as nice as 2a's website. The creator of this site tried to take that away from them.
Ultimately, anyone can do anything that they please todo with themselves.. if they wish to post it here, they can.. no one will stop them.
The fact that this field of design is being flooded many uneducated newbs, that the professional, hard working designers don't like to hang around for all the newbs's crap. Their bickering and looking at their attempts to design something halfway desent.. or atleast eye pleasing. Another problem is that most of them won't take advice.. and any negative comments, they seem to retract back into their hole while defending themselves.
That is the reason why you will NEVER see me posting in the site check forum.. and is also the reason why i left for like 5 months.. i was sick of all the crap that i was putting up with.
The reason why we have such a problem with copying is because the internet is accessable to soo many viewers and in a splint second, thousands have seen your work. And the newbs, who don't know better and because their lack of knowledge, cling to that work and become consumed by it.. thus they create something like this... the internet is good and evil all at the same time.. we have access to thousand's of peoples ideas and opinions.. but one of the worst places to look for creativity is the INTERNET. Those who have a tendency to always to their own way have a much better chance of succeding.
Im going to stop know, its damn late and i've probably repeated myself about 3 times... LOL :)
edit: im not going to deny that their is many elements in that website that are of their own, they .. of course are modifications and altreations of the orig 2a site.. but netherless they are original.. now only if the original stuff outweighed the copyed --
Insignificant individual explains why trend occurs among kids:
I don't believe there is much to reverse the trend. Normal kids of my age are easily influenced by what they see. The question is, in my perspective, is why exactly does this so called "ripping" occur? Perhaps it is because young people seem to be amazed by these "cool" websites. For example, they look at 2Advanced, and think to themselves:
"Wow. That looks really cool. I want to make a website just as cool as that. Maybe I might even make some money."
The thing is, these people aren't real designers. They're just out there, frantically trying to create websites that they and their friends believe are cool. What they do not realize however is that creating "cool" websites has nothing to do with designing. These people do not realize web design to be an art. Basically, they go on the internet, find some famous site that has been proven effective in getting attention. Then they just use the ideas to fuel work that they believe is their own. Their final thought: "Yes! I've created something just like that cool site I saw the other day! Now I've got a cool site too, and I'm gonna be famous!"
Well, yes. That seems to be the truth. I'm not sure that my opinion counts or not... but....
I don't see this "idea stealing" among my classmates at my current high school (it's a sci/tech magnet school), but I used to see it a lot at other high schools. Alot of people got caught up in it. I suppose this trend isn't going to stop among young people. It is sometimes sad to believe that we kids do not learn. Or maybe it's just that the majority of us have not been exposed to the world as much as we need to.
When these people grow up, they still hold the same beliefs...
Regards,
Thomas H
Freshmen Webmaster of TJHSST2006
Copyright infringement? You have got to be kidding me. If this was Coca-Cola they wouldn't do ANYTHING because it's not illegal to take a layout (and this is pretty standard, quite frankly) or create similar preloaders.
If you're saying it's a rip based on the hi-tech "look", then I guess the Attik should be suing 2Advanced right about now along with about a hundred other companies.
Really, this "be original or die" attitude is what is amateurish here, not the people defending the guy. First thing you're taught in school is that everybody steals everything. Trends are quickly stolen and exploited. In an environment where trends are what clients want, of course it is acceptable to follow trends.
It's a well-made site that's going to impress a lot of people and turn a lot of people off. For me, it's typical of a lot of Flash sites which are hard to navigate and impossible to see (tiny images and type). Especially for portfolio sites, it makes sense to show larger views of pieces (even if they are just "thumbs")...
maby, that they want to create something that they belive is sooo kewl and they want attention that it resorts to copying.. its all about wanting to be recognized.. say that they did something neat. eh.. wonder why painters and illustrators don't have problems like web designers do..Quote:
Originally posted by Veniogenesis
Insignificant individual explains why trend occurs among kids:
I don't believe there is much to reverse the trend. Normal kids of my age are easily influenced by what they see. The question is, in my perspective, is why exactly does this so called "ripping" occur? Perhaps it is because young people seem to be amazed by these "cool" websites. For example, they look at 2Advanced, and think to themselves:
"Wow. That looks really cool. I want to make a website just as cool as that. Maybe I might even make some money."
The thing is, these people aren't real designers. They're just out there, frantically trying to create websites that they and their friends believe are cool. What they do not realize however is that creating "cool" websites has nothing to do with designing. These people do not realize web design to be an art. Basically, they go on the internet, find some famous site that has been proven effective in getting attention. Then they just use the ideas to fuel work that they believe is their own. Their final thought: "Yes! I've created something just like that cool site I saw the other day! Now I've got a cool site too, and I'm gonna be famous!"
Well, yes. That seems to be the truth. I'm not sure that my opinion counts or not... but....
I don't see this "idea stealing" among my classmates at my current high school (it's a sci/tech magnet school), but I used to see it a lot at other high schools. Alot of people got caught up in it. I suppose this trend isn't going to stop among young people. It is sometimes sad to believe that we kids do not learn. Or maybe it's just that the majority of us have not been exposed to the world as much as we need to.
When these people grow up, they still hold the same beliefs...
Regards,
Thomas H
Freshmen Webmaster of TJHSST2006
I agree with you here. But in this case, we can agree that it goes a bit further, no?Quote:
Originally posted by Nionicle
But it also bugs me the poeple who go.
"Omg It's Blue. He frikin ripped 2a so bad"
"That line is the same size as in this guys site"
Let me say this..my comments ..i tried to make General comments...not specifically about THIS one site except where I needed to. This is mainly about all the sites like it that creep up in our/my e-mail box every day... I get pixelranger rips every week...there are 10x as many 2A rips that flood thru every day. People say we should be flattered..but I disagree.
This phenomenon of quickly copying things should not be tolerated. The more it is..the more it will happen. This is MORE than about 2A..its more than about me.
Nionicle.... The same people who are quick to jump to conclusions about using the color blue and 2a..that seem to bug you....are the SAME junior members who are rampantly running around being Inspired. If you are tired of those comparisons..then you should speak to that crowd.
I'm sorry ..but in my opinion..i would rather be like Simon on "Americon Idol" I'm gonna call it like I see it and be bluntly honest...
This stuff happens in ALL mediums.. Print.. Paintings...3d... Sculpture...Television, Video it happens.... but it is soo much easier on the web to copy ..its SOO MUCH easier to hide it..because people probably wont see your site amongst the millions out there...and there are soo many young enthusiasts out there..who want a pat on the back..i just dont people should pat them on the back for some things... plain and simple..
I don't know about this, Veniogenesis. They are designers because they can do the work. They just aren't at the top of the field. They aren't the trend setters, they are the trend followers.Quote:
Originally posted by Veniogenesis
The thing is, these people aren't real designers. They're just out there, frantically trying to create websites that they and their friends believe are cool.
Ah my fault. 14 year old here doesn't use words too well. ;) Yes. I agree. Sorry about that.Quote:
Originally posted by gdstudios
I don't know about this, Veniogenesis. They are designers because they can do the work. They just aren't at the top of the field. They aren't the trend setters, they are the trend followers.
Businesses don't care about artists.
Businesses use up artists and spit them out.
Businesses are way into trends.
2Advanced is ripping off several who came before.
A design studio is famous for about 3 or 4 years, usually for a gimmick or happening to ride the wave of a new trend just in time to be considered one of the originators of the style.
Good design is simply appropriate. That's all it is.
Studios that last longer than 3 or 4 years are "classic" designers (and therefore ripping off all other classic designers).
There's not much new under the sun, other than increasingly difficult technology. Layout "grid books" are still sold, used and followed consciously or not by anyone who has studied design.
Trends are lame, but sometimes profitable.
Ripping is common. Designers and art directors typically have a collection called a "swipe file".
This is sad. Why do people like this design? Is it not for fun or the shear joy of creating something of your own, an expression of yourself? I am by no means a good designer, but I have fun with every new conception. I feel design should be about challenging yourself to produce the best quality end product you can. It should all be about creating something that you worked hard at, with passion. If you don’t love it, why do it? A rip like this, shows little creativity and I really doubt there was much fun involved. Who are we really trying to impress here? Please note that this is all my opinion and I could be way off. I’m just trying to understand these people.
2advanced... blah blah blah...
after seeing that someone responded to my first reply, and then the mention of 2advanced... its not even worth taking a look at the rest.
-Kac
Good feedback from everyone here, took a while to read.
Overall:
The online Interactive media industry (flash etc..), is suffering from several perspectives, mainly standards.
Flash Kit, others, are 99% amateurs, hobbiests, and 1% professionals.
Maybe because our industry is so fresh and new maybe otherwise, but the OVERALL problem is the attitude, work ethics and standard HERE have become mainstream.
Professionals?:
Unfortunate for Interactive Media, it is extremely easy for anyone to be part of, a lot easier than TV, Game Design, Print, Animation and FX design of which all have governing boards for standards, morals and rules. Professional people dominate all these other medias. Interactive Media does not have any of the professional control, quality, input, support which makes an attitude.
Flashkit is seen as the mainstream governing body if we like it or not, but with professionals consisting of about 0.1-1%, its a receipe to consume and spam our industry.
Solution:
Education, a governing body, a community that is similar to flashkit in awareness but with 99% professionals and 1% amateurs.
I cant change flashkit's members attitudes, but I am determined to be part of the organisation that can be seen as the governing board for standards in Interactive Media with an aim to influence and promote all forms of design and programming, educating and providing a haven for everyone here that will hopefully be considered a professional in our industry.
www.propod.com
David and everyone at FI, 2A and anyone else that is behind this.
Amen. I am a hobbiest, I have had a client in web design, and I don't feel that I am a complete amatuer designer. I feel that flashkit has boosted me to this stage... but once I'm past the newbieishness of design, I want to be able to find a place to post where professionals are there that can help and I can help them. Flashkit is set up for everyone, when in return it hurts the community. Maybe they should set up some forums where the users are regulated, almost like admin forums, but for regulated users.Quote:
Originally posted by FI
Good feedback from everyone here, took a while to read.
Overall:
The online Interactive media industry (flash etc..), is suffering from several perspectives, mainly standards.
Flash Kit, others, are 99% amateurs, hobbiests, and 1% professionals.
Maybe because our industry is so fresh and new maybe otherwise, but the OVERALL problem is the attitude, work ethics and standard HERE have become mainstream.
Professionals?:
Unfortunate for Interactive Media, it is extremely easy for anyone to be part of, a lot easier than TV, Game Design, Print, Animation and FX design of which all have governing boards for standards, morals and rules. Professional people dominate all these other medias. Interactive Media does not have any of the professional control, quality, input, support which makes an attitude.
Flashkit is seen as the mainstream governing body if we like it or not, but with professionals consisting of about 0.1-1%, its a receipe to consume and spam our industry.
Solution:
Education, a governing body, a community that is similar to flashkit in awareness but with 99% professionals and 1% amateurs.
I cant change flashkit's members attitudes, but I am determined to be part of the organisation that can be seen as the governing board for standards in Interactive Media with an aim to influence and promote all forms of design and programming, educating and providing a haven for everyone here that will hopefully be considered a professional in our industry.
www.propod.com
David and everyone at FI, 2A and anyone else that is behind this.
my 2 cents.
-Kac
Sorry if I'm getting a little off topic, but I was wondering what exactly distinguishes a professional from a amateur. I want to get a general feel for what is considered professional and what is not. It's hard for me to tell between the two these days.
Thankyou.
Venio
it'll be pretty hard to limit what goes on and off the net, because its so cheap. Compared to say putting an ad on tv, or creating a print brochure or book, it is incredibly less expensive. until that changes, bad design will still flood the net.
i would only hope that as the next generation of users becomes more net and thus internet design savy, bad design will recieve less attention.
one big big BIG advantage of actual art/design eductation is it really exposes you to so much more. I find that most of the "newbies" think that studios like 2a are the gods of all design (and im not trying to discredit them) but they're not. Look at print, book design, cd rom/game design, advertising and some of the big typographers and you'll see there is SO much more to design than just online presecnces. In general, most online design IS bad in comparison to the previously mention well established fields. In terms of usuablitiy, content, and sometimes some really nasty typogrphay, web design suffers the most.
btw nsnyder, interesting posts which really serves as a wake-up call to many of us (including me). Its disheartening, but pretty much true. Really, a lot of what you said is true for most commercial business types.
Money? whether or not you have been featured on k10k or in Cre@te? where you drink your coffee? good places to start I guess :DQuote:
Originally posted by Veniogenesis
Sorry if I'm getting a little off topic, but I was wondering what exactly distinguishes a professional from a amateur. I want to get a general feel for what is considered professional and what is not. It's hard for me to tell between the two these days.
Thankyou.
Venio
I'm a very successful professional and I haven't been featured anywhere. I think there's obviously more to it than that.
k10k or cre@te, NT, all of that is another story. These "wannabe designers" that pose in places like surfstation are another breath and another topic. The snobby portal of print designers trying desperately to make it as an interactive designer. Off course im wrong applying this remark to anyone that visits these sites, but this attitude comes out a lot from my perspective view.Quote:
Originally posted by qetret
Money? whether or not you have been featured on k10k or in Cre@te? where you drink your coffee? good places to start I guess :D
Had to get that of my chest :)
I dont think these people are 'wannabes' :confused:
Oh my god!Quote:
Originally posted by FI
Dont call your self a designer just becasue you can open flash.exe or photoshop.exe, as many of you do, your spamming our industry with crap!
How pretentious are you? Why do you have the right to tell people what they can and can't be? You don't, so get off your high horse and stope preching to the masses. Yes, FI is renowned as being one of, if not the best web design company out there, and fair play to you and your team for doing so, but don't come on here all high and mighty just because of that.
If someone who can use photoshop and flash wants to call themselves a designer let them - are you that much of an insecure person that you're scared of competition from a mere individual? Quite sad really!
As for the "your spamming our industry with crap"
It's not your industry, it's anyone's industry who chooses to work in it, again, who are you to dictate what is good and what isn't? Think that's down to public opinion, not one dictated by some 'geezer' who draws pretty animations a.k.a. you.
It's called 'thinking before you speak'
OK, SUBSTANTIATE THE ABOVE FACTS WITH EVIDENCE PLEASEQuote:
Originally posted by FI
Flash Kit, others, are 99% amateurs, hobbiests, and 1% professionals.
David and everyone at FI, 2A and anyone else that is behind this. [/B]
anyone can call themself a designer, but ultimately it is their OWN work, that will either place them in a spotlight or in the corner. A true designer lives and breathes their work. they wake up everyday, sit down at their computer and expresses themselves in ways that most people cannot understand.
it is the fact there is alot of crap in this field. due to the large amounts of people who want to get rich quick. That is it.. many probably feel that there is money to be made, so they become 'inspired' and resale someone else's idea in a cute different colored box. All for the idea, that it will make them money. It is those people, if uncontrolled will eventually destroy this field of work.
We have strict copyright laws about movies, music, art, video, posters, logos, why not web/interactive design? Where have the everyone's morals gone?
Just to be make it very clear for you:Quote:
Originally posted by Olli_Budworth
Oh my god!
How pretentious are you? Why do you have the right to tell people what they can and can't be? You don't, so get off your high horse and stope preching to the masses. Yes, FI is renowned as being one of, if not the best web design company out there, and fair play to you and your team for doing so, but don't come on here all high and mighty just because of that.
If someone who can use photoshop and flash wants to call themselves a designer let them - are you that much of an insecure person that you're scared of competition from a mere individual? Quite sad really!
As for the "your spamming our industry with crap"
It's not your industry, it's anyone's industry who chooses to work in it, again, who are you to dictate what is good and what isn't? Think that's down to public opinion, not one dictated by some 'geezer' who draws pretty animations a.k.a. you.
It's called 'thinking before you speak'
I am on no high horse, i dont think I own the industry etc...I dont have the right to tell people anything. If you carefully read what I wrote bar 1 line of text you would see its my opinion, just like you have yours. I am insecure about expressing my opinion at amateur filled boards such as this one, becasue its the amatuers that have stereotyped my opinion as cocky (highhorse) just becasue im from FI.
I urge you to interact with my opinion or statements from a dignified perspective without getting personal and stereotyping me because of who I work for. I feel strongly about this discussion, but try to remain dignified in my words. Its called being professional. Your feedback on this topic is more than welcome from a constructive and mature point of view.
Agreed with FI... he didn't bash anybody. I would never call myself a designer if I blatinly stole interfaces and changed a few colors/graphics and called it my own. This is an OBVIOUS rip of 2advanced... why would he choose to rip 2advanced? I have no clue, but if you don't see it you're blind.
I can imagine how much thought, time, sweat, and blood went into the creation of 2advacnes' site.... now this guy is coming in and using it on his own free will??!! It's discusting! FI should be respected, if he didn't know what he was talking about... he wouldn't work for such a great company.
Again, just an opinion.
dyl
Ouch. You certainly are harsh FI. I really don't know how to respond to this, only to hope that you aren't issuing a blanket statement about all FK'ers. There is a plethora of talent in the FK Community.Quote:
Originally posted by FI
I am insecure about expressing my opinion at amateur filled boards such as this one, becasue its the amatuers that have stereotyped my opinion as cocky (highhorse) just becasue im from FI.
Can you imagine how much time and effort it took for this guy to construct his 2A rip website? Try to look at both sides of the issue. Ripping can be a tedious process you know.Quote:
Originally posted by dyldebus
Agreed with FI... he didn't bash anybody. I would never call myself a designer if I blatinly stole interfaces and changed a few colors/graphics and called it my own. This is an OBVIOUS rip of 2advanced... why would he choose to rip 2advanced? I have no clue, but if you don't see it you're blind.
I can imagine how much thought, time, sweat, and blood went into the creation of 2advacnes' site.... now this guy is coming in and using it on his own free will??!! It's discusting! FI should be respected, if he didn't know what he was talking about... he wouldn't work for such a great company.
Again, just an opinion.
dyl
now let's all hope this individual is happy
with his "sitecheck"!!!
interesting thread BTW!
More than interesting, this topic has unfortunately consumed the FK Community. How many nasty threads have popped up about this exact subject?
to be honest i think its useless to participate these kinda threads! heeee a *2a rip* .. *no its not*.. jeughhh (is that a word?)
i personly could careless anyways if you copy 2a..
waste of my time to pay attetion to it...and if you feel the urge to rip ****.. well this kinda threads is what you get..
later studs!
Okay. I agree with the statements. :) Now what I want to learn, is how one can be distinguished as a professional and not an amateur. From what I know, most professionals start their lives being amateurs. I might be wrong though.
Is it because they have degrees in art, design, and that sort of stuff, or is it because they have a real license and/or company? To put it in simpler terms, if an amateur wishes to become a professional, what does he or she need to accomplish?
Thanks,
Thomas H
I dont intend to be insulting or anything of the like, just honest.Quote:
Originally posted by gdstudios
Ouch. You certainly are harsh FI. I really don't know how to respond to this, only to hope that you aren't issuing a blanket statement about all FK'ers. There is a plethora of talent in the FK Community.
There are over 400,000 members right...well im guessing 1% of these are talented to a professional degree based on being a visitor to FK since the day it was launched.
I hope people here see my overall point, not my personal opinion about 99% of people here of which I would consider amateur. I have full respect for amateur designers, I am an amateur too in many ways but I have design morals and my goal is to educate new designers, amatuers, hobbiests, even professionals to acknowledge and work by design morals. I have little respect and tolerance for those that break the rules. (what rules?)
**** non-believers..if you think your stuff rocks.. fine!!
Salvator Dali was kicked out at almost every school cause
they thought his paintings sucked well..you know the rest!
and if your clients are satisfied..cool..cause thats your main goal..
they don't know **** about 2A, FI...
remember you design sites for clients NOT for other desinger eyes..
the rest is up to you!!
Ah, finally a bit of humility from you. ;) I've been waiting. The fact here is that the judgement of some as amateurs and others as professionals is subjective at best. I think you'd be surprised if you knew how many of the 400,000 members are actually working fulltime in some professional capacity. One thing we can all agree on is that you and Shane are design professionals. This cannot be disputed.Quote:
Originally posted by FI
I dont intend to be insulting or anything of the like, just honest.
There are over 400,000 members right...well im guessing 1% of these are talented to a professional degree based on being a visitor to FK since the day it was launched.
I hope people here see my overall point, not my personal opinion about 99% of people here of which I would consider amateur. I have full respect for amateur designers, I am an amateur too in many ways but I have design morals and my goal is to educate new designers, amatuers, hobbiests, even professionals to acknowledge and work by design morals. I have little respect and tolerance for those that break the rules. (what rules?)
It’s not like having a manual to become a professional long distance runner. You have what it takes or you don’t. It's up to you to decide weather you think you have what it takes or not to become a professional. If you think you can do it then work towards it and get there. Only you know what you are capable of achieving if you work towards it.Quote:
Originally posted by Veniogenesis
Okay. I agree with the statements. :) Now what I want to learn, is how one can be distinguished as a professional and not an amateur. From what I know, most professionals start their lives being amateurs. I might be wrong though.
Is it because they have degrees in art, design, and that sort of stuff, or is it because they have a real license and/or company? To put it in simpler terms, if an amateur wishes to become a professional, what does he or she need to accomplish?
Thanks,
Thomas H
Well that’s just the way I see it. I would like to think that I can make it somewhere in this industry, I think I can make it because I believe I have the foundation skills to expand on and get somewhere. Maybe ambitious, but I’m past the newbie stage now when I 1st had a go at this and went “oh I can do this for a living” and at the age of 20 now I’m thinking of my future and what I want to do with myself, and at this age if I wasn’t sure in myself I would get somewhere then I wouldn’t still be working at it, I would be looking into another job.
The reason I said all that bout myself is to answer you question, you just know when you can do something I think, and if you feel you can get there then go for it.
Also as a side note…I think a lot of people on this board have strong views about things but won’t say anything on the board because you are scared to ruin your online reputation (if I can call it that). I have to hand it to a lot of people, mainly David Martin for coming out and saying there views on this debate. I find it interesting to see people getting stuff of there chest once in a while.
Anyway, I just done a far too long post...gotta stop writing now before I over do it :)
Ritchie.
I don't want to be mistaken for a 2advanced whiner... I was never really AMAZED by their site to begin with. ALSO, you won't usually find me saying anything about ripping unless it's a case this bad. I think it was the reality slip thread where someone said it was a 2A rip... I thought that was funny because it was VERY good site with a totally different layout/design that 2A has... but come on... this looks like the same swf's used (especially the portfolio section) with a few tints applied. I'm not saying I don't like the site (aside from the graphic on the top) but if you're going to put this kind of time and effort into something, why not make it your own? I'm sure the guy loves all the attention he's getting, and who knows... that might have been his plan from the beginning.
no one is saying that a 'proper' designer designs for other designers, what the point of this seems to be to me is that there are a lot of people out there calling themselves professional designers who in fact have only a limited knowledge of the craft that is design.Quote:
Originally posted by Budget Nudist
**** non-believers..if you think your stuff rocks.. fine!!
Salvator Dali was kicked out at almost every school cause
they thought his paintings sucked well..you know the rest!
and if your clients are satisfied..cool..cause thats your main goal..
they don't know **** about 2A, FI...
remember you design sites for clients NOT for other desinger eyes..
the rest is up to you!!
a client may be happy with something a designer has produced but that doesn't make it good design, it might mean that the designer has produced something that is aesthetically pleasing to the client, but aesthetics are only one aspect of design and I think a lot of people think it's the only thing that matters.
salvador dali was an artist not a designer, and while your comparison has some validity in the world of design (look at david carson for example) designers are not artists. There is a whole world of knowledge that the professional designer can absorb to help whatever natural talents they might have. This is especially true of interactive and digital media, where interaction with a user is key, the purpose of just about every design brief on the web is to communicate something to the user. To do this the designer needs to understand more than what the user might think is attractive. User testing is not having a colleague say that something looks nice, it's not having a typical user sit down and tell you what they think of your design. You need to know that the average user will blame themselves for being too dumb rather than tell you your design has failed to provide them with an effective navigation solution. There is much to learn about the way elements of a design relate to each other, about grid systems, etc etc. All of this knowledge goes into your toolkit, and, as I said before, you might never use those tools but knowing that they are there enables you to make educated decisions about your design.
There are natural designers out there, like david carson, but for the vast majority of us there is a long road of experience and education ahead. The true designer learns to look at the world differently, you live and breath design, you might take as much inspiration from the way traffic flows as much as from other websites you see. Ironically, given the topic of this thread, one of the most interesting and constructive disciplines of a designer is knowing about design history... not just knowing about gabbocorp or ray of light but knowledge of art and design movements through history, that kind of perspective can be invaluable.
within design there are many areas of focus, with the growth of interaction design you might have a large web team that includes interaction designers, GUI designers, usability designers, etc etc.
i wouldn't say that people can't call themselves designers, but there are many levels of ability. I call myself a designer but I would never call myself a good designer, I know that it will be years before I can apply that to myself.
I would never say that you design sites for clients, you design sites for users and more often than not if you only try and please a client the user will suffer and so will the client's business.
Well stated here Ritchie-T. I agree with you 100%. One thing though is that I don't think Shane and Dave have anything to lose by speaking out, whereas many of the amateurs have legitimate concerns about their reputation here. Another thing is that you should visit some of those poltical threads in the Lounge and you'll see some people with strong opinions sharing them -- myself included. ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Ritchie-T
Also as a side note…I think a lot of people on this board have strong views about things but won’t say anything on the board because you are scared to ruin your online reputation (if I can call it that). I have to hand it to a lot of people, mainly David Martin for coming out and saying there views on this debate. I find it interesting to see people getting stuff of there chest once in a while.
Does anyone have any links to any articles about what makes a good designer. It might provide a good framework for more debate.Quote:
Originally posted by aversion
no one is saying that a 'proper' designer designs for other designers...
:) Here's OneQuote:
Originally posted by gdstudios
Does anyone have any links to any articles about what makes a good designer. It might provide a good framework for more debate.