max2003.rr.com - Fantasy Interfaces

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Originally posted by annexion
Did anyone else notice that FI was referred to as Fantasy Interactive in the Macromedia Breeze presentation?

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Official Info:
FI have undergone some dramatic changes and developments, one of which is our name. Fantasy Interfaces is now Fantasy Interactive : www.fantasy-interactive.com or www.f--i.com , FI. The fantasyinterfaces.com site will be removed in due time.

Road Runner http://max2003.rr.com is receiving outstanding feedback and critical response as well as the odd bug report here and there. We very much appreciate the time you have taken to express your views and opinions on the release candidate. We look forward to the official release of the Road Runner site and what is to come from the next generation FI, Fantasy Interactive.

For further information regarding Road Runner http://max2003.rr.com I strongly urge you to visit http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia...re/roadrunner/ for an extensive behind the scenes presentation by Chris Marsh, Director of Web Applications at Road Runner/Time Warner

David Martin
President | CD
FI

Ooo. Do we get to see a new site soon then?

By the way.. that link is http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia...re/roadrunner/ It was broken in your post, FI

Having watched the macromedia presentation it finally becomes clear what propod is all about - basically a platform for manipulating/generating/serving dynamic xml feeds and driving dynamic content in tandom with reducing outbound server traffic by expoiting client-side caching.

It would be nice to hear David Martin elloborate on the new direction FI is moving in, with regards the name change and this new platform.

It's the first time I've been truely impressed by the use of flash technology, and to those sceptical about the hype surrounding propod - there can be no doubt that FI have delivered.

extremely impressive. but a lot of people would say why?

what are the advantages of making a full dynamic flash site over a dynamic html site?

don't flame me for asking, but certain flash haters where i work just don't get it?

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Originally posted by anott
extremely impressive. but a lot of people would say why?

what are the advantages of making a full dynamic flash site over a dynamic html site?

don't flame me for asking, but certain flash haters where i work just don't get it?

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watch the presentation on MM

Thanks for addressing that. And I can understand the name change. When the depth and breadth of your offerings grew, I can see why you'd try to get away from typecasting yourself into one specific facet of the industry.

Good work and congratulations. More than the work you produce is the direction you've been able to take yourself in the business world that inspires me. Good luck to you.

i've already watched the presentation. but because its short it doesn't go into the real reasons and justifications of using a full flash site.

"to date the web has been quite limiting with html and stuff"

again i personally think the way that FI are pushing flash is excellent and can only be a good thing, but there are always these people that will say that it can be done in html, asp, PHP or whatever and they've been doing that for years. Also there always going to be those people how say, what about accessibility?

:confused:

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extremely impressive. but a lot of people would say why?
what are the advantages of making a full dynamic flash site over a dynamic html site?
don't flame me for asking, but certain flash haters where i work just don't get it?

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I wonder the same thing myself. I dig the advancement and all, but I really don't get how this has an advantage over using something like asp and php. Or maybe it's just to bring Flash into the fray? It just seems like Flash still has a disadvantage, because not every browser can view it still. Still, it's extremely impressive work David, congrats!

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Originally posted by Jeay
its a great site, incredible site.

I`m just wondering what 2a people would say abou this, they almost never post about anything accept to deffend there own creation.

so how about it 2a?

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Why in the hell should 2A have to say anything about this? I'm sure they agree that it's a nice site. Sheesh.

:rolleyes:

Let's see if I can answer the question, "WHY DID THEY USE FLASH?"

Well from one standpoint...Flash is really cool!
From another standpoint...because THEY CAN.
and from another...FI are flash developers, so why would they use something else?


And to answer the statement, "NOT EVERY BROWSER CAN VIEW IT"

This really isn't a concern anymore, not with Flash detection kits and auto updates of the flash player...

PLUS...they probably assumed that customers subscribing to ROADRUNNER (high speed internet access) are probably savvy enough to have the latest plugins, and if they don't, not afraid to install them.

AND TO ANSWER THE COMMENT, "WHY SHOULD 2A HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY?"

Because 2A is just as respected as FI, and their opinion would be highly regarded on this matter.

Well From what I gathered from the breeze presentation, some of the benefits would be...

The fact that in most cases the main interface will reside in the users cache, talk about reducing server traffic. I believe .swf files live in the off-line portion of the browser cache, which means by default it hangs around alot longer. So once a user has accesed the site the first time when they return, the only files that need to be sent from the server are the text for the stories and the story specific images. That means every other image in the interface would normally only be downloaded once.

As for the comment that not every browser can view it. Well according to MM flash 6 player has an 86% penetration. I don't think any other plugin can claim any where near that number.

Now for the important point. Why not flash? Everyon has dealt with the problems that arise from html... design limitations, cross browser differences (Can you say netscape is the devil?), Interface graphic slicing, spacer images, nested tables... the list goes on. In flash you design things the way you want them and don't have to fight with things like the way DHTML positions you drop down menu in Netscape 4.75a. The flash player works the same no matter what browser you are using. Not to mention you can design things that would never fly in html. Try getting the story pod transistions on the RR site to work in html with out being a javaScript programmer.

The argument may be "It can be done is ASP, HTML and PHP". But I think the question is why? Why spend all the extra time build something that you could do in minutes with flash? I think a lot of the naysayers are scared. MM is making the programming portion of web design (most of the highest paying jobs in web dev) much easier and require less expertise. But hey resistance is futile! Jump on the train or get left behind!

Well I feel better now, hehe. You see I constantly have to prove the flash platform here, where I work... but I can honestly say I have never lost the battle to build something in flash, once all the benefits are on the table the old school web guys just can't argue with the facts.

hopefully this will give you a little ammunition when standing up to the heavy hand of the old school HTML mafia.

Very well said.

thats the relpy i was looking for thanks.

"naysayers are scared. MM is making the programming portion of web design (most of the highest paying jobs in web dev) much easier and require less expertise."

i think more than anything thats it in a nutshell.

OHHH MY FREEEAKIN GOOONNESSS!!!! *jaw drops!*
:eek: Oh my I can't believe I'm shedding tears! Gawd I have no words strong enough to express this level of skill! This is insane

First let me gather myself and stop laughting at these airhead designers and their REVOLUTION, PROPHECY and other pompous mythical crap posted all over.

Ok, that's better.

RR site is the same old corporate crap wrapped up in a nicer package.

Don't be surprised when it gets taken off line and replaced with another HTML site within a year like a few other high profile FI and 2AD. projects ( because technology behind it doesn't really work as well as they say it does ).

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Originally posted by ClydeTheGlyde
First let me gather myself and stop laughting at these airhead designers and their REVOLUTION, PROPHECY and other pompous mythical crap posted all over.

Ok, that's better.

RR site is the same old corporate crap wrapped up in a nicer package.

Don't be surprised when it gets taken off line and replaced with another HTML site within a year like a few other high profile FI and 2AD. projects ( because technology behind it doesn't really work as well as they say it does ).

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I guess I just don't see why you have so much animosity towards this site and these companies. They are awesome, get it? These companies are attempting to utilize Flash in new and improved ways, so that the technology does not fizzle out and all you can do is insult them? Again, what gives man? Props are definitely due here, and I think most everyone would agree.

Can I please see one of your websites? PLEASE?!?

If I may, I think ClydeTheGlyde was getting at the fact that quite a few of the really high-profile sites that have been developed by these high-profile companies have been taken offline. I won't try to say the sites wern't impressive, because they most certainly were. But the long-term success rate of such sites has been less than ideal. Look, for example, at conspiracy games and starbreeze entertainment from FI, and FirestormPC, RealityBid, Pittsburg Penguins and Higher Source Music (which now seems to take you to 2A's site) from 2Advanced.

While I wouldn't go so far as to call them "airhead designers", I do question the reality of such endevors.


Just my $.02

Starbreeze is still up, and still one of my most favorite site. The others are, as you stated, down now. I dig what the RR site is doing for the Flash community, as well as for how Flash is being represented, which really has nothing to do with past websites. We're just outsiders after all, there's no way to know what goes on behind the scenes. Maybe they just couldn't afford the upkeep of getting so much traffic or something, <shrug>, it could've been anything, which means it could also be that these guys aren't holding up their end, but the point is, no one but them knows.

Most amazing flash site I've seen.

Great work.

-Mike

Nice work David. These types of sites are the ones that push flash developers to attemp these types of sites in the future. Truely Revolutionary.

Way to go FI.

A leap ahead in technology leaves 2a, FlashLevel, Who's We, and other "eye candy only" studios in the dust. With XML used to drive the content, all persentation data is kept away from the site's structure. I believe this way is much more efficient than XHTML and CSS. There's no needless splash or intro pages, CSS hacks or browser troubles; just clean and dynamic Flash.

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Originally posted by FI
Official Info:
FI have undergone some dramatic changes and developments, one of which is our name. Fantasy Interfaces is now Fantasy Interactive : www.fantasy-interactive.com or www.f--i.com , FI. The fantasyinterfaces.com site will be removed in due time.

Road Runner http://max2003.rr.com is receiving outstanding feedback and critical response as well as the odd bug report here and there. We very much appreciate the time you have taken to express your views and opinions on the release candidate. We look forward to the official release of the Road Runner site and what is to come from the next generation FI, Fantasy Interactive.

For further information regarding Road Runner http://max2003.rr.com I strongly urge you to visit http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia...re/roadrunner/ for an extensive behind the scenes presentation by Chris Marsh, Director of Web Applications at Road Runner/Time Warner

David Martin
President | CD
FI

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Can I just ask one question which hasn't been answered and i'd like to know:

"Say for example you go to a page within the site that you want someone to look at (which is often the case with sites of this type).

How do you send someone a link to that page? Or do you have to give them instructions on how to get to that page - e.g. go to site, click news, click......... etc etc."

Just wondering.

brilliant work fi, this is one of those projects with the ultimate brief, to build a heavy content news type site in flash without making any compromises, they did exactly that.

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Originally posted by Olli_Budworth
Can I just ask one question which hasn't been answered and i'd like to know:

"Say for example you go to a page within the site that you want someone to look at (which is often the case with sites of this type).

How do you send someone a link to that page? Or do you have to give them instructions on how to get to that page - e.g. go to site, click news, click......... etc etc."

Just wondering.

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The max2003.rr.com version is only the release candidate. The final launch will boast some improvments, bug fixes etc.. but not the bookmarking system. However, features such as refer, send a link, bookmarking will be implmented in due time along with some other more exstensive goodies.

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Originally posted by FI
The max2003.rr.com version is only the release candidate. The final launch will boast some improvments, bug fixes etc.. but not the bookmarking system. However, features such as refer, send a link, bookmarking will be implmented in due time along with some other more exstensive goodies.

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sounds good! Lack of referral may be the biggest withdrawal of flash.

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Originally posted by FI
The max2003.rr.com version is only the release candidate. The final launch will boast some improvments, bug fixes etc.. but not the bookmarking system. However, features such as refer, send a link, bookmarking will be implmented in due time along with some other more exstensive goodies.

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Thank you for taking time out to answer.

I think the whole flash and standard website features threshhold is closing. I saw a site on macromedia a while ago where the IE back and forward buttons interacted with the flash movie. Was really impressive to see!

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Originally posted by FI
but not the bookmarking system. However, features such as refer, send a link, bookmarking will be implmented in due time along with some other more exstensive goodies.

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hey david, I think the site looks and works great, it is 'let down' by its lack of deep linking/bookmarking in the sense that your average users will be a bit stumped when they refresh or bookmark and are always taken back to the front page. It's not just your site of course, but any flash site, though more people will be expecting to be able to do it on the RR site.

I wondered if you'd looked at the system used by teknision who have a setup that allows you to use the back button and bookmark/deep link on the site using a hidden frame. I think it's based on an idea developed by robert penner. I'm surprised that more flash sites aren't using a system like this, which isn't that hard to implement, especially when it's included in a project from the beginning.

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Originally posted by Olli_Budworth
I think the whole flash and standard website features threshhold is closing. I saw a site on macromedia a while ago where the IE back and forward buttons interacted with the flash movie. Was really impressive to see!

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have a look at robert penner's system, which I mentioned above.

http://www.robertpenner.com/experime...ackbutton.html

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Originally posted by aversion


I wondered if you'd looked at the system used by teknision who have a setup that allows you to use the back button and bookmark/deep link on the site using a hidden frame. I think it's based on an idea developed by robert penner. I'm surprised that more flash sites aren't using a system like this, which isn't that hard to implement, especially when it's included in a project from the beginning.

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wow i never knew they actually had a system that can do all that with a flash movie, very itneresting, more companies should learn that tool, bringing flash up another level

That is a very cool find, av. But, the URL remains static, therefore ruling out the possibility linking that specific page.

edit: I downloaded the zip - Looks like there's several HTML files - but those are just used to communicate with the flash, not to hold the content.

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Originally posted by fospher.com
That is a very cool find, av. But, the URL remains static, therefore ruling out the possibility linking that specific page.

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changes for me, the teknision system, not the robert penner script. i think teknision have taken the idea and run with it, the penner script is only for the back button not linking.

click here http://www.teknision.com/siteVersion...#Site%20Design and you should get taken to a section within the site.

bookmarks work too. The invisible frame changes the frameset URL which in turn passes a variable to the flash when you hit it to tell it which section to show.

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Originally posted by aversion
changes for me, the teknision system, not the robert penner script.

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Really? Cause teknision stays static for me as well as the penner script. I dont see how it changed for you in the first place...different webpages holding content would rule out flash producing a smooth transition...you would see that "white flash" hence content being loaded on the next page.

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Originally posted by aversion
changes for me, the teknision system, not the robert penner script. i think teknision have taken the idea and run with it, the penner script is only for the back button not linking.

click here http://www.teknision.com/siteVersion...#Site%20Design and you should get taken to a section within the site.

bookmarks work too. The invisible frame changes the frameset URL which in turn passes a variable to the flash when you hit it to tell it which section to show.

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That's amazing!

http://www.teknision.com/siteVersion...agmic%20Gaming

http://www.teknision.com/siteVersion...20North%20Wind

etc

Av, have you got the URL to the pages Macromedia made a while ago, where the IE back button interacted with the flash on the screen?

Couple that with the teknision site and you've got everything!!!!

Ahhh, found them:

http://examples.macromedia.com/petma...store_800.html - on this one, try click ing on say dogs, then click on something in the dogs sub menu - you'll see that the IE back button highlights.

and the technology explained:

http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx/blueprint/

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Originally posted by fospher.com
Really? Cause teknision stays static for me as well as the penner script.

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And now I see why :).


Firebird doesnt support them javascript tricks.

yah, it's IE win only from what i can tell.

Since this thread seems to be going a bit off topic, I figured it would be a good idea to start a thread in the Application Design Forum to continue this conversation in greater detail.

If you have some ideas or suggestions on usability and browser integration, please go to http://www.flashkit.com/board/showth...hreadid=510876 and make yourself heard.

maybe I just didn't notice before but the back button is implemented on the site thru a similar system to penner's frameset, sorry if I seemed to be griping that it wasn't.

:)

The max2003.rr.com version already uses an exstensive back button system.

should it look like this when i click the back button??

http://www.vectorgraphics.net/images/figrab.jpg

just seems a bit odd as if you click back again it takes you to a page that you were never on to begin with.... with no option of going back further :confused: