It's suspicious however you look at it. Of course he was never tested positive when he was'nt available for tests ... and at exactly the time it would have been most effective for a positive training-effect looking forward to the tour.
Fredi
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It's suspicious however you look at it. Of course he was never tested positive when he was'nt available for tests ... and at exactly the time it would have been most effective for a positive training-effect looking forward to the tour.
Fredi
I never thought about it, but sow the seed of consipracy and he did make that hill climb yesterday look desperately easy.
Well, as easy as anyone can make it look.
Thoughts of conspiracy aside, unfair to call anyone guilty until proven so.
But very easy to lose interest in this as a "sport" with so much smoke around...
It's a load of crap. Even English football banned a player (Rio Ferdinand) for 9 months when he didn't attend one testing session. Cycling's becoming a farce.Quote:
Originally Posted by Subway
The real question is, why was he allowed to even start the Tour if he didn't sign the drugsfree charter?
Money.
Oh dear, Vino out - Astana out.
And now they decide to publically question Rassmussen's (sp?) missing dope tests.
It's all going to hell in a bicycle-styled handbasket.
Vino wasn't surprising, but still sad. I think several Astana riders was caught for doping last year, but the team had another name then. I'm also starting to doubt Rasmussen, who has missed 4 dope tests. A previous team mate also said that Rasmussen had tried to smuggle blood. It wouldn't surprise me if Contador use something either.
Neither would it surprise me if Armstrong also have used some, when seeing all these other guys being caught. Bjarne Riis, Marco Pantani, Jan Ullrich, Floyd Landis - All these winners of the tour, but none of them as good as Armstrong.
But even though it's sad that these guys are cheating, it's good that they get them out of the sport.
so now Rassmussen is out, sacked by his own team, booed at start and finish of this last leg. Who can win now?...Cadel Evans maybe - http://www.cadel.com.au/
david
Why did the chicken cross the road...
to get to Mexico, no Italy, no Mexico
Like that joke, I can't really take this "race" seriously anymore, despite the fact that some riders may be clean.
I think most riders are clean, but not most of the overall favourites. David - I hope Cadel Evans or Carlos Sastre wins now. Tom Boonen said yesterday that Evans was the only one of the overall favourites who were clean. Let's hope he hasn't used anything.
Actually, Rasmussen had been spotted in the Alps when he supposedly was in Mexico. It's a way of speculating in not getting tested, according to Victor Conte, the founder of the Balco Laboratory, who's been convicted for helping many athletes with dope.
The athlete says that they're at one place, while being at another. If the testers show up and don't find them, they get one warning, but in the meanwhile, they have got the opportunity to use dope without being tested.
I'm of the opinion that fans should take the race seriously for the remaining riders who are clean.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOriginalFlashDavo
Yes, but "thinking" doesn't make it true. And unfortunately due to recent history the onus will be on the teams, riders and the sport to convince the general public they are clean. That's not going to happen overnight.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusVS
Yes, let us hope. But a clean test isn't going to prove anything in the short term unfortunately. Rass was also testing "clean", he just got caught lying.Quote:
Let's hope he hasn't used anything.
Rass tested clean. He just got caught lying. Perhaps other riders are better liers?Quote:
Originally Posted by hurricaneone
Cycling fans will defend their sport. The general public - the ones that the big sponsors of these high profile cycling events spend millions of dollars to promote their company to - will need to be convinced over time that the sport has changed/is changing. That certainly won't happen this year, doubts will remain no matter who wins.
Someone call the record books, we have acheived a new level of cynicism.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOriginalFlashDavo
:)
You're kidding aren't you? Cycling has a HUGE pr problem at the moment, and all I'm doing is voicing that. The fact that a cloud is hanging over other "champions" from past tours is evidence that testing "clean" means absolutely nothing at the moment.
Proof will be in the pudding, over the longer term. Did Rass really get sent home by his team because he was "cheating", or was it because it became publicly known? Until those types of questions can be answered to the general public's satisfaction, any rider that wins will have a cloud over them.
Sad but true me thinks.
I can see how you can say testing clean means nothing, but if you applied that same train of thought to any similar situation, we'd be in a right pickle.
'Right, sir, we've done a breathalyzer and it's come back negative but we're nicking you anyway because you had a glass of wine two nights ago.'
The standpoint you seem to be taking is one of if you've ever used performance enhancers then you're guilty for life, whereas I would say that a reformed user who is clean is equally eligible to race as a rider who never used.
Marginally unfair? Perhaps, as I would assume that the benefits of doping would remain at some degrading level beyond that of actually testing positive, yet clinically, I don't see how one can say you're guilty when the test results say not.
Well, the test results said that Rass wasn't guilty of doping. So should he have been left to race then?
They also - at the time I believe - said that Landis wasn't guilty too. We'll soon see what happens in that area, though the threats made to Greg LeMond indicate something a little fishy there to say the least.
Unfortunately, until the testing process has been shown to be effective over a period of time, the odour of cheating will hang over cycling.
Whatever the "facts" may be.
And if I was being paid to drive my car, and was a role model to young drivers due to my high public profile, then your breathalyser analogy might be apt. But I'm not.
)Though I damn well should be!! ;))
Cycling actually has more strict and more frequent dope tests than any other sport. Most of the riders tests negative, and many are tested everyday during the Tour de France and also when not competing. As sponsors are really important to the riders, and sponsors don't like doping scandals, there will be taken measures against it. New this year is that many riders have signed contracts with their team that make them lose one years wage if they're caught using dope (no, I don't think this will encourage them to try harder to hide it, but discourage them from using it). There have also been talked about canceling all competitions for one year, but that seems unlikely to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOriginalFlashDavo
4 times. 3 times is the limit at which you can be excluded from competitions (equal to positive test). The problem here was the he lied/didn't give up his localization 2 times to the ICO and two times to the Danish Cycling Association (or whatever their name is), so both of these association thought that he had just missed it twice. If it had been known that the number was 4 times instead of 2, he wouldn't have been allowed to start this year's Tour.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOriginalFlashDavo
Well, there's something not quite matching with that claim and the frequent drug findings. Their testing procedures obviously need a LOT of work.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusVS
Don't shoot the messenger. Cycling is tainted at the moment, and it's of their own making - money and victory over the good of the sport. Not the first sport to go down that route, probably not the last, but it is the current one in the spotlight and the one - at the moment - with the most issues to address.
It doesn't paint a pretty picture.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/othe...ng/6916932.stm
Can you imagine how it must feel to be a promising young, up and coming cyclist, when you see/hear so much of this going on? If you know those who are beating you are using drugs yet not getting caught, how tempting must it be to give yourself that "edge" too?
One can only hope the sport can turn the corner, but only time will tell.
Nastiest sh1t in TDF history. It's getting uglier and uglier. Might as well cancel the tour. First, it was sad Vino got kicked out, but the next day I was pretty mad. Such a humble man working his best out from a bad crash turned out that he's doping. And there's Rasmussen, I've never trusted this guy so all is well when he got kicked out, but it still shocking. As of now, the remaining strong contenders (Cadel, Levi, Contador) are believed to be clean, but who knows. I'm not taking bet anymore. I kinda have a bad feeling that once one of two Discovery Channel men (Levi & contador) starts wearing yellow jersey, all eyes are gonna be on him. No one is trusted these days if you wear yellow jersey more than once. Nonetheless, I still believe that Levi & Contador are clean because of their team effort that catapulted these two to top three.
Yes if would be desirable to test every rider every day every year, but that won't be possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOriginalFlashDavo
When you speak of "their" own making, it provokes me a bit. There are lots of clean cyclists and it's a minority that ruins for the others. You can also see that sponsors throw these doped idiots out of their teams.
Contador is 24 years old. He followed Rasmussen in the mountains. If Rasmussen was using dope, I also think Contador have used something.
I don't think it is quite like that. His profession requires no doping or blood exchange at any time, even when not competing (that is why they have out of season testing).Quote:
Originally Posted by hurricaneone
Rassmussen was removed by his team because he lied about where he was for pre-race testing. Clean or not, the lying was enough, they are required to be available for the tests.
When (or whether) he used performance enhacing substances or procedures is irrelevant.
The fact that some of the cheats are going before the race ends is significant, and shows how seriously team sponsors and race officials take the anti-drug stance.
I think it is a very good sign for the future.
david
Indeed, but similar to what Magnus said, smearing the whole sport with the same dirty brush is unfair to those who are clean.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
And there are some.
Not to mention, testing to the point required to completely eliminate doping is impossible, so I can't see any good coming from even suggesting as much.
That doesn't make it any better when the tour leader is ejected from the race, but public or private, the house was being cleaned. Part of the game is being tested and skip the dates, you're as good as dirty.
I think as a spectator I just want to see them doing as much as they can to eliminate it. And at the moment, they patently have not imho.
So until that time, I'll take any "result" with a pinch of salt.