Elements. Fantasy cards game

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Originally Posted by DragonBlood87

It used to only generate two, and hardly anyone used it because it was so weak and inconsistent. ;)

I think a better idea would be to leave it at three, but restrict it to only having six per deck, just like the non-pillar cards.

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It used to be limit x6 also, and no one used it. The only adjustments that made it viable were no limit (as if it was a pillar, oh wait it is) and to generate x3 random quanta per turn. Why is Quantum Pillar the card getting talk right now about nerf'ing??

Anyone looked at Dissipation Shield as the culprit? Also, what about the OPwall (errrr, Bone Wall) or other more "broken" cards? Or Earth, Water, and Entropy's lacking of viability as stand alone elements? Suggested answers to those would be good too (currently I don't have any to suggest :( )...

--rob77dp

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Originally Posted by onejahoneaim

There is a problem with the Quantum Pillar / Dissipation Shield Immunity powers, I have played about 10 games, LVL 4 PvP. At least 3-4 of those games were vs decks that this combination. --- Essentially you cant earthquake / steal / deflagration / destroy enough quantum pillars or shields to stop them, then once you run out of cards the game is over. *** Maybe there could be an "Exhaust deck" feature, penalizing the player for drawing their last card in their deck. ( Say you lose 10 of every quantum and 20 HP )

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I've heard that dissipation shield is going to be rebalanced to not synergize so powerfully with quantum pillars. I don't think they'll be a problem once that's taken care of.

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Originally Posted by rob77dp

Chaos seed already is weighted to give more positive benefits to your own creature when cast on them as opposed to the negative effects it bestows on the opponent's creatures.

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I just tested, and I believe you're confused. Chaos seed does an array of negative effects regardless of what you're targeting. The only one you'd want triggering on your own creature is the parallel universe effect (Except for a very rare desire to self-reverse time). Either way, it's not reliable at all to use on yourself.

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Originally Posted by rob77dp

Quantum Pillars, I believe, used to be x2 random quanta per turn. NOBODY used them at that point. Simply put, x1 Quantum Pillar giving essentially 1/6 of each quantum per turn (2 quantum randomly / 12 total possible types) just was not enough.

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They had two issues then: They only gave 2, and they always gave them to the same element. So for multi-element decks they were very, very unreliable for building anything usable because one qpillar gave one element type per turn. They received a double buff when they got boosted to 3 scattered. I don't think they're currently too strong aside from dissipation shield, though.

dissipation shield/QP is not unbalanced. It can be annoying if you don't have any offense in your deck but that doesnt make it overpowered. I've crushed it many times with my firefly queen deck and my phase dragon deck wipes it out before it even gets started.

If you get a lousy starting hand against it, it might outlast your deck, but it can still be beat. Then again most any other deck will just flat out defeat you. And, BTW, if you know you're going to lose there's always the menu button at the top that quits the game and you can start a new one.

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Originally Posted by marauder68

dissipation shield/QP is not unbalanced. It can be annoying if you don't have any offense in your deck but that doesnt make it overpowered. I've crushed it many times with my firefly queen deck and my phase dragon deck wipes it out before it even gets started.

If you get a lousy starting hand against it, it might outlast your deck, but it can still be beat. Then again most any other deck will just flat out defeat you. And, BTW, if you know you're going to lose there's always the menu button at the top that quits the game and you can start a new one.

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Depends if they have a lobo and enough ea's in the deck or not. If so, the only thing you'll be able to do against them is poison (And hope they don't have some purifies tossed in, too)

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Originally Posted by rob77dp

It used to be limit x6 also, and no one used it. The only adjustments that made it viable were no limit (as if it was a pillar, oh wait it is)

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Lol!

Well, it should also just give one quanta then, "as if it was a pillar, oh wait it is".

Two quanta is a fair tradeoff. If everyone stops using it, good. I for one wouldn't be sad to see DS decks go, they're lame.

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Originally Posted by CapAp

Two quanta is a fair tradeoff. If everyone stops using it, good. I for one wouldn't be sad to see DS decks go, they're lame.

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The trick is to have rainbow be viable, hitting qpillars too hard will wreck that. DS can be fixed without touching the pillars (And I believe is planned to be)

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Originally Posted by Bianary

The trick is to have rainbow be viable, hitting qpillars too hard will wreck that. DS can be fixed without touching the pillars (And I believe is planned to be)

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Rainbow should be viable, but less reliable than mono-color. This is what I meant in my earlier post about the game discouraging single-color play. Rainbow is a BETTER strategy than single color right now, except for Darkness, Fire, maybe Time and Earth if you have the right cards.

Quantum Pillars are not broken, but they're TOO good at what they do.

And hey, one thing that bothers me. How come "Time Factory" is the only Pillar not called a Pillar?! :D

Here's another idea- instead of the top 50, how about the top 5 of each element? I don't know how hard that would be to program, but right now it looks like 60% of the top 50 are phase dragon decks. It's extremely annoying.

That also kind of proves the point that DS is not overpowered. It doesn't need to be fixed since it isn't broken. Phase dragons/parallel universe IS.

bug - in the level4 (AI-top50)pvp: I played my Bone Wall over a zero-counter Dimensional Shield and it become a Bone Wall with only 1 Bone Shield left (this only happen when the Dimensional Shield is at 0 counting..)

eh, for fixing the PU problem(if there is one) would probably make it so the casting cost for aether quantams is the same as the cost of the creature your using it on. also any percieved problems with quantam pillars, would probably be to make neutral creatures and spells, and then reset quantam pillars to 2 quantams generated.

Any idea on the time line or issues for fixing the PvP desync issue(s)? I am just curious, and currently even the buggy PvP is sufficing, but the desync's do grow quite old somewhat quickly. :(


--rob77dp

(Understandable, free game, not your job, still work week, etc... was just curious is all)

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Originally Posted by Pilchard123

That was me -- http://www.elementsthegame.wikia.com It's a bit buggy, so don't expect it to work. There's only about 5 articles on it ATM, though. Help would be appreciated...PLEASE!!!!!

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Here I am, quoting myself....

Anyway. I've worked out a fix (I think) for the bugginess if the wiki. The new Rich Text Editor that it uses (All supplied by wikia.com, I only started it, they do all the behind the scenes work, server stuff etc. Please DON'T credit me on my site-building skills, I only know very basic HTML, CSS and JavaScript) has a problem with tables and bullet lists. If you change it to wikicode view when you're editing it, it works fine. Again, here's the address:http://www.elementsthegame.wikia.com. Please help, if it hits 100 articles, it can be featured on other wikis, and gets more publicity.

As for a dedicated forum, which other people havew asked for too, I can do that, but the reason that there isn't one i because zanzarino doesn't want one because it will stop publicity for the game, as noone will use this forum anymore. If we were to build a good wiki, and advertise it, put links to it on other sites, and just make it easy to find, that won't be a problem, and we can have a edicated forum.

So,
Build wiki -> resources for players -> publicity -> no nooed to keep on flashkit forums -> dedicated forum -> make it big -> more publicity -> ad infinitum.

In other words, I, you and anyone else wants to build the wiki.

http://www.elementsthegame.wikia.com

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Originally Posted by zanzarino

Chaos seed now always have a negative effect on the target, with a wider range of possible skills applied, including reverse time and lobotomize effects.

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Does lobotomize effect remove all the creatures abilities or just the activated ones?

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Originally Posted by marauder68

Here's another idea- instead of the top 50, how about the top 5 of each element? I don't know how hard that would be to program, but right now it looks like 60% of the top 50 are phase dragon decks. It's extremely annoying.

That also kind of proves the point that DS is not overpowered. It doesn't need to be fixed since it isn't broken. Phase dragons/parallel universe IS.

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Just because aether is OP it doesn't make Dis shield any less broken. They are both broken and need to be fixed. In my opnion though aether needs some new cards added at the same time that its current Op cards are fixed

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Originally Posted by nivekgallacci

Does lobotomize effect remove all the creatures abilities or just the activated ones?

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It seems to remove all abilities except for devourers quantum eating ability. I think that may be a glitch because no matter what happens to a devourer whether its lobotimized, drozen, or summoned by mutation it always has the quantum eating ability.


I'm also adding an article to the wikia for pillarless firefly queen strats to help ya out. I may or may not addd more articles from time to time depending on how lazy I am at the time.

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Originally Posted by DarkGate

I'm also adding an article to the wikia for pillarless firefly queen strats to help ya out. I may or may not addd more articles from time to time depending on how lazy I am at the time.

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Thanks a bunch!!!!

Come on, people! Follow the example of this fine citizen! Or forum/wiki user...or whatever you'd call a wiki-making-type-person...

People complain that Dissipation Shield is overpowered, but I feel it is fine as it is. I used it before, but I don't use it now, and I rarely has any trouble overcoming an opponent's Dissipation Shield.

Dissipation Shield has often become more of a problem than a benefit for my opponents. The shield dissipated away an opponent's quanta, making it impossible for him to summon creatures or cast spells. When I penetrated and destroyed the shield (because my opponent ran out of quanta,) that also left him vulnerable for one turn without quanta.

If only I could put a Dissipation Shield onto an enemy to screw him over...

I agree ktchong, dissipation shield only "feels" broken to the player if they are being out quantum-generated during the game, in my experiences. Only the most timely of Diss Shield drops really gives a seemingly unfair advantage... which to means does NOT mean the card is broken.

I suppport changing parallel universe to the creature it copies lasting only 1 turn, or to it costing equal (or equal minus 1 or equal minus 2 or something) to the casting cost of the creature to be copied.


--rob77dp

What I feel is that Entropy, Water and Earth are particularly weak elements. Here are some suggestions to strengthened the three elements:

Entropy:

• Adrenaline or Berserk (Spell): Targeted one creature, either yours or your opponent's. The creature does 2x damages but loses 1 HP per turn until it dies.
  
  
• Anarchy (Spell): Affect all enemy creatures. All enemy creatures become confused. Every turned, each confused creature randomly performs either: (a) an attack on their master, i.e., your opponent; (b) an attack on another of your opponent's creatures, (c) an attack on you; (d) an attack on one of your creatures; or (e) nothing.
  
  
• Confuse (Spell): It is like Anarchy, but works on only one creature.
  
  
• Chaos Shield (Shield): Every turn it performs the function of a random shield. It either absorbs, blocks, bubbles, dissipates, freezes, halves, reflects or does nothing to attacking creatures. Its effect randomizes every turn.

Water:

• Reservoir (Permanent): Multiplies water production. Each Sapphire Pillar generates an extra water quantum per turn for each Reservoir in play. A stack of Reservoirs can be destroyed by Earthquake like pillars.
  
  
• Rust (Spell): Decreases a creature's or weapon's attack strength by one for every 10 water quanta your opponent has; then, it further reduces the creature's or weapon's attack strength by one per turn, i.e., -1/0.
  
  
• Nymph or Siren (Creature): Charm or control an enemy creature.

Earth:

• Earthquake (Spell): It should be able to destroy a stack of Boneyards, Empathic Bonds and/or Golden Hourglasses. Which means Boneyard, Empathic Bonds and Golden Hourglasses should be stackable.

More colors need removal. Also, people should be able to play with a single element for more elements. Currently, you can only do that with aether (Parallel Dragon), Darkness (devourers with dragon and drain life) and fire (Fahrenheit, dragons, and firebolt). The reason those are the only ones playable is because they all have removal, or are fast enough.

Also, a couple glitches. Creatures don't deal damage the turn they unfreeze, but they unfreeze before damage is dealt, so it looks like they should. Also, gravity pull doesn't work on the turn it is used.

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Originally Posted by rob77dp

I suppport changing parallel universe to the creature it copies lasting only 1 turn, or to it costing equal (or equal minus 1 or equal minus 2 or something) to the casting cost of the creature to be copied.

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I have a different suggestion for nerfing Parallel Universe, (if it needs to be nerf'd, even though I know varied permutations of Devourer, Earthquake and/or Reverse Time that could overcome Parallel Universe.)

The parallel copy should be link to the original creature, i.e., the original and its parallel copies share the "life bond" or same HP. If the original or any one of its parallel copies loses HP, the original and all its copies lose the same amount of HP as well. If the original or a parallel copy dies, the original and all its copies die altogether. This implement should more strategic considerations to using and overcoming Parallel Universe.

Currently, Parallel Universe uses a simple tactic:

• Summon a Phase Dragon, and make multiple parallel copies out of that one dragon.
  
  
• Make multiple parallel copies out of a powerful enemy creature, and then destroy the original creature.

If the original and all its parallel copies shared the same pool of HP, the original and all the parallel copies will die altogether when the enemy just takes out the original or one of the copies.

So parallel user will have to consider carefully how he will distribute his parallel copies. He likely won't want to make multiple parallel copies out of just one original. He also won't want to take out an enemy's powerful creature after he makes parallel copies. He just has to put in much more considerations on how he will protect his parallel copies.

Notes: However, if you freeze, lobotomize or otherwise cast a negative/positive spell on the original or a parallel copy, the other one won't be affected. They share only their HP and whatever effects the original has prior to being copied.

For players who are having problems against Aether:

Earthquakes + Devourers + Steal + Reverse Time + Nova are very potent against Aether. Those are all relatively cheap to summon/cast, so they are faster than Aether. Together they can seriously strain Aether's quantum production and reserve.

Bonewall is also good against Aether.

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Originally Posted by rob77dp

I agree ktchong, dissipation shield only "feels" broken to the player if they are being out quantum-generated during the game, in my experiences. Only the most timely of Diss Shield drops really gives a seemingly unfair advantage... which to means does NOT mean the card is broken.

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Imo, the biggest problem with diss shield isn't necessarily how strong it is -- it's that it's a horrible card for Entropy.

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Originally Posted by ktchong

Water:[*]Reservoir (Permanent): Multiplies water production. Each Sapphire Pillar generates an extra water quantum per turn for each Reservoir in play. A stack of Reservoirs can be destroyed by Earthquake like pillars.

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Wow. Ice bolt says o hai.

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Originally Posted by Bianary

Imo, the biggest problem with diss shield isn't necessarily how strong it is -- it's that it's a horrible card for Entropy.

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Thematically more of an aether card?

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Originally Posted by Bianary

Wow. Ice bolt says o hai.

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Hehe yep. Turn 8 pillars into 24 easy and starting spamming icebolts. Use freeze to slow the opponent down and you have one hell of a strategy.

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Originally Posted by marauder68

Thematically more of an aether card?

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No, it just consumes so much quanta you have to use it with a qpillar deck -- which isn't entropy, it's rainbow.

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Originally Posted by DarkGate

Hehe yep. Turn 8 pillars into 24 easy and starting spamming icebolts. Use freeze to slow the opponent down and you have one hell of a strategy.

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It would make firebolt spam look like a joke. I don't like the idea at all.

Edit: What about something more like this: Reservoir. Permanent. 0 water. Regain the casting cost of your next water spell. Reservoir is destroyed after it activates once. Or gain twice the cost, and have it cost to place. Something like that, but far less than 5-15x quanta per turn per reservoir.

It would be nice if we could see more "Bolt" spells. For example

Lifebolt 3 life
spell
You gain 4 life plus an additional 4 for each 10 life quantum in your possession.

or

Venombolt 3 Death
spell
Poison damage 1 target player plus an additional poison damage for each 10 death quantum in your possession.

And an antibolt.

Quantum Backlash 5 fire
spell
Deals 1 damage to opponent for each quantum in their possesion.
(that would also deal with the dissipation shield complaints)


Another thing. There are too few cards with momentum. And they are all limited to gravity. All two of them. Really, it would be nice to see more of it since it is such a good ability.

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Originally Posted by Bianary

Edit: What about something more like this: Reservoir. Permanent. 0 water. Regain the casting cost of your next water spell. Reservoir is destroyed after it activates once. Or gain twice the cost, and have it cost to place. Something like that, but far less than 5-15x quanta per turn per reservoir.

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What kind of reservoir would be destroyed after it's used??

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Originally Posted by Garruk

Quantum Backlash 5 fire
spell
Deals 1 damage to opponent for each quantum in their possesion.
(that would also deal with the dissipation shield complaints)

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That's a good card. The opponent wouldnt get damaged if he has a DS- but would run out of mana- one point of damage from a creature and the shield is down!

I second this card!!

Message Removed: Nevermind. I misread "Quantum Backlash" for "Aether Backlash".

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Originally Posted by ktchong

I don't think it's a good card because it's only useful against one and just one particular element. It's useless against in every other situation.

So, this card belongs to one particular element, and it's useful only against one other particular element.

Why would anyone want a card that's useful in one particular situation??

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Its useful against any deck. Opponent takes one point of damage for every point of mana he has.

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Originally Posted by Bianary

Imo, the biggest problem with diss shield isn't necessarily how strong it is -- it's that it's a horrible card for Entropy.

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Why is it a horrible card for Entropy?

It's really the only barely good card for Entropy.

Right now, Entropy is a really weak element.

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Originally Posted by ktchong

What kind of reservoir would be destroyed after it's used??

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The balanced kind :P

I'm sure there are other solutions, but simply dumping extra water quantums is going to be a balance nightmare.

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Originally Posted by ktchong

Why is it a horrible card for Entropy?

It's really the only barely good card for Entropy.

Right now, Entropy is a really weak element.

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I already said why: Because it relies on qpillars, not entropy quantums. It is not used as an entropy card, it is used as a rainbow card.

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Originally Posted by Garruk

And an antibolt.

Quantum Backlash 5 fire
spell
Deals 1 damage to opponent for each quantum in their possesion.
(that would also deal with the dissipation shield complaints)

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Shouldn't be fire, and definitely shouldn't be 1:1. Late-game it's very easy to have 30-40 quantums built up just from nothing to spend them on, just stockpile a few of these and destroy anyone easier than you ever could bolt them to death.

The cost to summon an Immortal (Aether) needs to be lowered.

An Immortal costs 7 quanta to summon.

An Anubis (Time), which is a far superior creature with better stats and a similar but superior ability, costs 8 quanta to summon.

That is why no one even bothers with using Immortals.

I agree with Bianary on this one. Dissipation shield isnt used as an entropy card, its for rainbow decks. So is the nova card, which is also in Entropy.

The only way I can see Nova being useful in entropy is if entropy creatures use abilities that require other elements quantum. This would make sense, since many mutations require other element quantum. But making diss. shield more of a rainbow card than entropy card really doesnt help how weak entropy is.

There's 4 ways around dissipation shield:
1) Steal/Deflag it
2) Poison/Firebolt/Icebolt/Drain Life
3) Momentum
4) Break it by outdamaging quantum pillars, or destroying quantum pillars

The only reason no one likes diss. shield is that #1 only works if its not earth artifacted (which any diss shield deck should have), #2 no one uses firebolt/icebolts ever since those spell reflection shields and poison strategy is too slow vs fast top50 decks.

Most decks try to go through #4, breaking a dissapation shield. and if you havent had trouble breaking it, you obviously have not faced a real diss shield deck, because if you can outdamage 20x3 = 60 damage AND destroy the leftover quantum, and deal with whatever filler they added to their deck (freezes, RTs) then you must have the ultimate deck lol. The only deck that prolly has the potential to rack up that much damage and the leftover is FFQ, and even then, only ONE rain of fire is needed to wipe that out.

#3 is also a good option. People are saying that aether deck is probably the fastest deck. Try a gravity mark, with aether deck. Use momentum on your phase dragons, PU them, and you're unaffected by diss. shield, bone wall, dim shield (even if they steal your shield), and those pesky shields like ice/time/dark shield. It's probably one of my favourite decks to play.

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If you guys want a solution to Parallel Universe, make it so they cannot PU a creature right after it is played. So the opponent has 1 turn to poison it, RT it, freeze it, firebolt it, owl-eye it, giving it less chance/reason (why copy a frozen dragon). This prevents 5 PUs on 1 phase dragon on one turn, and it doesn't completely nullify PU.

EDIT: I also thing ktchong's idea of linking PU to the original creature, and having their HP linked (destroying original destroys the copies) is a good idea. His chaos shield idea is very good too.

There's a "Mark of Fire" card?!?

EDIT: And I could spin for Mark of Fire!

Hm. I really do not think either Dissipation Shield, Parallel Universe or Bone Wall is overpowered. Either one has its weaknesses and can be overcome.

Instead of nerfing either one, I'd like to see new cards to boost the strength of other elements.

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Originally Posted by Disaru

There's 4 ways around dissipation shield:
1) Steal/Deflag it
2) Poison/Firebolt/Icebolt/Drain Life
3) Momentum
4) Break it by outdamaging quantum pillars, or destroying quantum pillars

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5) Output more damages than the dissipation shield + pillars can absorb.

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Originally Posted by ktchong

5) Output more damages than the dissipation shield + pillars can absorb.

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That was number 4.

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Originally Posted by ktchong

Why is it a horrible card for Entropy?

It's really the only barely good card for Entropy.

Right now, Entropy is a really weak element.

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I beg to differ (I play an Entropy/Rainbow deck).

Maxwell's demon pwns most dragons if the demon is already in play when the dragon comes out. And combined with a Chaos Seed, the demon can often take out many more creatures. It can also drastically slow down a Firefly Queen deck, nuking the small bugs for 2 quantum each and letting you focus the more serious attacks on the queens themselves.

Mutation is chancey, but when it comes through it really comes through. 12/9 creature with immaterial or dive? Had it happen more than once. The weapon skills can also appear on mutants, such as creatures with the ability to steal or destroy. On the other hand, you might get a 2/3 Graboid with the burrow skill or a 1/0 Skeleton.
And if the opponent has a 10 attack or stronger creature you can't get rid of some other way,. Mutation will often knock it down to an Abomination, 5/5 with no skill. It's also a good card for upgrading 1 point monsters of other colors, or turning those Photons/Sparks into stronger fighters.

Purple Dragon isn't fantastic, but it isn't a joke, either.

Discord I don't have, so can't really comment about.

I appreciate your attempt to defend Entropy, but you don't really feel that it's competitve with an Aether or Darkness deck, do you? I'm not putting down your choice of element, I think it's awesome you're playing Entropy (though even you admit that it's actually Rainbow with an Entropy-heavy slant). I think an objective observer HAS to conclude that mono Entropy, Life, Light, etc, are just not competitive choices right now.

That being said, I agree with your statements on Maxwell's Demon and the Purple Dragon. I feel Mutation could potentially be a metagame-changer for Entropy if it were made into a playable card, but right now, it's trash. Yes, you might get lucky with it once in a while, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Along with Life (my original choice, which I had to abandon since it was so weak), I would love to see Entropy become a valid color choice.